91tpiTA

So I can remove the diverter valve? What does the line from the smog pump do going to the diverter valve? If I remove the pump, should I cut that line or plug it? I read the tech article, but it doesn't explain anything further. I want to know what the effects are if I remove the damn diverter valve. I live in MI, so emissions testing is not required. I want to remove this crap from my ride.

anesthes

No, what I'm telling you is the programmers never expected someone to remove the air system, so they never put a diagnostic routine in to check it. The code simply assumes if it has commanded the solenoid to divert air to the manifold, than it adds 100mv to the o2 swing.

The ECU doesn't "see" the difference, it "assumes" air is supposed to be there, so it ignores the slightly lean condition.

My concern is if this is happening during light load highway mode. Highway mode runs an allready borederline lean condition. I wish traxion had done some testing with a wideband to see what the actual AFR's were during those conditions.

Although I have a wideband o2 on my car, I don't run a '730 / $8D ecm so I can't help you folks. I run $58 in a '749 cuz of the blower.

-- Joe

__________________
'87 Corvette - Singleplane, TFS heads, 10:1, Crane 109831 cam, steel crank, scat h-beams, true dual exhaust, 91-96 body conversion, ZF6 Trans, Powerdyne Supercharger, Grand Sport rims.

Duck

Well, a couple more aspects of this come to mind. Did the programmers address [excuse the pun] the code for export models shipped outside the USA without the AIR system? If not, then it would indicate that although additional air goes to the manifold in cruise conditions, it is not enough to send the O2 readings to the SES range.

About three years ago, when I removed the AIR system from my daily-driver TPI car, I also did a tune-up, including installing new sparkplugs. Once a year, during other routine maintainance, I pull a couple plugs and check the condition. So far the plugs have only shown a normal appearance -- nothing indicating overheating or detonation. So, for me at least, there has been no adverse effects.

A search through the large message database on TGO doesn't indicate removing AIR causes any performance or operational engine or driveability problems.

It would be nice if someone has data to quantify "how much" air is being sent to the manifolds and what the AFR's are in steady cruise conditions with/without AIR. The changes in the AFR's might be small enough to be seen by instruments, but not large enough to be significant.

Otherwise, all we're discussing here is how many angels can dance on the head of a pin...

__________________
Duck_Pearl City, HI
87 IROC-Z 5.7, 92 Z28 5.7 25th Anniversary, 92 RS 25th Anniversary, 91 RS Ragtop

anesthes

Yeah, you flip a bit to disable it. The non-us models got different binary masks.


Without wideband testing, noone really knows how far off the mixture gets during these conditions. Could be minor.

But here is some food for thought. I had a bad weld on my y-pipe. My wideband 02 was reading 19.1 afr at idle.. I fixed the leak (pinholes really). wideband now reads 12:1..

So. Who knows? I say, to be on the safe side, if your gonna remove the air to the manifolds than flip the bit in the code.


--Joe

91tpiTA

Dang, how much did you sell your Camaro for? Wish I could have bought it.

FireBirdKnight

cats life is reduced with removal

killa_b

ok quick Q for you guys. i tried sifting through most but couldnt find what i was looking for so here goes. i have a 92 rs had it for 6 nonths or so now has 180k on the l03 prev owner cut out the cat but the air tube is still hanging there where they cut it out. my question is should i take off the air pump off or is ok to just leave it pumping air into nothing?

Nitsuj86Iroc

i have heard that if you take the tubes off of the pump right at the pump, it might rust/corrode and start resisting the belt from spinning thus reducing power and so on. but i cant imagine that blowing air under the car would do anything. i took mine out just cuz i thought it was ugly and bulky, and the original air tubes didnt fit up to my new headers correctly.


since iv had my AIR off iv had no problems at all, no engine codes at all, so i would say it is not going to be a problem if somebody wants to. i passed ohio e-check without them also.

killa_b

alright that sounds good but is there a way to disconnect the pump so it stops pumping air or it just doesnt really matter and leave it be?

Duck

Probably doesn't matter, but if leaving it to chug away for nothing bothers you, just get the replacement "export" pully or gut the pump so the vanes are removed.

__________________
Duck_Pearl City, HI
87 IROC-Z 5.7, 92 Z28 5.7 25th Anniversary, 92 RS 25th Anniversary, 91 RS Ragtop

GuitarJunki17

You could just remove it and get a shorter belt. As long as your state doesnt do visual inspection, you will be fine without it. You'll pick up some power too, but it will only be negligable..say 3hp maybe.

