History / OriginalityGot a question about 1982-1992 Camaro or Firebird history? Have a question about original parts, options, RPO codes, when something was available, or how to document your car? Those questions, answers, and much more!
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I suppose, you have to come to the conclusion that unless light weight is ultra important (racing etc) it is just not worth extracting that kind of power, when the V8's have it by deffault because of their size.
200 big engine hp is always better than 200 small engine hp because the spread of power is far greater.
Case in point, VTEC honda engines;
good power for size, but only between 6000 and 8000 rpm.
go for a gear shift at 7500, miss it, finaly shift having lost speed, engine at 5200 rpm = very little power, loads of lost time untill the wild profile on the VTEC cam kicks in
unless you have driven a car with one of these engines you cannot appreciate the on / off power delivery
a rough rule of thumb, the area UNDER a torque curve is more important than the peak of the curve itself
Originally posted by 84 Challenge Yes...it's basically half a small block. Some parts, such as pistons/rods from a small black, will work with an Iron Duke. If you use a block from Kansas Racing Products, a V-8 head can be used. Check out this site....namely that pretty little engine. Yes....that's an Iron Duke. BTW....recently read about an individual getting 195hp out of his 2.5 Fiero. A tremendous abount of work/money was done to achieve this, though.
Brandon
Were you trying to show us a weblink in your post? You said check out this site........just curious.
philoldsmobile.....I'm fully aware of the difference between 200hp 4-cyl vs. 200hp V-8 thing. I also realize the tremendous amount of work involded in, as you say, extracting that kind of power from a small engine. Mine, I assure you, will never see 195hp. To me, once again, it's the WTF factor. Just having a 140+hp Iron Duke Camaro. Not alot of 2.5 F-Body's are still in existance. How many of those that are still alive are modified Iron Dukes? I personally would be the happiest guy in the world just to extract 140+hp out of mine. Which won't cost as much as you think. Here's (below) a brief rundown of what I'd like to do with mine. May or maynot do ALL of this. Got it off the S10 pickup board. Below might produce 140 -150hp per the S10 board. Once again everyone.....how many of you have a modified Iron Duke F-Body? I assure you....it's nothing more than a WTF factor. Just trying to think of some ways around lowering a V-8 into the engine compartment.
Block tanked cleaned etc
3.0 Stroke marine crank
Forged rods to complement crank. ARP 220kpsi bolts
Forged pistons 9.5-9-10.1 to 1 comp.
Stock head Mild Port and serious polish
Stock intake port matched, intake hole bored and "dug out a bit" , Holley TBI or a Bored stock TBI with a stronger injector
a mild cam that is still streetable
Header
MSD Ignition Box and coil.
I think this has the makings of a great car, GM could have done more with the 2.5 , turbo's perhaps? they could have given the 2.3 turbo mustang a run for it's money. instead it's just another missed opportunity.
Camaro's (and 'birds) are the kind of car that grow and change with their owner, making it yours is the most important thing.
The second most important thing is keeping us informed! I have never seen a 4 pot in the flesh! the long strings of V8's get boring. (ok, thats not true, these cars are never boring)
I think 125 - 140 hp (normaly aspirated) should see the 'maro move quite well enough, but the exhaust note will make people do a double take
Last edited by philoldsmobile; 10-22-2002 at 04:26 PM.
Now that I have a 2000 Grand Am as a daily driver, I have put my 84 on "PARK" and haven't been driving it on a continous basis. My plans are to keep this car a 4 banger but I want to do some things to improve the motor. Headers, bigger throttle body (if available), and other go faster (but it wont be too fast ) goodies.
Trouble is I know alot more about body and interior than motor. I want to go through this car nose to tail and detail it and make it a show car. Ive already started cleaning out the engine bay and found some rust...gotta get rid of that.
Even after this rebuild, I'm sure my 4-cyl will get boring (that's what I'm worried about). My last car (before the Camaro) was a 2000 Mustang GT with a 4.6 single overhead cam pumping out 260hp at the flywheel. Let me tell you, there's nothing like popping her in 3rd gear while entering an interstate and flooring it. With two great years of that, a 4-cyl of any type is a major step down. Dropping a V-8 in the Camaro, at some point in time, is inevitable. Then again, could always keep the Camaro as is & purchase an 82-84 Z28. But trying to prevent my yard from looking like a used car lot. Can't have it both ways!!!
