Quote: Originally posted by Rage13 and pull everything else for that matter.. if its not needed to run, its gone i didn't know you need a pass. seat to run better make sure i leave mine alone i'm sure its a pita to tune

Well i finally got my car weighed. During the LS1 conversion i removed a tremendous amount of weight, i have been keeping up with this thread, but yesterday was the first time i had it on a scale. I knew it would be light, but i didn't think it would be this light. I do drive it 3-4 times a week to work, but since i dont have to i dont drive it in the rain.

Everything is stock in the interior except no back seats and no A/C system. I have both front seats and all trim panels and power windows working fine. I am liking the fiberglass/lexan hatch, that needs to go on the to do list for sure, i do need a roll cage and subframes, but they arent quite a priority, yet.

It came in at 3170 with me (190) in it and a 30lb nitrous bottle that doesnt stay in the car at all times. I have 16x8 salad shooters at all four corners with radials, along with stock LS1 exhaust manifolds, cats and stock heavy catback and torqe converter. I also have a stock 3rd gen radiator, stock k-member and a-arms. It was setup just like i always drive it. Now it is time to start BUYING light weight items.

I plan to replace the stock converter with a 9" converter along with an aluminum radiator, possibly a light weight battery and catback. Hopefully i can find a plastic 4th gen tank around here as well. I already have 3.5" weld drag lites for the front, i just picked up tires for them today so that will be 30lbs as well.

http://www.outlawperformance.com/ima...stuff/progress
take a look so far:

JUST DID A PROFORM ELECTRIC WATER PUMP ON MINE. MOST STOCK PULLEYS WEIGH NEAR 5 LBS EACH. ADD THAT TO A CAST IRON PUMP AND BELTS AND MIGHT AS WELL GET RID OF THE STEERING PUM WHILE YOU AT IT AND YOU JUST CHOPPED OFF 4O LB OFF THE FRONTEND. DON'T FORGET TO THE OPTION OF A PIN ON SET UP FOR YOUR YEAR HATCH. THATS WORTH ANTHER 10 LBS. HAS ANYONE REPLACE THE DECK PLATE ON THE HATCH WITH ALUMINUM?? ALSO ANY BODY GOT EXTRA SET OF MANUAL WINDOW MECHANISMS??
WHATS LIGHTER, A PROSTAR, OR A DRAGLITE???

TO DOCUMENT, A PIN ON FIBERGLASS HOOD SAVES ABOUT 30 LBS. TOO. STOCK T/A HOOD IS 55 LBS.

ANY BODY GOT A TRICK TO GET OUT A WARP IN A NOSE CONE.

ANY BODY GOT A SET OF LEXAN T-TOPS?

OH YEAH, CLOTH SEATS WEIGH ABOUT 22 - 26 LBS EACH ALSO.

WHAT DOES AN ALUMIMUM DRIVE SHAFT SAVE YOU???

WHAT THE HP LIMIT ON THE STOCK ALU. DSHAFT FROM SAY A 2000 F-BODY??? WAIT A MINUTE, I SHOULD BE ABLE TO ANSWER THAT.

I remember reading somewhere that manual windows don't weigh less then power windows.

the weight is almost identical.

however....... stock manual crank windows hit the downbars of a rollbar or cage....

but i am a bit learly of depending on those old motors, and its one less circuit to get f##*%d up. Can you tell i have had a few electrical gremlins.

questions usually end with a question mark.


the solution to all your electrical gremlins:

get the diagrams for your car, and learn how to troubleshoot electrical systems. doing so eliminates 99.99% of electrical gremlins, and allows you to move on past the 1960s and into the modern age of automobiles.

amen

good to know about the electrical windows weighing the same as manual windows, cause i'm upgrading to an almos all power car here in the next couple of weeks.

if anyone is wondering, i got a pair of aluminum drum brakes for the rear. the cast iron drums weighed in at 14lbs. a piece, and the aluminums were only 9lbs. a piece. that's 10lbs of rotating mass i saved right there!!!

wow and all of this time I had been fretting about my power window/locks versus manual window/locks.

can you direct me somewhere that this has been detailed?

also have you seen anywhere that I can figure out how to get rid of the power motor in my hatch for a non-power?

also any reasonable seat recommendations? do I have to go with the "plastic buggy" buckets?

