Quote: Originally Posted by xpndbl3 i just ran two mandrel bent pipes out the side of my camaro tonight in front of the rear tires and it helped compared to turndowns. BUT you can still tell my car is cam'n and it's still loud compared to how I wanted it....albeit a much more improved tone and not echoing off the pavement at least. I'd say 20% quieter than turndowns. Also I'm running an H-pipe as well like always. Would you be able to take some pics? I'd like to see that. I'm still debating between using longtubes and do up the exhaust like dennisbernal91z did, and if it's too loud i could simply do what you did and route it from the side. Or i could simply use 2 sidepipes using shorty headers instead.

I will look into the long classic tube mufflers. If I can get 2 under there that are long, and still have the ability to add mufflers after all is said and done. Then I will go that route. I would like at least one more opinion that they do quiet the car down a lot. Just for piece of mind. At least have 2 people saying thte same thing, before I spend my $. Thanks for all the help guys.... I should have the car back in a couple weeks now.



The one wall that my paintjob has hit, is I need a DS door. Anyone have one?

no pics of it, but instead of turndowns like the pics dennis put out, i just ran the pipes out the side stopping an inch before the ground effects under the car...nothing really fancy about them

The classic tube/chambered mufflers will not be quieter than a similar sized glasspack, there is just more to a glasspack to absorb more sound.

WRT to loss, it should be pretty obvious, your tune will change if there is significantly more loss and you should be able to determine the actual loss by tuning it right for both combinations and comparing how much less fuel you’re using at WOT.

I guess I still don’t understand why you don’t just go with a full cat back on the car… a decent dual 3” Y into a single 3” over the axle with something like a dynomax 17221 and a single 3” outlet will flow more then well enough for 500hp without a significant loss (if done right I’d bet that there would be less then a 5hp difference between what you have now and that setup), and will be downright quiet

Well for the third time now....

My fuel set up is installed where the stock muffler went. It would take a TON of work to find new places for the pump, 2 filters and lines. Not to mention the $ needed to make new lines so it all intalls as nice as it is right now. I really like where it is now, and that is where it is going to stay. Very easy to troubleshoot and gravity pulls the fuel down to the pump which is exactly what it wants.

That is why I can't just go with a standard cat-back. If could, I would, but I can't... as the saying goes.

ALSO... the damn sphoon x-member doesn't really provide room for Lontubes and a Y-pipe. The collectors are aimed right at the mounting flages. That happen to be huge steel plates.

With all this said, I have no new info here for today.... I just wanted to it to be 100% clear that no cat-back or "normal" Y-pipe will work. If they would I would have allready bought one.





With that said.... About 10 posts back i said something about making a Y, and going over the axle but with a muffler in a different location than stock. I guess no one saw that...


Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all the help and advice. And I hope the people that have been posting in this thread keep helping me till the end. Thanks again

In order from loudest to quietest, Bullets, Chambered Tube Mufflers, Glasspacks. The glasspacks have a smaller core so they'll be a little quieter; there are 2 types of chambered tube mufflers, the old turbo tube, and the newer classic chambered muffler; the newer classic chambered muffler should be just as quiet as a glasspack if you get the 2in core type, but you can go up to a 2.5in core and get a longer muffler this should do it. Now if you want to spend a little less and be a little quieter with a loss of performance get a set of glasspacks. My bet's still on the long 2.5in core Classic Chambered Mufflers with an H pipe and as long of tips as you can tuck.

OK so here is what I am thinking....

I want it to be able to be added to if I still want it quieter, so here we go...

for the grand total price of $241 with shipping from summit (I HAVE NOT ORDERED YET, but this is my best plan so far)

-3"to 2.5" reduces-$17
-X pipe kit in 2.5"-$75
-2 classic chambered muffers. longest 2.5" they have.-$59
-and one 180* mandrel bend that I will make turn outs with-$20

Price is not a huge issue with me, but it doesn't hurt that is will cost less than $300. And finally be quiet and flow well. And if this is still too loud, then I can find my way over the axle with some more pipe, some bends and a couple mufflers back there.