Good luck Bill with your Bird! Mine on the other hand will rot in my yard for a little while longer. Still trying to get it running, amongst many other things.
Well I just found a Camaro with the 2.5L I am going to buy it for $500 on this coming tuesday. The reason I am buying it is because of the gas mileage and the price of insurance on it. Compared to my 86 and 88 Iroc-Z's.
Cleaned up my Iron Duke a bit. Took me 4 hours to this point. Many more hours to come. I don't drive this car on a daily basis anymore so I am going to finally fix all the trouble areas.
my next goal is to replace both "battery trays" and fix the hole in the firewall underneath my fan motor. Do some touch up painting in there too.
I want to redo the headliner, sailpanels, sunvisors and carpet too. I think that will really freshen things up a bit. I also want to strip the car down to bare metal and repaint it. This, is all reserved for the future.
My car is a sad story! There's a long list of things that "have" to be done. Then there's the "want" list. Don't even know where to start. This car is in such pathetic shape.
My brothers first car was a 1982 Metallic Dark Blue V4 Camaro. It had white wall tires & white side door moldings. No T's, no power anything, just radio, A/C, & pastic dark blue seats. He bought it in 1985 for $2000. He put another $2000 for new engine, trans, tires, paint, etc. & it lasted 2 years. What a piece of ****! It was the slowest, weak handling & when you stop at a light the engine would sputter.
Originally posted by billsfirebird The IRON DUKE is half of the Pontiac 301 Engine. No one really made the connection because the 301 died with the late seventies and the IRON DUKE didn't hit it big until the early 80's.
This is pretty ironic because I owned a 301 powered 81 trans am. Never made the connection.
actually, its the same as 1/2 as a 302, b/c the cid is 151 on the duke, and it uses the same 4.00 x 3.00 bore and stroke. i know that the 302 is a ford, but chevy made one too
i saw an iron duke 84 bird s/e w/50k orig. mi. in the paper for 700. i wanted it, but i already have 3 cars. also i know a dealership here in columbus, that sells crate iron dukes for $750
Originally My 82 was a iron duke car. When I got it, it was blown beyond recognition. I couldn't even get it to turn over. #1 piston had worn throught the cyl wall. The engine had a bent crank for a lot of years.
Its been slightly modified since
Later
Spud
__________________ 82 Firebird,408,Dart Iron Eagle 215's, "To be decided" Cam, 1.6 rockers. Currently being rebuilt TH350 Tranny, 750 Speed Demon carb.
Best et 7.94 @ 88mph in the 1/8th.
Well I finished cleaning up my engine bay...for the most part. Its getting too cold and Ive been battling sickness for the last week. I cleaned her all up and getting ready to house it for the winter.
Whatcha think? This is the cleanest the car has ever been.
Heres a shot of the car in my neighborhood. It was a little overcast. I wanted to get the car in a cool background with the leaves changing color and what not. The next day was sunny but about 80% of the leaves blew off overnight in a storm.
looking great bill, there is something so fresh and right about the way your 'bird sits.
PLEASE never swap a V8 into it!
I'm also rather jelous about your neighborhood, that looks a lovely area. The photo of your bird instantly goes in at about no3 in my all time fave F body photo's
Are your tyres smaller than the 6 and 8 cyl cars, my 8 runs 235 x 60 x 15 and my mates IROC's run 255 x 50 x 17 (i think)
Originally posted by philoldsmobile Are your tyres smaller than the 6 and 8 cyl cars, my 8 runs 235 x 60 x 15 and my mates IROC's run 255 x 50 x 17 (i think) yours look like 205's?
Actually if I recal they are 225x50x16 I wanted the stock size of 245x50x16 but they rubbed my inner fender. I had to go with the smaller size. Oh well. I didn't want to spend near $400 for tires and ruin them so I spend $350 on the 225's.
Check out the thread I started... "Fall Colors! Great day for my bird...pics inside" in the Appearance and Detailing board. There's more pics there.
That neighborhood is one of the oldest in my hometown. There is a park just down the street with some really nice homes too. i have the "servants quarters" at the end of the block. Its still home though.
By the way, just noticed how your car has that hose from the grill to the air cleaner. Need to find one for mine. You think the car would run differently without one?
Last edited by 84 Challenge; 11-12-2002 at 11:22 PM.
looks real similar to the one on the LG4 4bbl V8, it might be worth 1 or 2 bhp, because it ducts cool air into the engine.