Ditch the system and use pins, or get a mechanical lock from another f body and fabricate a plate to make up the difference. The electrical unit mounts to a few small tabs. A stock mechanical one has a larger bracket welded to be body. If I remember correctly, the mechanical one still uses the same cable connection. You might be able to make a bracket for the actual lock of the electrical unit too.

somehow i detect saracasm, but i'll answer ya anyway.
goto my friend robs house.. pick up my "new" door... its a manual crank door.
then go pick up my "old" door... its a electric window door... they're within about 1 lb of each other (as going by the weigh self, pickup object, stand back on scale method)

obviously this doesnt include the wire, or switches.... but that is still almost nothing... the only people worried about 1lb are race cars.. race cars have rollbars or cages....considering with the manual windows, you need to open the door to crank the manual windows, my advice would be, keep the electrics... and just take a piss before each race.....

get a latch, and weld a bracket in place.. the latch mounts are diffrent between non-power and power.

yea... CLOTH NON POWER 4thgen seats weigh very very little... lightest OEM seats ive picked up.. and they bolt in. and feel comfy.
the leather and power seats weigh a ton.

Use this link http://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/techdb.shtml

and look at the bottom of the page for RPO A31 power windows.

Jerry

MrDude_1 and JERRYWHO

thank you very much. this is the kind of info I wanted to know.

also: no sarcasm MrDude_1, I was serious, and thank you on those seats.

thanks for the chart too.

I think I will be weighing the 700R4 and converter that came out versus my trans brake th350 and converter too.

back to the motor thing. yes, trouble shooting is a nifty little tool one must have to keep a 20 year old car on the street. what I don't have are magical powers to deal with these things as they occur at the track next car up when you can't get the window up at the starting line.

I like the idea that I will be able to raise lower my windows with the cage in.

Im glad you mentioned the bad window motor thing, I might have to make sure to add a window net in case of such emergency.

draglites vs prostars? which is lighter?

convo pro's are lighter.

Prostars tend to run about 8oz-1lb lighter then draglites. The normal ones are about 1-2lbs lighter then some of the lighter OEM rims, there are also some lightweight drag versions in the bigger sizes that shave off 3-5# off the normal weight ones, which puts them at about the same or lighter then the convo pros

yeah those bogarts are REALLY light, way lighter than the convos even, a bunch of the local stang guys got those and then regretted it. just driving them on the street with normal use without curbing or potholes (we have really nice roads) they still get bent.

Also I have seen two sets destroyed trying to break the bead on a set of drag slicks and et streets.

machine pushes on tire, tire hangs on to wheel, wheel folds like a pie tin.

Bogart will fix them for you they spend about as much time repairing as they do building.

I don't find fault with them, they are pretty much competition only wheels.

Put my car on the scale. 91 GTA power everything and lether.
Nearly full tank, 9", and 6spd, w/ me (175) in it tipped in at 3440. But that's a land fill scale, so who knows how accurate those are.

my 92 B4C with 270 lb me



I figure the 91 Z28 that I am lightening was about the same to begin with.

My car weighed 2650Lbs stock! Its down to 2250 now!

OOPS! Wrong forum

My camaro weighed 386X 1989RS. After just a motorswap with some aluminum parts, and getting rid of the A/C and junk I was down to 3600ish, FYI. I cant see ever getting one of these things down that low. I am, however, hoping to get my 2250 down to 2000Even this summer, but thats another story. BTW my SR20 made 404RWHP last week go me.

my firebird shipping weight on the invoice is 3002.
with what i have subtracted and added it's probably at like 3020 now.

i have no ac stock. no power options at all.
i have added a fire extinguisher, wonderbar. converted to 4th gen console, that saved some weight. removed cruise control, hood liner, cut out the airbox tray, and a few wireing components for options i don't have.

