CarterCarbureto

iTrader: (1)

I have seen several threads, saying what will happen when you remove your Air system, but I havent seen any explaining what happenes when you removed your EGR.

And, HOW do you removed your air system, and the egr system, properly.

I apoligize for any spelling errors, I just got back from the hospital, and im a little out of it , anyways, thanks for your help ^_^

jer4251

iTrader: (6)

well on my LT1 there was a metal hose comming from the back of the intake to the top of one of the manifolds, just recirculates the exhaust back through the intake to help heat it up i believe. some1 correct me if im worng. basicly u just unbolt the hose on both ends or just crimp the lines.

its been a while since ive done it. the air system is a compressor on your pulley system on the lewer left hand side on a 3rd gen i believe, u remove the pump and the hoses comming from it and black off whereever they lead to.

i want to do this to my L98 also but havent gotten a chance to do it yet.

when i get around to it i'll take some pics to make a tut. with all the tools and parts needed to do the removal, might be a few weeks til i get a chance tho.

I'll be doing it on a 1991 Z28 with L98 350 TPI motor. all stock.

Gallileo60

What are the advantages to both of these procedures, besides the better looking engine bay???? Any horse power increase???? Pro's??? Con's??? Would you do it again??? Thanks, Tom

coolram62

iTrader: (2)

The EGR(exhaust gas recirculation)does just what it's name implies.It recirculates unburnt ehaust gas back through the intake manifold to burn it off(I know very simplified and probably not completly correct).On most newer engines the EGR circuit is actually incorporated into the intake with no external valves.It helps reduce NOX emissions.
The A I R(air injection)is used to introduce oxygen into the 3 way cat convertor.This is done to help the convertor work more efficently.3 way convertors are designed to work with it.Without the convertor will fail it's just a matter of time.

I apologize for the crudeness of my explanation.if you do a search you'll no doubt find a better one.

jer4251

iTrader: (6)

good explination.

I would do it again and again. i don't care for the cats so i remove them anyways. drops the weight by almost nothing, but gives more room under the hood. its hard to see the air pump down where it is but removing it frees up some drag on the serp. belt, maybe even a horse power out of it, i dont really know.

Knight_Hawk

I hear that you lose a bit of back pressure in taking the A.I.R. system out ( keep in mind this is just hear-say from a swap meet i was at.) but if you have full exaust system (i.e. all the way out the back with a magnaflow or whichever you prefer. not side pipes or such) you'll retain enough back pressure.

usamuscle892

well, yes, it does reduce pull on the serpentine setup but only maybe a horse. they have dyno proven that there is not difference. All in all, it cleans up our already ugly engine bays, SIGNIFICANTLY and removes lots of unneeded weight. The pump itself that runs on the belt is atleast 5-10 pounds then with all the plastics and hoses youre looking at 10-20 pounds unneeded. The easiest way to take the system off is to cut the air tubes going into the exhaust manifold so you can get a socket over those tube bolts.......seems like its a 14mm socket, if i recall. Again, that crap is heavier than you think and for every 2 pounds you take off your car you get roughly one horsepower so go for it.

As far as backpressure goes, thats bull. All that is controlled by your exhaust tube size, cats and mufflers. Not 4 little tubes the size of NO. 2 pencils.

dave-92gta

iTrader: (1)

ok, im in the middle of this AIR and egr process, and you said the egr goes into the manifold? i must have missed that, but im not does. i took the pump out, the metal lines to the cat (no more cat) i look the egr valves out, but they are still hanging there. i pluged the manifold with 1/4 inch plugs. now where does the egr go into the manifold and how do i block that off?

jer4251

iTrader: (6)

hey dave, if your refering to my post about the manifold, i dont know if the LT1 is the same as the tpi. so i might be wrong. i havent had a chance to look at my tpi motor, i've only owned it for 2 weeks roughly.

CarterCarbureto

iTrader: (1)

well, if anyone's taking pics of this process, please post ^_^

SR-71

Now that you're into it, I gotta throw this in--

EGR-- It's primary job is to cut NOX, but because it slows the fire in the cylinders, it can take more spark advance. The computer does this to stop the power loss. The net payoff is increased gas mileage from reduced pumping losses in the intake. EGR does not operate under load or idle. Only at cruise. So you won't gain any power by taking the EGR out.

