I've been tossing around the idea of fabricating all the body panels for my 89 RS out of stainless steel with some of my friends. I've got just about all the tools for sheet metal fab on that level, and I figure I could do it for about $500 to a grand, with a solid month's work. It's kind of just a theory at this point. Any comments?

88 MILES PER HOUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You had to see that coming.

Anyway, how exactly to you plan to do this? I can see it being nearly impossible to form metal to the shape of the GM pieces perfectly and have it look any good. One bad crease and that piece is done for. Think of all the curves and what not.

The question isnt if it is possible..but why? There isnt really any benifiet besides corrosion..which the body will be painted anyways. Your aiming to lose weight i would change your thoughts too fiberglass or carbon fiber body parts.

i can tell you why.. because itll be one of one. id make some of my parts stainless. fenders. quarters. door skins. but i wouldnt do the complete shell. id still paint it though..

I just saw Back to the Future today...
I think fiberglass would be a better material.
Weighs less, still corrosion resistant.
But stainless just looks awesome.
It would be very hard to get it to look right. You'd probably still have to use filler and paint it to make it look right.

wouldn't fiberglass be crappy to have since its weaker though?

if you get in an accident damage will be much worse.

my mom had an old corvette when she was a kid and said once it got a crack, every bump would make the crack get larger and larger

wow.

Fiberglass is very easy to repair, so there was no reason for her to not get that crack fixed.

Like you said, Corvette's were, and are, made from fiberglass, so if it was that weak or unsafe I don't think they would make vehicles from it.

I'd like to see the weight of our body shells in CF, our shells in FG weigh around 114lbs as stated by VFN. So CF could very well be a good 25% lighter than that, so around 85.5lbs and CF is stronger than FG.

$4400 for FG body. I couldnt imagine what a CF body would cost...$10k+?

Stainless steel floors would be nice.

I'm thinking a CF body for our cars would be alot more than $10k. To be on the safe side, you'd need at least 3 plys of CF. I know of teams in FSAE that make CF mono-cockpit and they need at least 3 plys of CF and that totals to about $15k in material before tooling & labor and I know that a CF monocock is much smaller than an entire production car body.

Corvette's are only safe because they have a strong inner structure. The chassis is made of steel, although I think the newer ones might be aluminum.

A full car made out of fiberglass would not be strong. I don't know if that's what you meant or not but that's what it sounds like.

A stainless camaro would be neat, but an assload of work. I'm not sure it could be done for $500 either. Have you priced stainless lately? Not to mention you'd have to use the correct alloy of stainless to get the same integrity as a normal steel vehicle and still get your corrosion benefits. There is a certain amount of flex in steel and stainless is typically more rigid.

A stainless chassis wouldn't be hard to fabricate, but making body panels and quarters would be a PITA, IMHO unless you had an unlimited budget and made yourself dies from CNC and stamped them out. But what would be the point of that unless you were going to mass produce them? That means you'd have to figure out how to make every piece by hand with all their complex curves and whatnot.

Mathius

you should see the February 2009 issue of hot rod magazine page 79. hes floor pans or made of carbon fiber i would love that.

What's the problem, having flux dispersal problems? hehe

I highly doubt that you can form stainless steel to match original body panels with high enough quality to not require lots of rework and filler (which destroys the purpose, because it would have to be painted). You would need OEM style dyes and huge presses!

I wouldnt install carpet in my car...haha.

To try to adress all the replies that accumulated in a few hours...

I have not really looked into CF or FG. Like I said, it's a project car, and I have no real custom experience with either of these materials.

I do however have a lot of experience as a custom metalworker. Lately I've rolled out a few sets of medieval armor (dorky, I know - I've got a third gen to compensate for that). I have the tools and knowhow to fabricate body panels, as long as I have the original to work with. Matching curves and inflections is really just a matter of time and planning - easier than a good articulated gauntlet.

I actually guaged my stainless steel prices from a wholesale supplier from about one year ago, though I've never worked with stainless on a large scale. The regular sheet steel price doesnt fluctuate much (probably within 10% for nearly a decade).

The Delorean was my inspiration - thanks for pointing that out. I just didnt really want to preface this thread with "I was watching this Michael J Fox movie and..." And yes, the one of a kind-ness factor is really the main tipping point as for weight - it could be the same or maybe 10lbs less depending on how flashy I wanted to do it.

Alright - thanks for commenting everybody.

Do it!!! I think it is a great concept. But then this is coming from a guy, who if he had the resources/money, often dreamed about making a all chromed car.

It sounds then, that you already have more background on the subject than most likely anybody here does, in which case, AWE US!!

he doesn't have carpet. fastest street car in America.

No, that's not what I meant. I know an inner structure would still be needed, for the same reason that our cars have one.

I dont know. From what I've seen the people who post here are pretty knowledgable. Sure, I can physically make the panels. I just wanted feedback what people thought about the idea. Maybe it's already been discussed, or done.