Removed for lightness so far
rear seats and buckles
spare tire jack etc..
a/c
smog
window washer tank.
lnsulation on doors and rear hatch carpet.

How much weight would this take off?
Door armrest
Front chin spoiler
Door spoiler and rocker spoiler
High rise rear spoiler.

thanks
Dave

I saw a thirdegen drag car with one of those "trunk deck" hatch replacements.

They may not be as pretty, and dont have as good of visability but I guess they are a whole lot lighter.

I believe they are of fiberglass construction and the window mounted in them would allow for a lexan replacement atleast.

anyone what they are? who makes them? and how much they weigh?

yes, it is called a "notchback" and was a factory option. not a popular one however. only 625 were ever produced. hawks sells new ones. they are $625. they can be found here
good luck with that

factory? I have trouble with that, can you show me some option evidence?

It's true. Do a search for notchback on the history board and you should pull up all the data you need

yea, factory..

on some 'birds... no camaros.

it was a option..... only 600 something were made.... not too popular... atleast then.... now a factory notchback is worth a bit more to the right collector.

only 625 were ever produced of the factory ones.

According to my sticker in my car mine is 3000lbs. I have deleted a lot but I am sure I am still over 3000lbs.

man you guys are doing hella stripping. How fast are your cars? Anyone have before/After times? My mantras always been if its not fast enough make more power, i'm big on amenities. <sp>

well, i weigh about 3080 and the car has gone 13.7 @ 100mph with a 305. with some more tinkering, i think i can get it down to a 13.4. but i still have all the interior in the car too.

to the unknowing a sticker is not a weight I have never seen that sticker even close the actual weight of a car.

Adding HP is always good, but i have found that the lighter you are the easier it is on parts and less chance of breaking anything...and you go faster.

I've got a notchback for sale. PM me.

yeah 13's on a 305 speaks for itself

thanks man

We were weighing third-gens in Memphis a few weeks ago (at the National F-body Motorsports Event) and there was only one third-gen that dipped to 3000 pounds even. It has a 10-point roll cage, the insides of the doors have been gutted, the interior is no more. The car is a rolling shell of an '85 base model car used purely for racing.

My car, with the 6-point S&W roll bar, and big, fat ROH ZS wheels hit 3445 pounds on the scales when measured in one measurement. When measuring axle by axle, we got 1940 pounds on the front wheels and 1500 on the rear wheels. I was not in the car. (That's a 56%/44% front to rear wheel weight bias)

Most all of the other third-gens were in the 3400 to 3600 pound range without drivers. I think the 1987 GTA was the heaviest, IIRC.

Hmmm.... 3080 lbs in an iron headed 305 with full interior, glass, and hood? On what kind of tires? I'm thinking you might want to re-check those scales. I'm still skeptical of third-gens that claim to have an interior and a sub-3100 pound weight. Its not impossible but not probable.

Nice E/T by the way. Like everyone said, 13's in a 305 are quite respectable. To hit that 13.4 you're going to need some serious traction and a really good 60-foot time. Pop on the skinnies and drag slicks!

My old sold car is under 3000 pounds and we dont know why.

The 7.5 replaced with heavier 9", the T-5 was replaced with a heavier T-56, the 2.8 was replaced with an iron headed 355, and subframes were added.

It was checked on one set of CAT truck scales certified for DOT drivers and then driven straight to a state certified grain and feed scale for commerce.

It cost $5 at each scale to weigh. both weights were within 20-40 lbs of each other!

I didn't realize until I scaled my B4C and started trying to reduce weight on my Z28 what a rare jewel it was.

