98+ CAMARO “LS1” Brakes: Bigger & Better Period - Page 2 - FAQ Board - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

machinist · 07-09-2003, 10:38 AM

Justin,

The ID of that 4th gen wheel I borrowed is 15 3/8". It looks like it's a spun wheel verses a cast one. The wall thickness is much thinner than my 87 wheels.

Anyway, it looks like no one is interested in the C5 rotor and LS1 caliper. So guess I'll drop that project for now.

Justins86bird · 07-09-2003, 02:59 PM

I should see what my Firehawks are. I think they are around 15 1/4".

Don't give up.

Your C4 brakes working well enough or was this mostly a 'see what more I can' do project? From the sounds of things, it sounds like your pretty close to completion of the C5/LS1 combo.

Justins86bird · 07-09-2003, 08:00 PM

Just dug a wheel out from the back of my garage and measured it. The wheel not only steps in, but has a taper to it making the ID get even smaller. Using a tape measure, I get about 15 1/4" Whats worse is by where the wheel mounts to the axle, the ID is 14 3/4". Of course a tape measure is not the most accurate way to measure the ID, but its fairly close. Maybe off by 1/8".

SDCal7 · 07-10-2003, 03:42 PM

Has anyone figured out the front brake caliper adapter bracket dimensions yet? This is for adapting the '01 SS Brakes onto the third gen. I know a few of us are working on this. Anyone got it?

machinist · 07-10-2003, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SDCal7
Has anyone figured out the front brake caliper adapter bracket dimensions yet? This is for adapting the '01 SS Brakes onto the third gen. I know a few of us are working on this. Anyone got it?

Did you read my post about the C5 rotors in this thread? I was going to work on that, but there was no interest, so I kinda forgot about it.

The C5 rotor is cheap, and allows me to make the bracket much thicker that if we were using the LS1 rotors.

Take a look what I posted on the C5 rotor and let me know if you want to go this way.

machinist · 07-10-2003, 04:02 PM

SDCal7-Bruce

Do you have the phone number for the tech guy you talked to at Earl's? I sure could use it.

Thanks
Dan

SDCal7 · 07-10-2003, 04:08 PM

Thanks for the thought. I have read all the brake info threads and it sounds good. but I already have all the SS brake parts. Let me know if anyone has the caliper plate dimensions for this swap.
Bruce

SDCal7 · 07-10-2003, 04:22 PM

Hi Machinist,
Yes, the guy I spoke with was Lloyd at Earls. The technical line is (310) 609-1602. I've received the brake lines and fittings and all I need now is to start machining the rotors, put in the ARP long wheel studs and figure out that plate.
Bruce - SDCal7

89 Iroc Z · 07-12-2003, 03:27 PM

Sorry that I have left you guys hanging with the bracket design. I can’t find anyone around here that will machine down my rotors for less then $100. Also I have been extremely busy with summer classes. And my car is still broken because the guy I bought the Dana 44 rear from lied to me and it has a bent axel (just my luck with rearends, I am on my third rear so far).

Anyways if anyone knows a place in Northern VA that will machine down my rotors for a good deal let me know and I will get my bracket design posted.

Machinist/Alloy,
I like your C5 rotor idea but I am not sure if I see the benefit of it instead of just going fully with the C5 brake setup.

MrDude_1 · 07-12-2003, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by machinist
Justin,

The ID of that 4th gen wheel I borrowed is 15 3/8". It looks like it's a spun wheel verses a cast one. The wall thickness is much thinner than my 87 wheels.

Anyway, it looks like no one is interested in the C5 rotor and LS1 caliper. So guess I'll drop that project for now.

the only thing i dont like about the idea is that i have to turn down the rotor before i can use it.

it may be no big deal to you, but i like bing able to goto a parts store and bolt on the brake parts.... so if im doing a cross country trip and warp a rotor or somthing, it would be nice to bolt it on.

heres a better question but probly wont amount to anything.

how/what would i have to do to make the brakes have a wheel speed sensor so that i can use ABS. btw, please dont argue about if you think you need ABS or not. i just think it would be nice to be able to stop and turn like 90% of the cars on the road today... i donno about you, but i dont have 4 brake pedals in my car, and my roads arnt racetrack clean enough to just set the proportion valve and have it always stop evenly..

the rears would be no prob... just use a 4thgen rear...