What do ya think?

That's the ticket, post up some results with this setup. I think you meant 2.5 reducers, 2in would be a mismatch.

yeah, thats what i ment. I edited it. thx.

Will do, I think it will be awsome. I am exited. Too bad i have to wait about a month to build it. Damn paintjob. haha. Oh well. At least I know what to try and find deals on, on ebay. Although I doubt I will find anything.

Thanks for all the help guys. I will do a FULL tech article on my cardomain site. With pics and all. Hopefully this will work and sound awsome, so that others can try too, and have another alternative.

Oh man plz post some stuff here too. cardomain sucks big time, its 100 times worse then this site when it comes to banners and pop up spy ware stuff.
I wish that site would die, hehehehhe

But glad you have found some options.

Side note also, te he he te he, neighbor kid I mentioned in an earlier post....
I noticed today that his front end is sitting in the garbage That hot foot already caught up with him.

You will find classic chambered mufflers on eBay but these are the old turbo tube mufflers not the same as the mufflers offered by Classic Chambered Exhaust Inc. on there web site. The ones on ebay only have 2in cores and they're not louvered but perforated. I'de definetly go with the 2.5in powersticks from classicchambered.com if I were you. As for an H or an X pipe, there's a good chance you'll be able to score one of those on eBay you can also probably pick up a 90 degree mandrel bend cheap to get the exhaust out from under the car a little smoother.

Yeah, I will def get the mufflers off the powerstick site. I will check ebay every week for 2.5" madrel bends. Maybe get lucky and find reducers too. Who knows. Oh and yeah, I am def going to run 90* bends to get the sound out from under the car.

If it is still too loud for me, then I will worry about going over the axle, but for now. I am goin with the side exits. Hidden away of course. I never really liked the displaying of the pipes, unless is is out the back or on a stingray.


My main goal is to have a nice 450 RWHP, 6 speed, with a "fun" shot of N20 that I can drive anyday that it is nice out. And take up to the track a dozen times a year. Also be able to drive it at night if I have to.

I go out in Boston a lot and can laph just thinking about how funny it would be to cruise down a big city and all the sky scrapers, having that chavy rumble shaking a few blocks. haha. Then make a quick getaway, before the cops find me. Maybe someday....

well, if it was me, i would:

replace the spohn crossmember with one that has double humps for exhaust clearance.

put a Ypipe in... but this time allow ground clearance... leave some cutouts on there.. E cutouts if you want.... or just regular ones... cap em for the street.

re-do part of the fuel system allowing more clearance... ive seen sumped cars that have megasize fuel pumps still have exhaust room.

put a quiet exhaust on... you now have room for a REAL muffler.... personally, i run a stock GM 99 Z28 muffler... its quiet for the motor, but its not really quiet... and it sounds good.

put a flange on the muffler to drop that 30lbs of deadweight at the track, and to allow more fuel system access..


now you've lost no performance at the track, improved ground clearance, you can talk around your car, and if you spring for the E cutouts, you can still be loud and annoying when you want.... and then be quiet for when you're entering your neighborhood...

OK, well let me start off by saying. Thanks for the input. But I do have a couple issues with some of your ideas:

"replace the spohn crossmember with one that has double humps for exhaust clearance."

- I think you mean MAKE, a x-member with humps for clearance. There is definetly no double humped, spohn x-member made for an adjustable TQ arm.

I might consider it, but Don't really wanna be notching stuff like that. On to the next point.

"put a Ypipe in... but this time allow ground clearance... leave some cutouts on there.. E cutouts if you want.... or just regular ones... cap em for the street."

- I had a cutout on there before. I really don't like them. They take up too much room and I will just never use it. I live about an hour from the nearest track. This is not a track car, it is a street car. Maybe someday if I am bored and really want a cut out, I will deal with putting another e-cutout in. My last setup had one. just not for me. Realy eats up ground clearance. Oh and I really would rather stay with duals if I can and avoid the Y pipe. No real reason appart form the fact that after 3.5 years and 25 grand in the car, i would at least like to get rid of the damn Y-pipe.