Now I wish I hadn't sold it!

http://www.outlawperformance.com/JYD2.0.htm

I even made this post about it

http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/show...hreadid=273235

trying to find out if this was normal for SC's

This is a myth.

It might be true for handling, but not for straight line performance.

One pound on the wheel is worth about 1.6 pound on the car.

it has a fiberglass cowl hood, but has all the glass still in the car. when i redid my interior, i pulled all the sound deadening material out of the car. i put in an ACC front carpet piece that weighs only about 10lbs., where as the stock piece was like 50lbs. or more! i also put in some no power anything fourthgen cloth front seats with the thirdgen racks. made for an extremely light seat. probably 10+lbs. less than the stock seats.

i weighed on two different scales, one at Silver Dollar Dragway in Reynolds, GA and one at Atlanta Dragway in Commerce GA. i was within 5lbs. at each.

this is with stock rs wheels with 215/65/15 futura super sport gls's on the front and 275/60/15 m/t drag radials on the back.

my old camaro was the same exact setup except it had power everything, front sway bar on (mine is off now), gfx, and t-tops. weighed in right at 3200lbs.

my new camaro will recieve a gfx delete. it is a hardtop. keeping power everthing. done away with most all accessories. hoping to come across a manaul steering box soon. hope with some fatties and skinnys and pulling the sub/amp, i'll be under 3000lbs. without driver. i weigh 260 so add that to the 3080 for race weight. put even so, 3340lbs. being propelled to a 13.7 with a 305 is pretty good. oh, and my best 60' to date is a 1.82. traction is not the issue. i have not been able to figure out why i have strange bogs. the car needs a double pumper for sure. i am tired of screwing with the tired ole' vacuum secondary carb i have.

dehydration goes along way , kinda like being on the wrestling team, day before andtrack day were sweat pants and sweater, spit as much as possible, drop boys at porclian pool, shave body and head go cammando , laces are overrated where zips from payless like 9bucks or something, cut your nails,
that could net close to 5lbs

are you friends with any horse jockeys those guys barely tip int 100lbs

Just wanted to put in here about how light my car has become.

Right now the car weighs 2713 with a full tank of fuel and ready to run without me in it.

The car is completely gutted, almost all unnecessary interior bracketry has been removed, the windows and window regulators in the doors have been removed, the car was switched to a T5, 8lb fiberglass hood, no hinges, everything pinned on (no hatch motor or bracket), no rear bumper support, tubular front bumper support, non-power seats out of a '96 TA, GTA wheels, Aluminum PHB and LCAs, and just about any other free weight reduction you can think of.

Check out the pics at the link in the sig to see what I mean.

HAH!!!!!! Get rid of those heavy doors, those weigh a lot. And loose the hood, the motor will run cooler without a hood. Go mad max road warrior on it. Just strap a net over the door sockets so you dont fall out. Or if you still want doors, just fab a plastic and nylon one like a Jeep Wrangler has, or if you are on a budget, use a little cardboard and duct-tape to make the door.

I want to see weight results and pics of the cardboard or net door sockets please.
You can do it!!!!!!!!!!!!

The doors don't hardly weigh anything anymore and the motor runs at 180 the entire time I'm on the track thanks to the radiator ducting so the hood stays for aero purposes.

Depending on what class I run, I'm tempted to cut the door skins off the doors and just dzus the doors to the body since I'll have NASCAR-style doors bars on the cage for safety.

It's definitely not a street car anymore, so don't laugh at it like it's some hillbilly special.

im not laughing at your car, just the idea of how one would look without doors or other bodyparts, it would be hard to make it look right, and I guess some type of door is required by law What do you mean your doors dont weigh anything anymore? Did you take out anything else besides the windows / window motors? The still have to weigh a lot, those doors are one of the heaviest single body parts on the car, and there are 2. Oh yeah, I think I have seen tubular replacment A-arms and a different front crossmember that the springs sit in, does anyone know how much lighter those are?