89 Iroc Z · 07-12-2003, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrDude_1

how/what would i have to do to make the brakes have a wheel speed sensor so that i can use ABS. btw, please dont argue about if you think you need ABS or not. i just think it would be nice to be able to stop and turn like 90% of the cars on the road today... i donno about you, but i dont have 4 brake pedals in my car, and my roads arnt racetrack clean enough to just set the proportion valve and have it always stop evenly..

ABS? What car are your trying to do the swap on? To my knowledge no thirdgen came with ABS.

machinist · 07-12-2003, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 89 Iroc Z

Machinist/Alloy,
I like your C5 rotor idea but I am not sure if I see the benefit of it instead of just going fully with the C5 brake setup. [/b]

Cheaper and more easily available caliper.

machinist · 07-12-2003, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrDude_1
the only thing i dont like about the idea is that i have to turn down the rotor before i can use it.

it may be no big deal to you, but i like bing able to goto a parts store and bolt on the brake parts.... so if im doing a cross country trip and warp a rotor or somthing, it would be nice to bolt it on.

I understand what you are saying, but if you are worried about that, get an extra rotor and put in the spare tire well with some padding around it and take it with you when you go on a trip.

The major benefit I see using the C5 rotor is that we solve the bracket thickness problem completely, and you dont have to cut the bump stop off the spindle like you do when using the LS1 rotor. You use a bracket very simular to the 1LE bracket, so it's a much stronger setup with the smaller and thicker bracket.

Forthe minor price difference, there is no way I'd go with the LS1 rotor considering the problems that are solved using the C5 rotor.

And, you also have to remember, if you read the C5 thread, the C5 setup will not fit a 16" wheel either. I was just trying to find a way to use a larger rotor, solve the bracket problem, and be able to use stock 16" wheels.

MrDude_1 · 07-12-2003, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by machinist

And, you also have to remember, if you read the C5 thread, the C5 setup will not fit a 16" wheel either. I was just trying to find a way to use a larger rotor, solve the bracket problem, and be able to use stock 16" wheels.

ahhh.. that is true....

89 Iroc Z: id figure somthing out. im doing some research on GMs ABS systems right now.

89 Iroc Z · 07-12-2003, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by machinist
And, you also have to remember, if you read the C5 thread, the C5 setup will not fit a 16" wheel either. I was just trying to find a way to use a larger rotor, solve the bracket problem, and be able to use stock 16" wheels.

C5 rotors and the LS1 caliper will clear 16 inch wheels? I thought the C5 caliper had almost the exact same dimensions. The only physical difference between the C5 and LS1 caliper (that I am aware of) is the strengthening/cooling ribs. The LS1 caliper they are only at the end on the C5 caliper they go the whole length of the caliper.

machinist · 07-12-2003, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 89 Iroc Z
C5 rotors and the LS1 caliper will clear 16 inch wheels?

Read my post from 7-3-03 about the C5 rotor and bracket.

_max_ · 07-13-2003, 09:25 PM

will the 98-02 or the93-97 hubs fit our 3rdgen spindles i am sorry if this has been mentioned before i have looked and fuggen looked and fuggen looked

machinist · 07-13-2003, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by _max_
will the 98-02 or the93-97 hubs fit our 3rdgen spindles i am sorry if this has been mentioned before i have looked and fuggen looked and fuggen looked

It has been covered. Other than the 4th gen rotor and caliper, nothing off the 4th gen can be "easily" made to fit. We modify our 3rd gen rotors into hubs then slip "hat" style rotors over them. The newer style sealed hubs will not fit our spindles at all. Not even close.

I know if will be a long read, but to get completely up to speed on the front brake upgrades, read the C5, 1LE alternative, and LS1 brake thread completely through and you will understand all and be able to make a better decision on what direction you want to go.

MrDude_1 · 07-13-2003, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 89 Iroc Z
I have a rough draft of the bracket and dimensions of the ls1 brakes sketched on some engineering pad. I need to get some more measurements, finalize the design, and have my roommate CAD it out.