"re-do part of the fuel system allowing more clearance... ive seen sumped cars that have megasize fuel pumps still have exhaust room."

- I am not saying that I CAN'T put all the fuel stuff someplace else. I am saying it has exelent access right now. It is in the car right now. If I did move it, I would have to buy more hose, more fittings and so forth. Not that doing so is a big deal, but when it comes down to doing it that way and another way, that both work. I am not gonna do it that way if I don't have to. And right now. I don't have to.

"put a quiet exhaust on... you now have room for a REAL muffler.... "

- This thread is about putting a quiet exhaust on. Thats what I have been trying to design. Saying, put a quiet exhaust on, doesn't really help anyone. I think you ment to say, put a stock style exhaust on.

As for taking off the muffler at the track. I really wouldn't care that much. As, like I said before, this is a street car, and I would wanna know what it can do in its street trim, not stripped down for track day.



All in all I thank you for the input, like I said before, but none of it really helps. I know about cutouts, humped x-members, and stock style muffler. I also know I can put my fuel stuff someplace else.
If I wanted to go that route I wouldn't gave made this thread. I want to stay before the axle, and keep duals and side exits. Ever since I was in my early teens I have thought that side exits were cool, and I am going to make a solid attempt to incorporate them into my setup.








one final note, that might not be being considered. i have a fuel cell going through the floor of the axle hump. If I go over the axle like a stock style set up. It is going to get very close over there, and need to be heat wrapped quite a bit I would imagine.

Very useful info here. I know there have been a lot of things mentioned, but I don't know if anyone mentioned simply angling the turn-downs 45*. Striaght into the ground is gonna make them loud as a mother.

no problem.. btw, dont take what i say too harshly either.. i sound mean online.. lol.

without realizing it, yes.. i mean make. or modify.
now when you say notching, are you thinking about cutting up and making a new "spohn style" one? if so, then you're right.. notching would be bad.

its only a crossmember, and im talking about making a whole new one, similar to the T56 crossmember "drews" on this board makes... (do a search on his name for pics)
that plus some small welding of the mount, and its really not that bad.
besides, ive found that the only way to get something PERFECT on a car is to make it or modify something else.. nothing bolts on perfect.

but in anycase.... if you're happy with your current ground clearance, you can skip this part.


ground clearance? room?
you're doing something wrong.
a cutout is nothing more then a header collector welded onto your exhaust.
go out and buy some header collectors, and weld them on wherever there is room.. they dont take up ANY more ground clearance. at all. they do allow full flow for the track.
they are not intended to "sound cool" or anything of that nature. they're just to go fast. anyone who makes their exhaust choices based solely on "sounding cool"..... is a tool IMO.. lol

as far as the duals VS Ypipe thing... you say it like the Ypipe is bad...? it flows enough to get me and my friends (who run a single cutout in the Y when they run cutouts) into the high 10s... i dont see how its holding you back.
its smaller, and it fits better.... duals goes right back to that tool statement of "i wanna be cool, so im going to make a poor choice in every aspect except sounding cool".. you get no performance advantage, packaging difficulties, and as you have found out... you cant fit a decent size muffler in there... this is one of the cases where size matters.. and not just in tubing dia...
im not trying to come off as harsh, but thats just my full opinion on it.

well, you dont have to move it around alot.
i honestly kinda one WHY a "street car" has this stuff since you just said you dont goto the track too often, but in anycase you can work around anything... even with that stuff there, i bet theres STILL mroe room then under the car.
dont forget, you dont NEED a crossflow muffler back there.. a standard muffler works.. you wont have dual tips, but fake dual tips are gay anyway. lol.


by real muffler, i mean one designed to reduce sound output. the kind that are under normal cars... are a normal size.
i can leave the choice to you, but even a cheap eagle knockoff of a OEM muffler works... so does the classic glass mat style.... or a dynomax or something like that.
you have room for a big metal box back there... you dont HAVE To hang it like OEM either... its obvious you're willing to mod stuff, so stick a box under there and mock somehting up.. im sure you can make a heatshield and clear everything....


