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There is one important thing I think that has not been mentioned in theis article. When you are installing a t56 (or any manual tranny) into an automatic car you must install a pilot bearing into the back of the crank shaft. I'd never seen this mentioned in any of the articles here on third gen. I ALMOST forgot this. The pilot bearing is nessacary to support the tranny's input shaft. With out it the tranny won't last very long.
Originally posted by tojan19 There is one important thing I think that has not been mentioned in theis article. When you are installing a t56 (or any manual tranny) into an automatic car you must install a pilot bearing into the back of the crank shaft. I'd never seen this mentioned in any of the articles here on third gen. I ALMOST forgot this. The pilot bearing is nessacary to support the tranny's input shaft. With out it the tranny won't last very long.
Hehe that's almost a given. And acually.. in a few threads special like this.... to put the LS1 T56 in from a T5 bellhousing with adapter plate... you need a longer pilot bearing. McLeod has it. Forget the partnumber.
i read through this article it really does help a lot when doing the t56 swap. i have a 700r4 in my 85 z28 and i'm almost done doing the t56 swap. one thing that was tricky along with getting the automatic out was the original starter for the automatic car was hitting the t56 bellhousing. in this article some people have grinded down the tip of the starter so it would fit properly but when i did that i began to get holes in the starter and i still had a hard time getting the bellhousing to line up flush with the motor. so i recommend getting a starter from a newer firebird or camaro or just go buy one. i also noticed installing the mini starter the bolt was to long for one side of the starter so you may need to get a new bolt. hope this helps for anyone that has an automatic and was curious about the starter like i was.
Pick up a gear reduction starter from a 96/97 camaro with a manual trans. About $114lifetime I got mine. It spins faster, fits the SBC, AND lasts longer.
QUOTE
the first two wires you will need will be your starter saftey kill wires. they are the two large wires on the connector. you need to extend them to the clutch pedal... where the clutch pedal meets the firewall, there should be a switch. this switch gets pressed when the clutch is to the floor. connect the two wires to this switch.. you must have the clutch in to start the car. QUOTE
When installing the wires described in the quote above, from the auto shifter to the clutch pedal switch that must be pressed in in order to start the car, DO you have to have a wire harness or connector that plugs into the black switch that is connected to the clutch pedal assembly? or do you simple use wire connectors that will clamp onto the two prongs sticking out of the black box/button?
When installing the wires described in the quote above, from the auto shifter to the clutch pedal switch that must be pressed in in order to start the car, DO you have to have a wire harness or connector that plugs into the black switch that is connected to the clutch pedal assembly? or do you simple use wire connectors that will clamp onto the two prongs sticking out of the black box/button?
I'm not sure what you are asking. I just put crimp connectors on the wires at the shifter, onto the purple/yellow wires... then ran them over to the purple/yellow wires on the switch that I pulled from the junkyard.
I wouldn't try to use the switch without it's pigtail connector.
i read through this article it really does help a lot when doing the t56 swap. i have a 700r4 in my 85 z28 and i'm almost done doing the t56 swap. one thing that was tricky along with getting the automatic out was the original starter for the automatic car was hitting the t56 bellhousing. in this article some people have grinded down the tip of the starter so it would fit properly but when i did that i began to get holes in the starter and i still had a hard time getting the bellhousing to line up flush with the motor. so i recommend getting a starter from a newer firebird or camaro or just go buy one. i also noticed installing the mini starter the bolt was to long for one side of the starter so you may need to get a new bolt. hope this helps for anyone that has an automatic and was curious about the starter like i was.
NATE
this might sound bad but i clearanced the bellhousing, have been using it for 3 months now and no issues. and the only reason i didnt get the lt1 starter was i had a good one with a warrenty and couldnt see spending another 120 for a starter i really didnt need. has worked well will no complaints. and no cracks in the bellhousing and i beat on this tranny just ask around. lol
I snipped the pigtail out of the car I got the pedals from and then just soldered the extended wires into it and into the cut apart harness from the old automatic shifter.
Another starter that works is one for a factory 5-speed car. That's what I did when I did my swap.
I snipped the pigtail out of the car I got the pedals from and then just soldered the extended wires into it and into the cut apart harness from the old automatic shifter.
Another starter that works is one for a factory 5-speed car. That's what I did when I did my swap.
The factory thirdgen starter for a manual in town was $89 so I figured I'd spend the extra $26 for the gear reduction and the lifetime. I had a gear reduction on before and loved it so much better than the factory 80's style!
But that is another option.
I have to go get my T56 repaired now... unless I do it myself. I rebuilt a T-5 but I'm not sure about the T56. I have the tremec manual. 3rd gear just grinds and wont engage.
got my t56 install today and noticed that the hydraulics near where the rod from the clutch pedal pushes in that it's leaking a little fluid. what could be the problem?
could this be caused by not bleeding the clutch hydraulics correctly because we didn't really know what we were doing necessarily, we just tried to follow directions out of a Chilton manual. If anyone could explain the proper way of bleeding the lines that would be much appreciated. thanks nate
The clutch system should not require bleeding, unless you've replaced the slave cylinder or another component. Personally, at a price of less than $100 for the whole hydraulic system I just bought the new stuff directly from GM. Brand new, in the box, fully assembled, pre-bled, ready to go. Very hard to beat IMO.
