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I was wondering if you guys thought it would be a good idea to put mobil 1 synthetic in my car. I think synths are better but I want opinions from people who may know better than I. It has 86000 miles by the way.
My first goal with this car is to make sure it runs reliably (just got the car).
__________________ 1987 Iroc Camaro 350 TPI. White. Nothing yet.
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I hate to say this, but you are probably going to get people on here telling you to just do a search on this topic. I know you're new though....just try out the search button before posting, you'll find a ton of info already discussed.
put in mobil 1 5w30. i picked up about 100 front wheel hp.
hehehe if you wana pop for the mobil 1 then do it. To me, i try to get the best for my car. Not the most expensive, just the best.
__________________ 87 Camaro Z28 305 TPI auto
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93 Caprice 9C1 350 L05 auto
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Maybe it's just me being paranoid, but I won't go below 10W30, synthetic or not, unless it's a sustained 20*F or lower outside. Even then, I hesitate.
Today's oil is way different from the oil on the shelf 5 years ago. It's still not the same as synthetic, but to each their own. Right now, I don't feel my motor (with 180,000 on it) is worth the synthetic. My new 350, after it's broken in will probably get Mobil 1 10W30.
I would not recommend putting any kind of synthetic in your 86,000 mile car. I had the exact milage as u have and my 305 motor never leaked one drop anywhere. Until I put 5-30 mobil 1 in and every single gasket surface started leaking. Which in turn my car started burning oil which I ran it 3 qts low in one week! So I got a bearing rattle which lead to the motor eventually blowing up! So my advice is continue using whatever u have been. And you will be just fine! But if you have a fresh new motor that has been rebuilt use synthetic in that. The syntheitic oil molecules are smaller then averege oil molecules so that is why it is able to get in and lubricate better, but if u have old gaskets then the oil is able to slip right past ur gasket causin a hellofva leak! Just a heads up man and I hope this is not to late
Originally posted by ontogenesis AMSOIL....AMSOIL is awesome stuff, i don't like mobil 1 (as much), i don't like royal purple (at all), just AMSOIL
You must like or need the extra additives and less actual synthetic lubricant base that AMSOIL provides. I know some engines can benfit from it, but didn't realize that there were so many. Any idea where AMSOIL gets its polyalphaolefin base stocks?
EDIT: I get the feeling you also have a BMW of some sort. If that's the case, do yourself and wallet a favor and disregard their recommendations for lubricant. They specify a hydrocracked (Group 3) "synthetic" oil, which is little more than a more highly refined mineral oil. "Group 3 "synthetic" is simply a "Group 2" mineral oil base stock that is further refined using propane de-waxing and severe hydro-treating to give a better, cleaner base stock. However, it is still refined from paraffin-based crude, just like all conventional engine oil. While the U.S. F.T.C. allows its makers to call it "synthetic", it cannot be labeled "synthetic" in Europe. It still contains random molecular lengths and all of the inherent weaknesses of mineral oil - because it IS mineral oil. It has NO synthesized base stock. By your statement, it seems you have already outsmarted the Bavarians and are using AMSOIL anyway. Good call.
__________________ Later,
Vader
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - "Everything should be made as simple as possible, and not one step simpler."
Daimler/Chrysler - Inventor and sole patent holder of the internal combustion transmission.
Originally posted by 86BirdSE Maybe it's just me being paranoid, but I won't go below 10W30, synthetic or not, unless it's a sustained 20*F or lower outside. Even then, I hesitate.
Today's oil is way different from the oil on the shelf 5 years ago. It's still not the same as synthetic, but to each their own. Right now, I don't feel my motor (with 180,000 on it) is worth the synthetic. My new 350, after it's broken in will probably get Mobil 1 10W30.
I would agree, but instead of paranoia, gut feeling, or opinion, I have science and experience to substantiate my position. I'll use Mobil 1 as my example, since that's all I'll use.
I use 15W50 in elevated temperatures and under more demanding conditions on engines that run with a bit more bearing clearance. I use 10W30 in colder temperatures and for everything else. The Mobil 1 10W30 has a pour point of -72°F, and pumping point of -48°F. Mobil 1 5W30 has a pour point of -76°F and a pumping point just below 10W30. Even a 5W-whatever mineral oil won't do that. I've parked my old Astro outside in -40° weather, sump full of 10W30 Mobil 1, and started it with no boost, no engine heater, and no problems. The battery barely has the power to run the key warning buzzer, but the engine cranks enough to fire. I also know it moves oil and gets lubrication. I know that if the temperature would be low enough to require the 5W30, the battery wouldn't turn the engine anyway.
Incidentally, the vapor pressure of gasoline at -45°F is essentially nil, so starting a gasoline engine at that temperature or below would require sufficient cranking to create compression heating and evaporation of the fuel before any combustion would occur. If the plugs didn't fuel-foul before the engine fired, you'd be very lucky. Your CTS bottoms out at -40° anyway, so no further fuel trim is available below that temperature.
By that logic, there is no legitimate reason to use a 5W-30 synthetic, unless your engine bearing clearances are so tight that there is no room for the longer molecules of the 10W30. Some engines are assembled that tight. Most are not.
If you're not using a synthetic, disregard the above statements. Your engine is likely already worn beyond anything requiring 5W-30.
Incidentally, that old Astro went 186,000 miles on Mobil 1 with no leakage, oil consumption, loss of compression, or mechanical problems. The alternate perspective would dictate that an older, more worn engine would REQUIRE synthetic to stand a fighting chance of surviving longer. I also have anecdotal evidence (measured from a tear-down) that a 110,000 mile 350 (MY '94 LT1) had virtually no cylinder, piston skirt, rod- or main journal, nor even timing chain wear after a life of Mobil 1 10W30. Even the ring gaps were not excessive. The absolute worst cylinder was only worn 4/10ths (that's 0.0004") beyond the production tolerances, and hadn't even begun to reach the lower end of the service wear limits - where machining would be required.