Anyways, It's a long term project. If this thread stays afloat, maybe I'll get some more insight that'll turn me away from it, but it looks like I might start planning this summer or the next one.

sounds cool! if you do it, how are you going to do the quarter panels? the fenders will be easy enough for you it seems, but the quarter panels are not just bolt on parts, they attach to the unibody, so to make it look like the whole car was SS, you would have to almost make the unibody out of SS

Yeah, In order to get to the a lot of the side panels, you have to get a lot of bolt on and snap on stuff out of the way and drill out 50 or so tack welds per piece. At least, this is my understanding. Spike TV has a power block show where they replace panels all the time. There's actually a bonding agent that you can basically glue new panels on with, but I was planning on just welding them. Actually the fenders might end up being harder because there's a lot more metal shaping to be done and instead of just welding it in place I have to make a working mount system to align with the chassis bolts.

I'm confused. This last message and some of the messages by other posters make it sound like you just want stainless steel hood, fenders, quarters, ie. the exterior panels, but you're not going to mess with the chassis?

Now I REALLY don't get the point. why make outer panels that will last forever and bolt them up to a 20 year old chassis that is well known to have floor pan rust issues, will eventually get wheel well rust issues... well you get the idea.

I just don't get the point.

If you did the whole car.. ok.. corrosion benefits, plus it would look cool to have an all bare metal car I suppose. You could really show off your no bondo perfect body lines.

But to just do the exterior panels? You can still weld it together like the factory.. 309 stainless is best for welding stainless panels to steel... But everytime someone looks at your car, they're gonna see a painted chassis in between every door and fender gap, everytime they look through your grille, and whenever you climb under the car you're gonna see rust under your pristine (if dirty) stainless panels.

Mathius

simply put, SPEND YOUR MONEY, and time, ELSEWERES. I could understand small underhood parts or the air diffuser for our radiators, but panels.

And where would you suggest he spend his time/money For a custom look, he seems to have the knowledge and inspiration to make a very unique Camaro. There are people that spend tens of thousands of dollars on their cars to make them unique. This sounds like it won't take that much money, just lots of time and elbow grease. However, the end product of his idea when seen on the street would get my attention.... along with 99 percent of the people on this board.

I agree, as long as he sticks with it and finishes the job. Otherwise he just has an expensive pile of scrap. But while stainless is expensive, I would be willing to bet he could build the whole car for less $$$ than it would cost someone else for a custom paint job.

Mathius

I say do it!!! You got the know how and the skill. Take lots of picture like to see how you made it and stuff.

Right on, guys. I'm going to look into it for sure, but dont hold your breath for any pics because there's a lot of stuff I want to do under the hood first. I dont plan on doing a custom job like that show pimp my ride where they make everything look clean and flashy, and leave the engine a sputtering heap of rust. If things look good financially for me this summer, that would be the earliest I could start it.

But thanks for the input. Maybe I'll see ya at a car show someday.

a good painter can make you car look like is brused stainless steel

As a fellow custom metal worker, I say GO FOR IT!!! I've had the same idea myself, I just don't have the time. The only drawback would be the weight, depending on what gauge you go with. Too light and stainless has a bad tendency to want to kink, too heavy and you're looking a weight issues.

How much experience to you have in forming stainless? It works alot different than cold rolled. Heating it will discolor it too, but it can usually be polished out depending on which stainless you use. If I was to do it I'd use 304 since that's what I have alot of experience with....and I can get my hands on alot of it for free.

Also, steel prices have dropped a good bit since this time last year.

One of the shops I used to work at used to do a lot of finishing on stainless steel. When you weld it you obviously discolor it. But they had a little machine that sent a current through it combined with a certain type of acid it would remove the discoloration. I asked the owner what the machine was called, but he didn't know. He said it'd been around since he was working there before he bought the shop. He said for all he knew it was just a battery charger. They used these foam boots that would wear out from the acid over a little paddle.

I've always meant to ask over at metal meet if anyone had ever heard of something like that, but I never got around to it.

Mathius

On a large scale like this my experience with stainless steel is a bit lacking. I do feel confident I have enough experience with other metals to compensate.

The discoloration removal chemical can really be replaced with any acid, as far as I know. Different strength... different result/efficacy I'd imagine. I've only ever heard it refered to by name as "pickle" (guess what it smells like) and it works best when heated, hence, I assume the... electrolysis? I've only ever used it in the shop on small scale, out of a hot wired crock pot.

The guage of steel I'd be working with is something I havent figured out yet. My wallet wants me to say 18ga. maybe 16, which is what I usually work with in cold rolled. Much heavier than that there's weight but it would also be... what's the word... bulletproof. When I get some panels off I'll guage the metal and make a descision then. Any advice here would be appreciated.

Free stainless! What!?! That's really cool. if you're ever wanting to send any of that my way just let me know. I've got a few connections, but none that sweet. Like... sometimes I can get bulk rate shipping...