Check the tech articles on the home page, there is a link there for how to remove it and what size belt to use.

-Cheers

killa_b

oh thanks a bunch you guys rock

GuitarJunki17

Anything to help Third Gen bretheren

slayer_taunu

since my cat is plugged, i figure i'd replace it with a non AIR cat, and this would be a good time to remove the AIR system. honestly, i'm more so interested in doing it to make it easier to do spark plugs.

is there anything wrong with just leaving the pump on there and just putting a 'breather filter' on the end of the metal pipe that would normally connect to the bottom of the diverter valve?

91CamaroRS305

Other than loosing parasitic horsepower because the pump is rotation mass, I can't for see a problem.....but I would recommend removal of the pump tp clear up some much need underhood room and makes it look cleaner underneath the hood.

Duck

Rather than spend money on the cat, why not just rod the plugged one instead? After all, removing the AIR makes the system non-compliant to begin with.

DENN_SHAH

slayer_taunu, are you in Fort Worth, or boston?
in Texas, if you remove your AIR system your going to have problems passing the visual part of the emissions test. without a working cat your not going to pass the tail pipe part of it.

there isn't much difference in price between a cat with the AIR tube on it & one without it.

slayer_taunu

i'm now in fort worth. in 10 years of driving a car, i have never once had someone do a 'visual' inspection, even when going to a random place where i didnt 'know' someone. i guess i'm just lucky enough to always go to lazy mechanics! i am not concerned about that aspect.

i do still need to pass the sniffer though... and from my hours and hours of reading on this site, it appears that as long as i buy a decent quality non-AIR cat, and make sure the system is all warmed up before running it, then it will pass.

91camaroRS305: as far as the pump itself, i will eventually get the delete pulley, but since i'm scrounging for funds to do the mandatory repairs, i just wanted to know if it was safe to put it off for a few weeks without damaging anything (including the pump itself incase i ever need to put it back on).

__________________
88 GTA L98/A4
01 Firehawk Trans Am LS1/T56
ΜΩΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!

turbochargedrs

ok so what does the A.I.R. system look like so i can take it out because i dont want extra clutter if i dont need it when i twin turbo my ride. im getting a new exhaust setup anyway because im going from 2.8l to a 383 so obviously my setup wont fit the 8. and a brand new cat should get me running cleaner then my stock cat with A.I.R. and some rusty pipes. also does the smog pump need to be in there and will i be able to just ake it out with out any problem on a tpi??

GuitarJunki17

The smog pump is the pump with the pulley which is the one underneath the Air Conditioning condenser, and the diverter box and valve is the black box that is attached and is found stemming off of the smog pump next to the passenger side valve cover. Do a google image search youll find it.

abyliks

ok so i kinda just skimed this thread so forgive me if this has been asked already

just cutting the AIR pipe right by the cat wont do anything for it at all? car will run/idle the same correct or inccorect?

i read throught the tech article but it really just showed how to route the belt, how do i remove everything and where is it all located

GuitarJunki17

What I did was cut off the pipe, and welded a screw to the remaining length of pipe on the cat shut. No problems thus far for me.

abyliks

should of mentioned im a TBI not tpi

hot92RS

I have the same car. What you did should not create any problem at all. I completely deleted the air pipes from the system when I went with my new headers and exhaust. The fastener that holds the air pipe onto the engine block on the passenger side rear was the worst one to remove. Now, I just have to remove my air box and the air pipe/cat delete will be complete.

__________________
92RealSwift-All stock except for these mods: Hooker 2460 coated shorties-(non air), Hooker y-pipe modified for a 3" exhaust system, cat delete, Flowmaster muffler w/ dual outlets. Hypertech cool fan switch.
92Z-28-Edelbrock headers-3" system w/cat to Dynomax S/S muffler w/ dual outlets, K&N air filters.

abyliks

you were right, i cut the cat off, and just left all the air pipes just hanging there cause i cant really get them all off, car runs fine though

prostreetpop

Its the EGR heat sensor, change that and it wont come on anymore. It only triggers a code at a constant speed for something like 3 minutes steady running, hence the 70 mph trigger.

Auggie

Well, I think Five7 is right at least on my 1984 Z28 carbed. The A.I.R. system on my car only supplys air to the exh. manifolds in open loop and to the converter in closed loop. There is also a divert valve for high RPM, rich cond., check eng. light and high vacuum that diverts the pump air to the air cleaner or to the atmosphere.

Auggie