That evidence proved to me the value of Mobil 1 synthetic in anything I care to own or keep. Other brands of synthetics MAY be just as good. I don't care to repeat the experiment with possibly disappointing results, when I can purchase Mobil 1 almost anywhere. What's even better is that most Wal-Mart stores have 5 quart jugs of Mobil 1 for about $16.99 every day. That makes an oil/filter change about $20 - or what you would spend at a "Quick-Lube" chain for an inferior product, like Pennzoil or Quaker State with a Fram filter.
__________________ Later,
Vader
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - "Everything should be made as simple as possible, and not one step simpler."
Daimler/Chrysler - Inventor and sole patent holder of the internal combustion transmission.
Realizing that most of these guys are Ford people, and that we all can acknowledge that Fords need all the help they can get, it stands to reason that there must be at least a few clever people out there that are able to keep them running.
There are some really good technical points and explanations given, and it's worth reading most of it if you care at all about protecting your equipment. Perhaps our own resident chemical engineers (like the Moates family) can substantiate or disclaim what is stated there.
__________________ Later,
Vader
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - "Everything should be made as simple as possible, and not one step simpler."
Daimler/Chrysler - Inventor and sole patent holder of the internal combustion transmission.
as far as synthetics leaking...i really havnt experienced this.
Just recently i switched my daily driver with a 307 olds over to mobil 1 synthetic. The milage is kind of in question....but it could be as high as about 140,000 miles and no less than 80,000.
But i put the mobil 1 in and have been running it for about a month and i havnt seen any leaking at all. Which kind of surprised me, as all the seals and gaskets are the original ones from 1984.
I just happend to replace the valve cover gaskets after i switched over, not because they were leaking though. I just pulled the covers to look at something, so i changed them while i was in there.
But the original rubber gaskets were absolutly nasty, in about 8 pieces, all dried and crumbling. I was shocked that they didnt leak with the synthetic.
So i've switched over and had nothing but good times with it, so maybe i'm lucky or such.
I used Pennzoil in my old 2.8 and it lasted 113,000 miles and started knocking. now in my new(er) 2.8 I use Mobil 1 and K&N oil filters because I want it to last longer, but it's $40 for all that and I have to change it myself.
I use Quaker State, peak performance 10w30. seems to work fine. How can you really tell a difference in performance when using different oils? I know i cant
The not-so-scientific results I like to use are my eyes and nose, my ears and my trip odometer.
I look at the color and smell of the oil when it comes out. I look under my valve covers for deposits, as they accumulate there first, and I look at my oil pressure gauge in the morning when it's cold, nd again when it's hot and I'm sitting in traffic.
I listen to the engine when it's idling... do I hear anything out of the ordinary?
Trip odometer between fill-ups... what kind of mileage am I getting?
I've run mobil 1 10W30 one time in my bird. It idled a bit more smoothly, kept better oil pressure when warm and came up to pressure quickly when it was cold. I even saw a 2 mile per gallon increase on average over the life of the oil. In 3000 miles, it came out and conventional went back in.
I don't use it anymore in this motor because frankly, it has 200,000 miles on it, and runs just about as well on dino-juice. Since the motor is comming out of the car in March, I don't feel the need to continue using it. Again, these are just my experiences.
Man reading Vaders' posts always make me feel like I just spent days in a class very knowledgable. And I have seen pics of his tear down, very clean!!!
Also for Synth I have run all three weights I can find of mobil1 5w30 10w30 and 15w50, my engine with almost 100k miles only consumes about a 1qt per oil change (which is every 4k miles or so), which is nothing in an older engine.
Nobody here has mentioned Castrol. Castrol Syntec got a bad name because it wasn't "real" synthetic. Now, there's an oxymoron if I ever heard one, fake synthetic! Anyway, there is one Castrol Syntec that's way better than Mobil 1 and it's the 0W30 made in Germany. Make sure it's made in Germany, because it's to Porsche, BMW and Mercedes specs. Also, don't be put off by the 0W30 just because you don't drive in the winter. It just means it has a higher viscosity index and is actually thicker than other 30-weight oils at higher temperatures. It also maintains its viscosity longer than Mobil 1. If you want to read more about oils than you ever wanted to know, visit http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/
Realizing that most of these guys are Ford people, and that we all can acknowledge that Fords need all the help they can get, it stands to reason that there must be at least a few clever people out there that are able to keep them running.
There are some really good technical points and explanations given, and it's worth reading most of it if you care at all about protecting your equipment. Perhaps our own resident chemical engineers (like the Moates family) can substantiate or disclaim what is stated there.
Great thread. My take away from this Ford contamination is to continie using what I already use:
ok so the Po said he put Mobil 1 synthetic 5w-30 , i am thinking of going to royal purple 5w-30 synthetic, how do yall like royal purple compared to mobil 1
I have run Castrol High Perfomance for as long as I can remeber in all of my cars except I run Mobil 1 in my wifes Cadillac Eldorado ETC Northstar engine. Thats only because she averages 4-5 thousand miles a year on it. Prior to switching to Mobil 1 in her car it got only Castrol.
So I got a bearing rattle which lead to the motor eventually blowing up! So my advice is continue using whatever u have been. And you will be just fine! But if you have a fresh new motor that has been rebuilt use synthetic in that. The syntheitic oil molecules are smaller then averege oil molecules so that is why it is able to get in and lubricate better, but if u have old gaskets then the oil is able to slip right past ur gasket causin a hellofva leak! Just a heads up man and I hope this is not to late
is to continie using what I already use:
