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06-24-2004, 09:27 PM
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#501 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Fort Mill, SC, USA
Posts: 6,063
Car: '88 Iroc, '91 RS, and a '70 RS Engine: 5.7 TPI; 5.0 TBI; ZZ4/T56 on the agenda Transmission: A4, A4, slated to be a T56 | Dammit...  |  
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06-24-2004, 09:27 PM
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#502 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Fort Mill, SC, USA
Posts: 6,063
Car: '88 Iroc, '91 RS, and a '70 RS Engine: 5.7 TPI; 5.0 TBI; ZZ4/T56 on the agenda Transmission: A4, A4, slated to be a T56 | Front side: | |
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06-26-2004, 01:02 AM
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#503 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 482
| auto specialty makes rebuild kits for ls1 calipers. you just have to find your local dealer
ill get a p/n tomorrow | |
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06-26-2004, 09:38 AM
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#504 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Fort Mill, SC, USA
Posts: 6,063
Car: '88 Iroc, '91 RS, and a '70 RS Engine: 5.7 TPI; 5.0 TBI; ZZ4/T56 on the agenda Transmission: A4, A4, slated to be a T56 | Thank you, I'd appreciate it.
Ed | |
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06-26-2004, 12:53 PM
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#505 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Roscoe, IL
Posts: 1,694
Car: 1991 Trans Am Engine: 305 Transmission: T-56 Axle/Gears: 3.73 9-bolt | summit carries auto specialty stuff. i ordered my pads from them | |
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06-27-2004, 02:00 AM
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#506 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 482
| C4 Kit
Front - KC82029
Rear - KC82029
C5 Kit
Front - 45MM Pistons - KC82035
- 40MM Pistons - KC82036
Rear - KC82035
"LS1" Kit
Front - KC82035
Rear - KC82035
84-92 1LE Front Calipers - KC82028
89-96 PBR Rear Calipers - KC82029
These are AutoSpecialty Part Numbers.
Each Kit Does 1 Caliper.
So 1 kit repairs 1 dual piston caliper if such is the case. | |
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07-06-2004, 04:00 PM
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#507 | | Member
Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 143
| Everyone that has done this upgrade needs to check the bolts that hold the caliper to the braket!!!! I did the LS1 upgrade on my GTA about 4 months ago and have put about 1k on them. My drivers front caliper came off on me last weekend and could have been really bad if the car hadn't been slowing down alread (wheel locked at about 30 or so). It cost me a wheel, caliper, brake line, and tire but could have been much worse. The bolts had locktite and had been check several times for tightness. This was a kit that I had purchased, and installed by the book. Hopefully it was just a fluke.
I'm still not sure what happened but have ask Ed to check into it..
__________________
88 GTA: Slammed and Cammed
05 Mustang GT: Blue and Blown
Proud member of
team3rdgen.com | |
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07-06-2004, 06:08 PM
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#508 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Fort Mill, SC, USA
Posts: 6,063
Car: '88 Iroc, '91 RS, and a '70 RS Engine: 5.7 TPI; 5.0 TBI; ZZ4/T56 on the agenda Transmission: A4, A4, slated to be a T56 | I was gonna post on this earlier last night but I had to shrink the pics down when I got home to get them to fit in the forum...
Here's a pic of Jeff's caliper after the bolt(s) backed out on him at about 30 MPH. All I can say is check them often, use a torque wrench, and Locktite or equivalent.
Also, I STRONGLY suggest lockwiring (safety wiring) your bolts if you can and are able like I did on my 1LE car. It's not that hard and in this case could have saved the damage and worry caused by the wheel locking up. I suggest drilling a hole in the bolt heads and a small hole close to the bolts in the bracket and tieing them together with the lockwire. Links to how to install lockwire are here: http://www.lrrsracing.com/RuleBook/lockwire.htm http://www.whizwheels.com/Tips/safetywiring.html
I'm glad to hear that no one was hurt when the wheel locked up but now Jeff's out a wheel, caliper, and other stuff, but we'll see what we can do to get him back on the road.
Ed
Last edited by ebmiller88 : 07-06-2004 at 06:30 PM.
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07-06-2004, 06:08 PM
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#509 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Fort Mill, SC, USA
Posts: 6,063
Car: '88 Iroc, '91 RS, and a '70 RS Engine: 5.7 TPI; 5.0 TBI; ZZ4/T56 on the agenda Transmission: A4, A4, slated to be a T56 | Another: | |
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07-06-2004, 06:11 PM
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#510 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Fort Mill, SC, USA
Posts: 6,063
Car: '88 Iroc, '91 RS, and a '70 RS Engine: 5.7 TPI; 5.0 TBI; ZZ4/T56 on the agenda Transmission: A4, A4, slated to be a T56 | Here's how I wired the bolts on my 1LE car: | |
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07-06-2004, 06:46 PM
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#511 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Roscoe, IL
Posts: 1,694
Car: 1991 Trans Am Engine: 305 Transmission: T-56 Axle/Gears: 3.73 9-bolt | wow, thats scary. i went through last night and checked all the bolts on the brakes, front and back, cause i was hoping to drive the car today, im glad i did cause the carrier bolts on the back werent tight. but when you put an xacto blade into your thumb it puts a dampner on things | |
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07-06-2004, 08:39 PM
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#512 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Clifton, NJ
Posts: 624
Car: '88 Formula Engine: 350 TPI Transmission: T-5... in need of slight rebuild | The same exact thing happened to me in my Malibu. Different brakes, but it is the same idea. I was able to limp the car home using the parking brake and 1st gear. I got away with buying new bolts, pads, and rotors... they needed it anyway. The caliper has just a little of a cooling fin taken off, and the wheel barely has a groove. I thought about saftey wiring them together but the new ones came with loctite already, I used red loctite on the other side. Also, the grade of the hardware should be up to par too. I'm pretty sure metric grade 8.8 is about grade 5, and 10.9 is grade 8.
