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Originally posted by 91tpiTA Yeah, the diverter valve. I live in Michigan, which does not require emissions testing.
So I can remove the diverter valve? What does the line from the smog pump do going to the diverter valve? If I remove the pump, should I cut that line or plug it? I read the tech article, but it doesn't explain anything further. I want to know what the effects are if I remove the damn diverter valve. I live in MI, so emissions testing is not required. I want to remove this crap from my ride.
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Originally posted by Duck Ok, so this actually means that although the ECU "sees" the difference, it's microscopic enough not to throw a code and therefore not a big enough deal to cause concern ... in other words, the car will continue to operate day-to-day the same as before the AIR system was removed.
No, what I'm telling you is the programmers never expected someone to remove the air system, so they never put a diagnostic routine in to check it. The code simply assumes if it has commanded the solenoid to divert air to the manifold, than it adds 100mv to the o2 swing.
The ECU doesn't "see" the difference, it "assumes" air is supposed to be there, so it ignores the slightly lean condition.
My concern is if this is happening during light load highway mode. Highway mode runs an allready borederline lean condition. I wish traxion had done some testing with a wideband to see what the actual AFR's were during those conditions.
Although I have a wideband o2 on my car, I don't run a '730 / $8D ecm so I can't help you folks. I run $58 in a '749 cuz of the blower.
Originally posted by anesthes No, what I'm telling you is the programmers never expected someone to remove the air system, so they never put a diagnostic routine in to check it. The code simply assumes if it has commanded the solenoid to divert air to the manifold, than it adds 100mv to the o2 swing.
The ECU doesn't "see" the difference, it "assumes" air is supposed to be there, so it ignores the slightly lean condition.
My concern is if this is happening during light load highway mode. Highway mode runs an allready borederline lean condition. I wish traxion had done some testing with a wideband to see what the actual AFR's were during those conditions.
Although I have a wideband o2 on my car, I don't run a '730 / $8D ecm so I can't help you folks. I run $58 in a '749 cuz of the blower. -- Joe
Well, a couple more aspects of this come to mind. Did the programmers address [excuse the pun] the code for export models shipped outside the USA without the AIR system? If not, then it would indicate that although additional air goes to the manifold in cruise conditions, it is not enough to send the O2 readings to the SES range.
About three years ago, when I removed the AIR system from my daily-driver TPI car, I also did a tune-up, including installing new sparkplugs. Once a year, during other routine maintainance, I pull a couple plugs and check the condition. So far the plugs have only shown a normal appearance -- nothing indicating overheating or detonation. So, for me at least, there has been no adverse effects.
A search through the large message database on TGO doesn't indicate removing AIR causes any performance or operational engine or driveability problems.
It would be nice if someone has data to quantify "how much" air is being sent to the manifolds and what the AFR's are in steady cruise conditions with/without AIR. The changes in the AFR's might be small enough to be seen by instruments, but not large enough to be significant.
Otherwise, all we're discussing here is how many angels can dance on the head of a pin...
Originally posted by Duck
[b]Well, a couple more aspects of this come to mind. Did the programmers address [excuse the pun] the code for export models shipped outside the USA without the AIR system? If not, then it would indicate that although additional air goes to the manifold in cruise conditions, it is not enough to send the O2 readings to the SES range.
Yeah, you flip a bit to disable it. The non-us models got different binary masks.
Quote:
About three years ago, when I removed the AIR system from my daily-driver TPI car, I also did a tune-up, including installing new sparkplugs. Once a year, during other routine maintainance, I pull a couple plugs and check the condition. So far the plugs have only shown a normal appearance -- nothing indicating overheating or detonation. So, for me at least, there has been no adverse effects.
Without wideband testing, noone really knows how far off the mixture gets during these conditions. Could be minor.
But here is some food for thought. I had a bad weld on my y-pipe. My wideband 02 was reading 19.1 afr at idle.. I fixed the leak (pinholes really). wideband now reads 12:1..
So. Who knows? I say, to be on the safe side, if your gonna remove the air to the manifolds than flip the bit in the code.
ok quick Q for you guys. i tried sifting through most but couldnt find what i was looking for so here goes. i have a 92 rs had it for 6 nonths or so now has 180k on the l03 prev owner cut out the cat but the air tube is still hanging there where they cut it out. my question is should i take off the air pump off or is ok to just leave it pumping air into nothing?
i have heard that if you take the tubes off of the pump right at the pump, it might rust/corrode and start resisting the belt from spinning thus reducing power and so on. but i cant imagine that blowing air under the car would do anything. i took mine out just cuz i thought it was ugly and bulky, and the original air tubes didnt fit up to my new headers correctly.
since iv had my AIR off iv had no problems at all, no engine codes at all, so i would say it is not going to be a problem if somebody wants to. i passed ohio e-check without them also.
alright that sounds good but is there a way to disconnect the pump so it stops pumping air or it just doesnt really matter and leave it be?