MORE EGR-- If you remove the EGR, you have to re-program the computer. The computer runs a test to see if the EGR is working. It opens the EGR and then checks for a MAP drop. If it doesn't see this, it throws on the Check Engine light and sets a code. You need to turn off the "EGR Test" flag and zero out the EGR spark tables.

AIR-- Yes, the pump will use 1-3 horses. It's ugly. It adds weight. It keeps the cat alive. I have nothing to say about removing the AIR. But if you really want a power increase, you should replace the cat, not remove it altogether. Dyno tests by CarCraft with Random Technologies' cats prove that they INCREASE power by 5 to 15 horses over straight pipes. (This is NOT true of the factory cats, which strangle the engine with low flow.) This is because that little bit of backpressure improves cylinder filling at the engine. Get a cat from Random Technologies or CatCo. Both are free-flowing, have been flow-tuned by engine size to match what your engine likes, and have models that don't need the AIR system.

firebirdjosh

iTrader: (1)

That's not true.

atc3434

iTrader: (4)

Yea, not even close. 10lbs is worth roughly 1 hp. If ever 2 lbs were one hp, taking a passenger out would be like getting 50-100 extra hp. I don't think so. A basic rule of thumb on a street car is 10lbs is 1 hp, 10hp is .1 in the 1/4 mile. So remove 100lbs, pick up a tenth in the 1/4. It's not a linear function at all, but thats a basic rule of thumb.

chevrunner21

how do you get horsepower by dropping weight? i know 100 lbs is a tenth of sec off the 1/4 mile because it's less weight so the motor has to push less but how does it add horsepower?

camarodarrell

It doesn't add horsepower, it is just equivalent to running with 10 more horsepower.

Gumby

Id just work on a good weight dis ratio as you can actualy go faster by adding weight in the right places, where removing it from the wrong places can be worse. Best case would be 49/51 with a weight to HP ratio of like 8.5lbs per RWHP.

300RWHP car would weigh in at 2550lbs or less.

You want 51% of the cars weight in the rear half, all the power in the world is useless if you can't hook up proper. Spinning the tires is only a waste of rubber.

usamuscle892

sorry guys, did i say every 2 pounds??? I meant every 18.18 pounds you get a pony back. reducing weight can do alot (carbon fiber, fiberglass, etc. etc.) Weight ratio is importan too. Of course it all depends on your drivetrain RWD FWD AWD and what your using your car for.
Just gonna throw this out there, I read about a test done to determine best fuel economy conditions in a third gen and they found that having abunch of stuff in your hatch, or more weight on the back end, increased fuel economy. It raises the front of the car reducing the amount of downward force on the hood, raising the MPG to like 1-3 miles better.

rhit_rs

iTrader: (1)

I just removed the AIR system from my '92 RS 305 TBI. I have yet to start the engine, but as soon as I turn the key on, the service engine soon light comes on and stays on. It give a Code 32 when checked. Has anyone else had this problem and found a way to fix it save revoving the SES light? I have the ability to reprogram my chip, but unfortunately, the L03 ecm's do not have that adjustment using TunerCat software.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

Its possible you also removed the EGR solenoid or other wiring that goes to the EGR valve.
Also, Tunercat CAN remove the code 32 from the chip. Its in the first table called "Switches" I think. If you dont have it, you have an old TDF file and need to update it from Tunercat.

rhit_rs

iTrader: (1)

Well, it turns out that the code goes away after I start the car. Problem solved.

Gumby

Yea I wouldn't bet your life on them codes. I have chased my tail in circles speding loot hand over fist listen to them dumb things. You should know if your car is running right or not.

dave-92gta

iTrader: (1)

yes and no. when i had the air system still in my car, i got the code 32 light come on. i do not have any ecm stuff so i could not program my computer, but when i took it into the shop, they said my egrs were cloged with most likely carbon falling off and getting stuck in the pins inside the egr valves. i have been running engine cleaner from lucas and it seems to be taking the carbon out(good thing). after i got it back from the shop i just started my car and the carbon went away. this is why im taking them out, not really needed and are kind of a pain. but i also disagree with that. my tps sensor went, and it would trip my light occasionally. then about a week later my car would not go out of high idle. in fact it idled at about 1400 rpm. its a good thing to look into these lights when they go off. i talked to people here on thirdgen and they told me it could be the IAC valve, and other things. anywho i spent about 150 bucks on stuff i didnt need to fix the problem when all i had to do is get the computer re-set.