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'88 Formula, T-5, 350, Dart heads, SLP Headers, 3" race magnum muffler, Hotchkis springs, Tokico Illumina 5 adjustable shocks and struts. Now with the infamous traction delete option :-( | |
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07-06-2004, 08:41 PM
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#513 | | TGO Supporter
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Grand Island, NY
Posts: 1,132
Car: 1990 Formula Engine: 305 TPI Transmission: WC T5 | Just ordered my safety wire wrench and wire! | |
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07-06-2004, 08:43 PM
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#514 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 763
Car: 86 IROC-Z Engine: Superramed 355 w/ intercooled T72 Transmission: T56 -=- www.iroc-ss.com | I'll have to check mine out before I ride again. | |
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07-06-2004, 10:39 PM
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#515 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,506
| Quote: Originally posted by novass
Just ordered my safety wire wrench and wire! | i reccommend milbar pliers and make sure you get stainless steel wire that is actually safety wire not just crappy wire. | |
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07-06-2004, 11:36 PM
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#516 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 482
| any ideas why they did this? and why they do not come off on a stock setup?
i think besides safety wire figuring out exactly why this is happening and coming up with a remedy is called for. | |
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07-07-2004, 12:42 AM
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#517 | | Supporter/Moderator
Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: Another world, some other time
Posts: 3,789
Car: 86 & 92 Firebirds Engine: The Mighty 305! Transmission: 700R4 | Quote: Originally posted by jcsws6
Everyone that has done this upgrade needs to check the bolts that hold the caliper to the braket!!!! I did the LS1 upgrade on my GTA about 4 months ago and have put about 1k on them. My drivers front caliper came off on me last weekend and could have been really bad if the car hadn't been slowing down alread (wheel locked at about 30 or so). It cost me a wheel, caliper, brake line, and tire but could have been much worse. The bolts had locktite and had been check several times for tightness. This was a kit that I had purchased, and installed by the book. Hopefully it was just a fluke.
I'm still not sure what happened but have ask Ed to check into it.. | Did the whole bolt just back out or did it loosen and shear off? And were you using GM bolts or some hardware store's bolts? | |
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07-07-2004, 01:15 AM
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#518 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Fort Mill, SC, USA
Posts: 6,063
Car: '88 Iroc, '91 RS, and a '70 RS Engine: 5.7 TPI; 5.0 TBI; ZZ4/T56 on the agenda Transmission: A4, A4, slated to be a T56 | No they weren't stock bolts, they're Grade 8 metric bolts. And the whole bolt came out. The stock LS1 caliper mounting bolts are too long to use without cutting them down so different bolts were used in this setup. The stock bolts on the LS1s and Vettes also come with red locktite on them, just look at a new bolt for a C5 caliper or in the bolts for a PBR rear caliper rebuild kit.
Don't know why it happened but I'm looking into it with a passion. I know different bolts are tighter here and there but this should not have happened. We may just need to find a different bolt.
Ed | |
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07-07-2004, 02:48 AM
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#519 | | Supporter/Moderator
Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: Another world, some other time
Posts: 3,789
Car: 86 & 92 Firebirds Engine: The Mighty 305! Transmission: 700R4 | Quote: Originally posted by ebmiller88
No they weren't stock bolts, they're Grade 8 metric bolts. And the whole bolt came out. The stock LS1 caliper mounting bolts are too long to use without cutting them down so different bolts were used in this setup. The stock bolts on the LS1s and Vettes also come with red locktite on them, just look at a new bolt for a C5 caliper or in the bolts for a PBR rear caliper rebuild kit.
Don't know why it happened but I'm looking into it with a passion. I know different bolts are tighter here and there but this should not have happened. We may just need to find a different bolt.
Ed | Are you positive it was a Grade 8 metric? Grade 8 applys to US where metric uses a point grading, like 10.9. I'm assuming it was just a standard hex head bolt. You may want to use a flange head bolt that will move evenly spread load and provide greater clamping.
Last edited by Justins86bird : 07-07-2004 at 02:52 AM.
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07-07-2004, 03:53 AM
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#520 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Fort Mill, SC, USA
Posts: 6,063
Car: '88 Iroc, '91 RS, and a '70 RS Engine: 5.7 TPI; 5.0 TBI; ZZ4/T56 on the agenda Transmission: A4, A4, slated to be a T56 | Right, I misspoke. They are 10.9 grade, and hex head bolts. I'll be looking for flange head bolts and also checking to see if, when used with a thick style washer, the factory bolts can be used.