Probably doesn't matter, but if leaving it to chug away for nothing bothers you, just get the replacement "export" pully or gut the pump so the vanes are removed.
alright that sounds good but is there a way to disconnect the pump so it stops pumping air or it just doesnt really matter and leave it be?
You could just remove it and get a shorter belt. As long as your state doesnt do visual inspection, you will be fine without it. You'll pick up some power too, but it will only be negligable..say 3hp maybe.
Check the tech articles on the home page, there is a link there for how to remove it and what size belt to use.
since my cat is plugged, i figure i'd replace it with a non AIR cat, and this would be a good time to remove the AIR system. honestly, i'm more so interested in doing it to make it easier to do spark plugs.
is there anything wrong with just leaving the pump on there and just putting a 'breather filter' on the end of the metal pipe that would normally connect to the bottom of the diverter valve?
since my cat is plugged, i figure i'd replace it with a non AIR cat, and this would be a good time to remove the AIR system. honestly, i'm more so interested in doing it to make it easier to do spark plugs.
is there anything wrong with just leaving the pump on there and just putting a 'breather filter' on the end of the metal pipe that would normally connect to the bottom of the diverter valve?
Other than loosing parasitic horsepower because the pump is rotation mass, I can't for see a problem.....but I would recommend removal of the pump tp clear up some much need underhood room and makes it look cleaner underneath the hood.
since my cat is plugged, i figure i'd replace it with a non AIR cat, and this would be a good time to remove the AIR system. honestly, i'm more so interested in doing it to make it easier to do spark plugs.
is there anything wrong with just leaving the pump on there and just putting a 'breather filter' on the end of the metal pipe that would normally connect to the bottom of the diverter valve?
Rather than spend money on the cat, why not just rod the plugged one instead? After all, removing the AIR makes the system non-compliant to begin with.
slayer_taunu, are you in Fort Worth, or boston?
in Texas, if you remove your AIR system your going to have problems passing the visual part of the emissions test. without a working cat your not going to pass the tail pipe part of it.
there isn't much difference in price between a cat with the AIR tube on it & one without it.
i'm now in fort worth. in 10 years of driving a car, i have never once had someone do a 'visual' inspection, even when going to a random place where i didnt 'know' someone. i guess i'm just lucky enough to always go to lazy mechanics! i am not concerned about that aspect.
i do still need to pass the sniffer though... and from my hours and hours of reading on this site, it appears that as long as i buy a decent quality non-AIR cat, and make sure the system is all warmed up before running it, then it will pass.
91camaroRS305: as far as the pump itself, i will eventually get the delete pulley, but since i'm scrounging for funds to do the mandatory repairs, i just wanted to know if it was safe to put it off for a few weeks without damaging anything (including the pump itself incase i ever need to put it back on).
__________________ 88 GTA L98/A4
01 Firehawk Trans Am LS1/T56 ΜΩΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!
ok so what does the A.I.R. system look like so i can take it out because i dont want extra clutter if i dont need it when i twin turbo my ride. im getting a new exhaust setup anyway because im going from 2.8l to a 383 so obviously my setup wont fit the 8. and a brand new cat should get me running cleaner then my stock cat with A.I.R. and some rusty pipes. also does the smog pump need to be in there and will i be able to just ake it out with out any problem on a tpi??
The smog pump is the pump with the pulley which is the one underneath the Air Conditioning condenser, and the diverter box and valve is the black box that is attached and is found stemming off of the smog pump next to the passenger side valve cover. Do a google image search youll find it.
I have the same car. What you did should not create any problem at all. I completely deleted the air pipes from the system when I went with my new headers and exhaust. The fastener that holds the air pipe onto the engine block on the passenger side rear was the worst one to remove. Now, I just have to remove my air box and the air pipe/cat delete will be complete.
__________________ 92RealSwift-All stock except for these mods: Hooker 2460 coated shorties-(non air), Hooker y-pipe modified for a 3" exhaust system, cat delete, Flowmaster muffler w/ dual outlets. Hypertech cool fan switch.
92Z-28-Edelbrock headers-3" system w/cat to Dynomax S/S muffler w/ dual outlets, K&N air filters.
And does anybody know anything about the egr code at 70 MPH because I have the same problem along with two other members of my car club and none of us can figure out why.
Its the EGR heat sensor, change that and it wont come on anymore. It only triggers a code at a constant speed for something like 3 minutes steady running, hence the 70 mph trigger.
Well, I think Five7 is right at least on my 1984 Z28 carbed. The A.I.R. system on my car only supplys air to the exh. manifolds in open loop and to the converter in closed loop. There is also a divert valve for high RPM, rich cond., check eng. light and high vacuum that diverts the pump air to the air cleaner or to the atmosphere.
um, heres my question. a buddy of mine and i were talking about this on my car, removing the cat, air tubes and smog pump. he had mentioned something about burning up the exhaust valves. is it safe to pull the smog pump and air tubes? cause i thought the air tubes were just for emissions.
I haven't had that stuff on my ride for years. In fact when MN was testing I still passed. Test Max = HC/220 CO/1.20. My readings = HC/027 CO/0.00 Never burnt a valve.