GMan 3MT

iTrader: (4)

Do you have that article handy? I'm currently running a stright pipe out the side, and am looking for every available hp I can get.

scottyb123

i removed my egr on my carbed l69, and i had no hp increase and no check engine light. the egr is in the back left hand side of the manifold. remove it and put a 10 buck block off plate over the hole with 2 bolts and your done.

i am "removing" my cat and gutting it this week, will i need the AIR system, what is it and where does it go on my cat. how do i remove it?...will my check engine light turn on?

firechicken88

hey everyone. i was driving my car about 70mph when it just lost power,was running but no go. i pulled over turned it off waited then started, it ran fine for a little then started all over again. when i finially got it home i pulled the code (13,32). does anyone have an idea on this problam. btw it seems to be running fine now Thanks firechicken

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

13. Oxygen sensor Circuit
(Sticking TPS, poor electircal connection, open or short circuit,
defective oxygen sensor, defective ECM)

32. Fault in barometric pressure sensor circuit orFault in exhaust gas
recirculation valve diagnostic switch or Fault in electronic vacuum regulator
valve

Sounds like a bad O2 sensor, it will throw a 32 as well

BTW, start your own thread as this does not pertain to the original poster's topic
This would also be better suited in the Tech/General engine forum

USchevyMC

Can someone post or PM me a broken down Barney Style list of directions on how to remove the EGR system?

Thanks

GMan 3MT

iTrader: (4)

Is there anyway to remove the EGR, and NOT have to reprogram the computer to get the SES light to go away? Can the likes of a resistor be installed in line or something?

The class I race in allows removal of emission equipment but does not allow reprograming of the computer. And since I really shouldn't be 'crusing' while racing, the EGR is kinda pointless. I have a '92 TPI setup FWIW

LsxMatt

iTrader: (4)

yea, pull out the bulb.

Inpheksion

So, Im doing full exhaust on my car, and am about to start doing the headers. I have headers without the AIR tubes, so I was wondering what all is the AIR System composed of, other than the metal tubes and the pump. Is that plastic box on the passenger's side engine pay part of it as well? What all should I remove, and what should I leave in place, I want my engine bay to look as clean as possible.

white1991rs

I removed all mine but I cant picture which "plastic box" your talking about. I can show you my set up if that helps.

ZZ3 Z28

I was thinking to check to see how much better, or worse, the car runs without AIR, why not not just undo the belt and give it a test ride for a day or two. If you think everything's okay then unistall all the bits.

white1991rs

That would work to test it but If I were you I wouldn't even mess around with it my cars runnin great without any of that stuff

ZZ3 Z28

Sure. I would think most cars would run perfectly fine without AIR. But to give it a test just to make sure is what I was saying since it seems like some have trouble after messing with this stuff. I do think that most of those probs come in when more than the AIR system is removed, like the EGR or some such stuff. I don't know if everyone knows for sure that you need to plug the exhaust holes and the cat pipe so you don't get fumes backing up under the hood. I hope that if any one does this they make sure the follow all what they need to do and don't skip any steps.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

Subscribing.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

1st, backpressure, NOT good at all unless you have a 2stroke motor in your car. Get the air in, get it out and fast.

My car is a maf 89 350 and I didn't have to turn off the codes in the chip. I just unplugged the egr temp switch, egr solinoid(sp) and put a blockoff plate on the EGR (some cars I leave it to keep the stock look).
These aren't feedback sensors, they are "checked" by the computer and if it doesn't see a problem you wont get a CE light. Oddly enuff unpluging them isn't a problem, which is nice.
I haven't had AIR, egr or cats on my car since 91 and NO CE light ever. I did have CE lights all the time with the stuff plugged in and "working" tho.
I do not know how SD TPI TBI cars CE light works but if I remember correctly its the same.
If your car is more of a street car just leave it alone, it wont make your car faster/lighter enuff to make it worth your time. Buy underdrive pulleys and or use a short belt when you go to the track.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

There's a sticky post at the top of this forum dealing with removing the AIR system. You dont need to bring a 5 year old post back to the top.

By the way, removing any emissions devices on a street vehicle in the United States is a violation of Federal Law, regardless if your state does emissions checks or not.