A T56 rebuild is not for the novice, but if you've done a T5 and learned to set the endplays on the mainshaft and countershaft correctly then you should eb able to do a T56. One item is that if you change bearings you'll need a countershaft extension endplay tool to set this play properly. The Tremec manual gives a picture, but these are not available for sale anywhere. I had a machine shop make me one in a lathe. Cost me $60, but now I've got the tool forever.
A 3rd gear problem in a T56 could be a couple of things. One thing T56s are especially prone to is cracking the synchro dogs. This can cause shifting problems, or even a stuck-in-gear condition in either 3rd or 4th. D&D sells billet dogs that permenantly prevent this problem. A damaged 3/4 fork is another likely culprit. Get a steel fork for $49 and never worry about it again, if the trans is apart do this regardless of whether the fork is damaged or not; it's cheap insurance. Another possibility is the sliding sleeve or the engagement teeth on the gear.
Personally, at a price of less than $100 for the whole hydraulic system I just bought the new stuff directly from GM. Brand new, in the box, fully assembled, pre-bled, ready to go. Very hard to beat IMO.
A 3rd gear problem in a T56 could be a couple of things. One thing T56s are especially prone to is cracking the synchro dogs. This can cause shifting problems, or even a stuck-in-gear condition in either 3rd or 4th. D&D sells billet dogs that permenantly prevent this problem. A damaged 3/4 fork is another likely culprit. Get a steel fork for $49 and never worry about it again, if the trans is apart do this regardless of whether the fork is damaged or not; it's cheap insurance. Another possibility is the sliding sleeve or the engagement teeth on the gear.
I don't know if it's the area you are in, but GM in Vancouver, WA wants $225 for that pre bled setup. I bought the cylinders separate for $110 and picked up the line from a junk yard. Bleeding is cake. Just bleed it like brakes, and make sure you depress the clutch and the slave cylinder arm to bleed out air stuck there.
If it's leaking, you have a bad master cyl. Improper bleeding will only result in poor clutch engagement.
The local Tremec parts dealer facility said he figured it was the 3-4 slider with possible damaged synchros, and that the teeth on 3rd could be stripped away. So I'll keep in mind the other parts. What's D&D?
I'm having a shop look at it today. If they tell me exactly what's wrong I can probably repair it. I don't know about the end play bit. If it's in the tremec manual as to how to set it, I don't see why I couldn't. I've built several engines, and set up rear ends, some of that knowledge should help.
Wow, $225 is highway robbery. You'd probably get a better deal from a large online Chevy dealership like Salle.
D&D Performance is a company that sells Tremec and aftermarket parts for the T56. They are my primary parts supplier for the T56.
If you can set up a rear and build an engine then a T56 rebuild won't seem like that big a deal. You'll see what I mean in the manual. The countershaft is two pieces in a T56, and you have to set the endplay on both sections seperately, which is why the tool is required.
Shop said he'll replace whatever's wrong, all new bearings, typically with some new synchros (not sure all or what) and the steel shift fork for $300 incl labor.
I may up the cost and have all new sychros put in everywhere.
i have a quick question if your switching from a automatic to a t56 what do you do with all the lines that go to the auto. like the coolant lines and the electrical plug?
Get some plugs for the cooler in the radiator and remove the lines. The fittings are metric, but I'm not sure the size. Take the end of the line and go to the parts store and get two plugs.
finshed up the swap piece of cake but now my car runs like crap i don't have the vss hooked up it seems like it is missing its really slugish even when i rev it and the switch that was on the auto shifter i left it hooked up and its in park so when i was driving it i came to a big hill and the car had no power and died and now it won't restart help me.
I still have not really gotten a clear answer on how to bleed the used hydraulics, slave, and master i got from a previous fourth gen. Do i connect everything w/o the fluid in? Do i pour the fluid in and press the clutch pedal w/ the cap off of the resevoir? Or do i leave the cap off and compress and decompress the slave? I'm confused.
finshed up the swap piece of cake but now my car runs like crap i don't have the vss hooked up it seems like it is missing its really slugish even when i rev it and the switch that was on the auto shifter i left it hooked up and its in park so when i was driving it i came to a big hill and the car had no power and died and now it won't restart help me.
You have to have the VSS hooked up for it to run correctly. Otherwise the ECM thinks it should be running under essentially very low or no load (like when in neutral or park) and won't do all the timing and fuel corrections. Bad part is you need a Dakota Digital signal converter box to get the RIGHT VSS signals to the ECM and speedometer. Runs about $80-90 IIRC....
another thing people don't talk about is the speedometer. what kind of speedometer do people use? i have an idea of what to buy but is there one you can buy that will bolt right in?