yea, i thought that was cool when i was younger too... but i learned and realized its really a stupid idea.. LOL.
the ONLY way to make that work ina reasonable way, is to mod the floorpan.
and if you're willing and capable of doing that..... you also wouldnt need this thread, and you'd have a exhaust channel chopped in there now.
overall, its just a bad idea. the ONLY good point and saving grace of the entire concept is...."it looks cool"
while im all for looking cool... if its not reasonably functional, its in the same catagory as TVs in mudflaps and spinning rims on a stationary car.


one single piece of sheetmetal can cure that easily. heatshields are very effective, and exhaust at the rear of the car doesnt get that hot anyway.

Well, again. i do thank you for the input.


Now I have less issues with what you said, but i still have some.

The e-cutout I tried was very big. I was pretty expansive. The flange wasn't the problem, it was the electric motor and the way it extended sideways from the flange in a very large and bulky way. I moded the floor to fit it, but it still sucked.

I am aware that heat sheilds are effective. That is what I plan on running over my fuel set up if I DO end up going over the axle.

The one thig to remember is that I do want this to sound mean, when I open it up. Maybe I will fabricate a Y.

If I do go that route. I guess I could go:

Reducers--->2.5" tubing--->merge the pipes togeather and use a 3" pipe when they meat--->then go back and use one long classic tube muffler, and the bullets if possible, and dump it there, right before the axle. And if it is still to loud then go over the axle and make a heat sheild and use a full size box muffler with a single 3" in and a single 3" out.

That should be quiet enough. I just really dont wanna loose too much power.

I am gonna get it dynoed with the set up I have now, and once I build the set up I described, I will get it dynoed again.

If I loose more than 15Hp to this Y-pipe and smaller tubing. I am gonna go back to using 2.5" duals, or have them merge into a 4" or something.

Wow, I'm winded after reading all that!

First of all, the dude turning down the exhaust before the diff. sounds like he is trying to do his exhaust in his garage, & maybe doesn't have the $$ right now to do a complete system or go to a muffler shop & pay someone to do the rest of the system. ANY muffler you put in the intermediate pipe area & turn down (or out) in front of the diff is going to be LOUD!!! You gotta get the exhaust to the rear of the car to have anything that is going to be a reasonable sound level.

Point two: The stock-type single in / dual out muffler design (cross flow) is a crappy muffler design & very restrictive in it's OE configuration. The only way to get better flow with one of these designs is to incorporate larger internal flow tubes, & flow directors of some type internally.

Personally, I would put a long straight-through 3" muffler in the intermediate pipe (I think you know what I'd use), & then split & run a pair of 2.5" tail pipes out the back. For REALLY good sound, plumb in a pair of short 2.5" (you know what kind) mufflers at the rear, then exit. As far as mandrel bends & buying a "system" from someone like Jegs or Summit, that's hooey. This is what muffler shops & Ben Pearson & Huth pipe benders are for. A 3" straight intermediate pipe & a pair of 2.5" tail pipes with some compression bends are not going to hurt your performance at all. You should be able to find a good competent muffler shop to do all the labor for you for under $300.00.

Cheapie turbo mufflers (like the Thrush) are garbage. The only reason Tenneco keeps the "Thrush California Turbos" is for muffler shops. When a customer visits a muffler shop with his muffler falling off & says: "Put on the cheapest turbo muffler you have" - he gets a California Turbo. 2 small internal flow tubes (& thin 18-gauge to boot), no packing, & no flow directors. Life expectancy designed-in of 24 months. Also, Dynomax Bullets are barely glasspacks - they are good for a decibel or two & that's it. They flow well, but they don't tune at all or take out much noise.

If you're on a budget, you're on a budget. But anything exiting under the middle of the car is going to be super loud unless you cork it. Funnel cones & discs are all adding backpressure. The more of this stuff you add, the more you are multiplying backpressure. Do enough of it & you'll hurt your engine.