Coming from a bodyman... why would you even consider putting yourself through this? lol Its much more difficult to do than most people would think, especially since you'd have to pick-and-file (no body fill) the whole car to even make it worthwhile, because if its going to be painted, then theres no reason for stainless when there are corrosion protection products out there that can potentially make regular steel panels last almost forever.

As for Corvettes - for one, they havent been fibreglass since the '70s. They are plastic and SMC (similar to fibreglass, but not the same). Those plastic and SMC body panels are also not structural components, just cosmetic. Many body panels on your Camaro ARE structural - the quarter panels for example. Remove those or replace them with something of a different material like aluminum or fibreglass, and you will ruin the structural integrity of the car.

This project will just never never never ever never ever ever happen. It'd be an insane amount of work to hand fabricate all those panels with the precision required for it to look halfway decent in the end. I'd like to see someone even fabricate one quarter panel out of stainless and have it come out smooth around the body lines and contours of the wheel well, door jamb, taillight and shoulder into the b-pillar.

if you wanna put stainless on your car, id at least do it to were its most needed, the floor.

Adam and Berli make very good points. It is an exorbitant amount of work to be put on a car that has a host of other problems. Both points, I absolutely conceed.

But I am a custom metal worker, not a body man. I'm not really applying the normal automotive body work standards to this project - I look at it as a metal project that eventually goes on a car.

If I had more time on my hands I'd fabricate a quarter panel this weekend (though, I'd only do it out of cold rolled). I've done a lot of metal work, and can say that stand alone - it's a one day project.

If there's anyone out there who would want to buy said quarter panel for, say, 75 bucks, (way under new, even under junkyard price) for an 89 RS, you name which one, I can have it done in probably two weeks.

Not that I plan on making a business out of this, but honestly, I'd like the practice anyway. Figure out the ways to do it the quickest.

THE DEAL - 16ga. cold rolled, both sides powder coated (rust resistant - but would need paint quick) single quarter panel for 89 RS. Buyer pays shipping. If you see the finished product and dont like it - dont buy it, no questions asked. Pics provided before you buy. Will need paint or will eventually corrode/rust. Will need to be installed - No idea what it would cost at a shop.

Was forced to watch pimp my ride the other night and they used chrome paint on a honda crx...
if your just wanting the shiney look like chrome.... it may be worth checking into...

you REALLY think you can recreate all of the contours and angles of a 3rd gen quarter panel with hand tools? I'm beyond sceptical. What about the crease following down the back side of the b-pillar that folds into the hatch seal channel and blends into the "shoulder" of the quarter panel? Doing just that section in one piece with hand tools is no weekend project. Wrapping into the door jamb would be lots of fun too

.....I CAN... Hell, I recreated the whole bed & rear fenders for a '47 Chevy truck that I had about 9 years ago....from scratch. It took me about a month working on it by myself in the evenings after work and weekends. I think a thirdgen quarter panel that is basically flat would be MUCH easier than the big "bubble" fenders on a 1st series Chevy truck.

And it was all done with hand tools.....

BURN!

What if you just covered it instead of replacing the panels? I am aware the weight would be astronaumical and I personally have no interest in doing this, would love to see it though.

You could just leave it as bare steel and never take it out of the garag
Or... just strip it down to bare steel, then clearcoat it.

nice contribution, IH8 WWD. FYRCHKN, I know you're very skilled. I saw your thread on how you fabricated the 91 firebird ground effects extension and it turned out awesome. If you recall, I even inquired with you about fabricating 84 T/A fender vents out of steel but you didn't have the time to do it. The original poster is saying that he can fabricate an accurate and complete 3rd gen quarter panel in a weekend. Drawing on your experience, which obviously is far greater than my own, do you think that's feasible? And if it is, why the hell can't I get anyone to fabricate this little fender vent for me?!?!

Id like to do the WHOLE car in aluminum...

so idonno if this has been mentioned yet, i dont feel like reading the whole thread again but even if he does achieve the stainless panels, it will still have plastic bumpers and ground effects if he uses them, so what then?

you should make stainless window inserts with little peep holes, mount some replica 50cals on the fenders and flat black the car out, that would be awesome to see!

Go For It. It would be nice to prove everyone wrong for doubting you.

Yeah, there's a lot of sceptics here, which is good. Keeps everyone honest. I've got something of a metal shop in my garage, so I wont be attempting any of this with just hand tools.

Again, though, It's a long term project, so dont wait up for pics any time soon.

One thing that was said - that I cant perfectly match all the subtle body lines. It isnt that I cant - I probably wont. If I'm going to fab everything, I plan on leaving my signature on it.

There's a lot of people who've posted and said "this and that will be way too hard" but I was really looking for more advice. People who've messed with these panels, or fabricated stuff like this. Maybe a "this panel has a weird mount under the weather strip - watch out." "while you're working on this replace that." It'd be helpful.

What do you mean, what then? He makes them out of stainless. The only reason they were plastic from the factory is they were just a cover, and the front spoiler needs to flex to keep it from getting dented on every little curb.

Mathius

It could be done in a weekend....IF you know how to work stainless, have the right tools, and the proper skills.