Do not bridge the park/neutral switch either. The wires are orange and black and used to run the the plug on the shifter. It will make the computer think the car is in park all the time. Just tape the wires up and leave them unconnected.
Tape up the plug for the trans out of the way and forget about it. It won't hurt anything.
I run an Autometer electronic speedo in my car in a custom built dash panel full of Autometer gauges.
Do not bridge the park/neutral switch either. The wires are orange and black and used to run the the plug on the shifter. It will make the computer think the car is in park all the time. Just tape the wires up and leave them unconnected.
Tape up the plug for the trans out of the way and forget about it. It won't hurt anything.
I run an Autometer electronic speedo in my car in a custom built dash panel full of Autometer gauges.
woooooo ok you lost me on the first part i need to make the computer think its in gear all the time right because its now manual? i tryed to unplug the connector that goes to the park/neutral switch and it wouldn't start what do you want to me to do with the orange and black wires? ok do you want me to unhook the orange and black wires from the plug and thats it?
woooooo ok you lost me on the first part i need to make the computer think its in gear all the time right because its now manual? i tryed to unplug the connector that goes to the park/neutral switch and it wouldn't start what do you want to me to do with the orange and black wires? ok do you want me to unhook the orange and black wires from the plug and thats it?
*Leave the Yellow and Purple wires plugged in (they have to go to the neutral safety switch)
*Blue and Green wires go to the reverse light switch on the trans.
*Black and Orange wires are not to be connected to anything. (These wires when connected, tell the computer that you are in park. Disconnected means in gear.)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n8sz28
saw a picture of a hydraulic system that has a bleeder screw and mine definetly doesn't have one. so how do i bleed it with out the bleeder screw
Go buy a new slave cylinder then.
You're sure that you don't have a bleed screw, by an allen, directly behind where the line from the master plugs in?
Every one I've ever seen has one. New, used, etc.
Last edited by Twilightoptics; 04-15-2006 at 12:19 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
ok went out and cut the orange and black wires hoping that it would run smoother down the road but there was no change if i don't move the yellow and purple wires would that make it run crappy?
the yellow and purple wires run the "NEUTRAL SAFETY SWITCH" if those wires are not connected to a clutch based switch, or are not connected to each other (if not using a switch) the car will not start. It has nothing to do with driveability.
You may have something else going on. Did you have the distributor out? Maybe the timing is off?
I know to get to the upper bellhousing bolts I have to pull the dizzy.
is there any other way to bleed the system without the bleeder screw?
because i just bought a master cylinder and that was $62 and i believe the slave is the same price. if i have to buy a new slave cylinder i should have just bought the whole system both cylinders, lines and pre bled for $140
nope didn't touch the distrbuter or timing im going to wire up the dakato box as soon as i can i have the car running the yellow and purple wires are still hooked up to the factory auto switch
is there any other way to bleed the system without the bleeder screw?
because i just bought a master cylinder and that was $62 and i believe the slave is the same price. if i have to buy a new slave cylinder i should have just bought the whole system both cylinders, lines and pre bled for $140
Not sure if there is a way. The only way I can think of is to take the whole assembly out... master included.... . Submerge everything in proper fluid and assmeble that way.
You can't get a pre-bled setup from GM for that price anymore. It was $235 from the local dealer I called.
i also figured out how to bleed the system without the bleeder.
1) i pushed in the slave cylinder and clutch pedal and put fluid in.
2) used the slave cylinder to pull the fluid down so i release the slave cylinder out
3) took off the slave cylinder and while it was off pushed the slave cylinder back in and reconnected to the line.
4) i just kept doing that and kept up on my fluid level.
5) i also put the reservoir lid on when while sucking the fluid down.
6) i let out the clutch pedal and slave cylinder once fluid was fully in the lines.
7) just filled the reservoir to the proper level and was done
works great the whole swap went well and all i have to do is the speedo which i got yesterday.
any questions i'll do my best to answer them
thats the same box i just wired up and i have no speedo movment i used the insturctions that came with it mrdude_1's sgi 5 box was a early style so i don't think you should have hooked it up like his might have fried your box but yea im stuck to i must have power and the ground hooked up right because the light is on on the box i think it is getting a signal from the t56 because the light plinks when i stop and is solid when im moving
You don't need an SGI-5 to run the speedo if you use the Autometer, but if you want your ECM to get the right VSS signal, and/or your cruise control to work then you still need one. These items require a 3rd gen VSS rate to function correctly.
The VSS on the trans needs to have one wire grounded and the other is your signal feed. It doesn't matter which one does which. The raw VSS signal goes into the SGI-5, and the output to your factory speedo, ECM, or cruise module comes out the appropriate terminal. If you are using the Autometer speedo and the factory ECM or cruise module simply run a raw VSS signal to the speedo and the SGI-5, then connect the modified VSS signal to the ECM and/or cruise module.