Mine runs fine with air and dual cats. The air pump is hidden, so I really don't see it. All I see is two 5/8" hoses to the hooker long tube headers. (50 state legal CARB approved long tubes).
I still don't understand why some of you guys rip that stuff out.
"it clutters up the engine bay!" Jeez, what did your alternator call you and tell you he's claustrophobic?
"It saves me Horse power!" You're still slower than crap. Build a new engine and keep the 02 injection.
I still don't understand why some of you guys rip that stuff out.
Coz that nasty stuff is better out than in. If you are overly fussy like some of us, then its worth the effort. Less weight (abeit tiny loss), less clutter, easier to work in the engine bay.
Its the engine bay version of the KISS principle.
"it clutters up the engine bay!" Jeez, what did your alternator call you and tell you he's claustrophobic?
LMMFAO!
__________________ 1998 Trans Am: Mystic Blue w/Tan Leather, Automatic, T-Tops, Daily Driver.... 1990 Trans Am GTA: Black w/Black Leather, 5-Speed, T-Tops, Few Mods.... 1989 Trans Am TTA: White w/Tan Leather, Automatic, T-Tops, Garage Queen.... 1986 Chevy Camaro V6: Blue w/Black Cloth, Hardtop, 355-TPI Swap, 700R4, MS-II....
My 86 TPI 350 failed misserably without the smog pump working. When I put it back on it passed with flying collors. I just take the belt off after my emissions test...
Hey, name's Matt. I have an 89 2.8 Camaro 5spd. I have AIR on my car. (Heard it was an option on some) I have a cracked manifold so inside the cabin it smells really bad. I was planning on removing the AIR because the girl I bought it from capped off the cat so the air is only goin into the manifolds. I was planning on getting the Pacessetter headers that come with the new y-pipe. And get a new high flow cat. Let me know what you guys think. I would greatly appreciate it if anyone could tell me exactly how to take the AIR off. And my air pump is below my alternator. Probably different since it's a 6. Main thing that confuses me is where to detach the dirvertor valve. Taking the lines out seems easy. Do they sell block off plates to block off the dirvertor to the EGR? Also, will the AIR delete pully fit on the 6 the same as the 8? Lemme know if you guys have any suggestions on weather I should buy a different brand, or anything. I'm open to all suggestions. Thanks.
so i plan on removing my cat an the whole AIR system and from what iv read i shouldnt have any problems right? an if i just pop the cat off i can plug the pipe for AIR that goes to it right i know the answers are in ehre i jsut wanna make sure
If you have a visual test you will fail without a cat or AIR system. Yes you can remove them but you will be putting out more smog from your exhaust and polluting our air. Not to mention violating federal emissions laws. Its your choice.
I just removed the AIR sysem last weekend and NO problems. Only thing I left on was the AIR tubes in the manifold and just bought 1/2" pipe caps for the main collectors and cat pipe. I have pics but it's on my camera which was left down in Indy, maybe I can get them up tomorrow?
hello everyone. i have taken off pretty much all the A.I.R hoses. i took off my exhaust manifold and such. but i was wonderin if i had to plug the pipes that the hoses whet to in my firewall that go into my dash. and the one on my radiator. and if so how to do that. also i an going to put headers with out air on my car but i don't know which ones will fit. it looks like no headers will fit cuz of the starter and everything else. any mods i would have to do to be able to put them in? also how do you take of the smog pump and the A/C system. any help would be great thanks.
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you can email me at baseballa5757@yahoo.com also.
Last edited by Camaroman575; 09-23-2008 at 02:00 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
The only air hoses you have go from the diverter valve to the air tubes on your manifolds. the hoses that go behind the dash go to your heater core which is part of your cooling system and is filled with coolant! you don't wanna take those out amigo lol. as for the headers, they will fit. you might have to get a mini starter but if you get shorty headers it will fit just fine. for the a/c and smog pump you will have to take off the bracket(s) that bolt onto the engine block. the a/c is pretty easy to get off. I tried to take off my smog pump but it's kinda hard since theres a bolt behind the pulley and my pully won't let me unbolt it lol
I put Hooker shorties on mine (see sig) and had no problem with starter or anything. Did not even have to unbolt the passenger side motor mount like the Hooker directions said to. Just purchase the Hooker shorties and ask for Non-air tubes. SMOG PUMP- There is tech article on here about how to remove your smog pump and use a different serpentine belt. Very easy to do. A/C-Don't know why you want to remove this-really helps me in S. FLorida. Even in most other states, it gets hot in the summer.
__________________ 92RealSwift-All stock except for these mods: Hooker 2460 coated shorties-(non air), Hooker y-pipe modified for a 3" exhaust system, cat delete, Flowmaster muffler w/ dual outlets. Hypertech cool fan switch.
92Z-28-Edelbrock headers-3" system w/cat to Dynomax S/S muffler w/ dual outlets, K&N air filters.
Build a new engine and keep the 02 injection.