I will keep everyone posted on the bracket design. I haven’t had time in the last 2 weeks because I am focusing on school and all my free time is devoted to fixing up my car so I can drive it to Maryland this weekend for the thirdgen nations. I am trying to fix my stock brakes which are totally messed up (I have another post about this) can’t wait to ditch them and go with the LS1 setup.

Quote:

Originally posted by 89 Iroc Z
I was going to use the C4 bracket I designed and move the caliper bolt holes accordingly. I need to find a place around here to mill my hubs so I can check my LS1 bracket design and post it. What I do is print out the bracket from CAD and glue it to a sheet onto this epoxy/cardboard material I have then drill out the holes.

mmk, i know you're having some bad luck and stuff, but when is the brake caliper mounting bracket design going to be finialized?

and once it is, i need someone to make me a set.

am i missing anything from my parts list?
parts list:

hub from 3rdgen rotor: turned to 5.6"
LS1 rotors
caliper
custom earls hoses for proper length
caliper mounting bracket

question parts:
prop valve...?? should i get a adjustable one from summit?
should i / can i use a 4thgen master cyl and prop valve?

MrDude_1 · 07-13-2003, 10:39 PM

also.. i know this has been talked about but...

how confident are YOU at having the current setup get slammed HARD on the bumpstop at 140+??

89 Iroc Z · 07-14-2003, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrDude_1

am i missing anything from my parts list?
parts list:

hub from 3rdgen rotor: turned to 5.6"
LS1 rotors
caliper
custom earls hoses for proper length
caliper mounting bracket

question parts:
prop valve...?? should i get a adjustable one from summit?
should i / can i use a 4thgen master cyl and prop valve?

The hub size depends on your rotor “hat” size. I only need to turn mine down to 5.8. For the brake hoses it looks like we will be able to use either the stock thirdgen hoses or the stock LS1 hoses.

As far as a LS1 prop valve. I don’t think they have the same fittings as the thirdgen prop valves. But, if they do let me know. I want to find out what prop valve Baer brakes uses on there thirdgen “Grand Touring [GT]” brake kits. That would give some insight on what prop valve to use for the LS1 calipers. The GT kit uses C5 calipers which have very similar if not the same hydraulics as the LS1 caliper since they are based on the same design.

If the issues has not been resolved by the time I do the swap I am going to use my stock valve and then try putting in a 1LE valve and use whatever feels better.

89 Iroc Z · 07-14-2003, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrDude_1
also.. i know this has been talked about but...

how confident are YOU at having the current setup get slammed HARD on the bumpstop at 140+??

Do you mean your steering bump stops?? You will never use your steering bump stops at high speeds unless you have a death wish

. You only hit the bump stops when doing a U-turn or something like that. In order to hit the bump stops you must turn the steering wheel until it stops.

I am sure there will be no problem because the bracket design has been tested and proven by Bear brakes. I am just moving Bears mounting holes to accommodate for the LS1 caliper.

_max_ · 07-15-2003, 08:17 PM

well i havent been able to get on the internet cuz of work but i stopped at speedautomotive today and seen that the hubs would'nt fit

and thank you for the reply machinist :hail:

89 Iroc Z · 07-19-2003, 01:41 AM

This is a side by side comparison of the 1LE/C4 (top) pads VS. LS1/C5 (bottom) pads.

89 Iroc Z · 07-19-2003, 01:43 AM

I found a local machine shop today that has been around from before I was born. I brought my chopped up stock rotors that I needed to be put on a lathe and my LS1 rotor in for a fitment test of the hub. They did it all the machine work for $60.

The hubs were cut down to 5.85 inches outer diameter. The LS1 rotors have a small lip were the hub mounts and to make sure the hub makes full contact with the rotor a small amount of metal was taken off the outer face of the hub (show in the picture).

I am now able to finish my bracket design I will post it within the next week.

89 Iroc Z · 07-19-2003, 01:51 AM

Here is a picture of the hub in the hat of the LS1 rotor, fits perfectly.

89 Iroc Z · 07-19-2003, 01:53 AM

Here is a close up of the metal taken off the hub to clear the lip in the rotor.