Ed | |
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07-07-2004, 10:37 AM
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#521 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 482
| stupid question. what are flange head bolts? | |
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07-07-2004, 05:16 PM
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#522 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Fort Mill, SC, USA
Posts: 6,063
Car: '88 Iroc, '91 RS, and a '70 RS Engine: 5.7 TPI; 5.0 TBI; ZZ4/T56 on the agenda Transmission: A4, A4, slated to be a T56 | Here's an example of a flange head bolt. Flange bolts are used on 3rd gens on the rear PBR brakes to attach the caliper carrier to the backing plate. They just have the washer cast into the head.
Ed | |
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07-07-2004, 05:31 PM
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#523 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Fort Mill, SC, USA
Posts: 6,063
Car: '88 Iroc, '91 RS, and a '70 RS Engine: 5.7 TPI; 5.0 TBI; ZZ4/T56 on the agenda Transmission: A4, A4, slated to be a T56 | OK, here's what I've found out by talking to parts guru Dal Slabaugh and also referring to AndyZ28's 1LE Plus CD. If you don't have that disc, you're missing a LOT of good info!!!
Here's a shot of the bolts and washers required to install the 1LE brake system. The large M14 x 2.00 bolts are P/N 14084051 and hold the caliper carrier to the 1LE adapter bracket, along with the large washers (P/N 10268875) you see in the pic. This same bolt is used on the C4 caliper carriers to hold the carriers to the spindle. We need to use these bolts and washers on all the C4 kits. They come from GM with the red Locktite already on them. Only drawback is that they are a bit higher priced than a regular Grade 8 or Metric 10.9 bolt, but these need to be used. They can also be drilled for lockwire as I did on my 1LE car.
Now for the LS1 bolts: The bolts are used on the LS1 cars are P/N 10229606 and are $.91 from Dal. They are 33.1mm in length (a little over an inch) and are what should be used here. Also, back to the 1LE bolts, we can use bolt P/N 11508133 which are M12 x 1.75 and can also be used here. These bolts are $2.19 from GMPD (didn't ask Dal about these) but will also work as the threads are the same.
Guys, let's not jump to the conclusion that the brakes aren't safe to run or install. This is simply a matter of the bolts backing out for some reason...this doesn't mean the brakes are gonna fail on you. We just need to take these steps to make them a bit safer. I will only use these bolts in the future.
HTH....
Ed
Last edited by ebmiller88 : 07-07-2004 at 05:33 PM.
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07-07-2004, 06:05 PM
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#524 | | Member
Join Date: May 2003 Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 277
Car: 1990 Camaro RS Engine: LO3: 305 TBI Transmission: Auto Axle/Gears: 1997 Trans Am rear w/ posi -3.23 | Quote: Originally posted by SinthetikIroc
any ideas why they did this? and why they do not come off on a stock setup?
| Could there possibly be a flaw in the LS1 brake set up itself? IIRC this exact same thing occured on my buddy's stock '98 Z28. Had to replace a caliper, rotor, line, and beat up his wheel pretty bad, but it was saved. I'll ask him to see exactly what went on with his ordeal and let you all know.
-Efrain.
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07-07-2004, 06:42 PM
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#525 | | Member
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 190
Car: 1992 Engine: 350TPI Transmission: T-56 | Wow, sounds like these brakes have as many flaws as internet explorer.
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Zerstörer
1992 350TPI GTA
Metallic purple, all black interior
Holley Stealth Ram, Compcams XR282HR cam
Compcam Promagnum roller rocker arms
SLP 1.75 headers, dual cats, Borla exhaust
17" rims, T-56, 3.73, Eaton posi and still no traction
Eibach springs, Koni Yellow ajustables
Boston 6.5" comps, Kicker Comp VR12 DVC, RF Power 751s amp | |
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07-07-2004, 06:53 PM
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#526 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Fort Mill, SC, USA
Posts: 6,063
Car: '88 Iroc, '91 RS, and a '70 RS Engine: 5.7 TPI; 5.0 TBI; ZZ4/T56 on the agenda Transmission: A4, A4, slated to be a T56 | Quote: |
Guys, let's not jump to the conclusion that the brakes aren't safe to run or install. This is simply a matter of the bolts backing out for some reason...this doesn't mean the brakes are gonna fail on you. We just need to take these steps to make them a bit safer. I will only use these bolts in the future.
| Again, I can hardly call a bolt backing out a flaw with the whole brake system...let's not go overboard here.
Efrain, looking forward to your update.
Ed | |
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07-07-2004, 07:43 PM
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#527 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Bakersfield, under a ton of dust...
Posts: 455
Car: A few Engine: All Eights Transmission: All kinds | IE is that good?
So far the kit seems to need no more than some judicious safety wiring. Considering none of it was assembled quite like this by GM, that's a feat...
K Quote: Originally posted by Zerstörer
Wow, sounds like these brakes have as many flaws as internet explorer. | | |
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07-07-2004, 08:08 PM
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