I have just removed mine, because i fitted an Edlebrock air filter, however much its worth, it is less than the filter kit, because the car is quicker (but noisier) without it! it still runs great!
don't panic, you wont die without it, but it's probably worth looking for if you plan a restoration to stock, if you plan on go faster parts, forget it, go for a performance filter
My first 3rd Gen was an iron duke. That car got me hooked on the 3rd gen's too. It was a 84 4cyl, 4 spd. Black with camel interior. It had some aftermarket rims, but i picked up the originals from teh previous owner. That car has me hooked, imagine my surprise when i met my wife and she drove a 84 6cyl. its the car in my signature.
Just to add, after having a 84, i didn't much like the 85 up interiors.
__________________ SSG David V. Pierson
U.S. Army Air Cav
SOLD - 84 iron duke I4 4 spd manual with 140,XXX miles in excellent condition
SOLD - 84 V6 auto Firebird with 278,XXX miles in worn but mechanically sound condition
My play car (85) had the old duke in her. I pulled the motor just after I got it because of a rod knock. They motor sat for a year and was put in an s-10 for a temp driver. It just blew up, three years later! Any motor the runs that long with a rod knock is good in my book.
__________________ 1992 Pontiac Firebird 355/Six Speed - Soon to be 383 TPI powered with Edelbrock base and SLP runners.
1987 Toyota Pickup 383/500+ HP 10:32@132MPH - Driven to and from the track.
1985 Camaro SC 305 TPI - Built from spare parts and still faster than rices
1987 S10 - 377CID - Under contruction
"PROMOTE PEACE: BAN RELIGION"
"RYCIN Ain't Race'n"
Well....after many hours of throwing wrenches and plenty of fowl language. She's running after 6 months of deadness. Thanks to a few tobacco spittin', ******* mechanic relatives in East Texas....she running! Here's a short list of what I need for her to be pretty. Can't wait to bring her home to Houston!
1. New carpet
2. New headliner
3. New radio
4. New dash
5. New seats
6. A/C & Heating wire harness work
7. New exhaust
8. New door panels
Later,
Brandon
BTW....I was soooo close to basically wadding her up and throwing her away (almost sold her for $200). Me was so frustrated with her.
Last edited by 84 Challenge; 12-30-2002 at 05:34 PM.
POST NUMBER 1000 FOR ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHOOOO HOOOOO!!
What better place to spend it than the Iron Duke thread. Oh I have a tear....
Okay... Im fine now.
84 Challenge, What was the problem that kept you from starting your car? Was it electricle?
__________________ I NEED HELP...I'm missing 4 cylinders! billsfirebird 1984 Firebird - 2.5L IRON DUKE - 5 speed manual
WS6 sway bar and rims - 94 Firebird buckets seats My Cardomain Site!
John 3:16
It wasn't getting fuel. Fuel pump was connected backwards. They're also finishing up the new brakes. Soon as a new exhaust is added...me can drive her home!
Bill....is yours really a 5-spd? Was thinking of swapping mine over to a T-5 eventually.
Last edited by 84 Challenge; 12-30-2002 at 05:40 PM.
Originally posted by 84 Challenge It wasn't getting fuel. Fuel pump was connected backwards. They're also finishing up the new brakes. Soon as a new exhaust is added...me can drive her home!
Bill....is yours really a 5-spd? Was thinking of swapping mine over to a T-5 eventually.
connected backwards?
My firebird came with a 4 originally. The RPO and shifter plate state 4 speed. The guy I bought the car from installed the t5. Its alot nicer I would imagine. Get good mileage with it in 5 doin 70
Funny thing about it is....I dropped the tank once to replace the pump and dropped it a second time to check the connections . Oh well! At least it's running.
BTW...hate the 4-spd! Have to push shifter inward, then over to the left and down for reverse. Feels like the engine is racing in 4th doing 70. Will like the T-5 better. Had a T-45 (almost same thing) in my 2000 Mustang GT. Loved it!
Originally posted by 84 Challenge Well...mine is a no A/C & no radio car but with a spoiler! Doesn't that spoiler count for something???
Brandon
Mine has a spoiler, A/C, and radio. Stock one has been long gone.. The A/C doesn't work either. I couldn't imagine what the engine would be like with it on. Well maybe I can...I used to drive an 84 Chevette with A/C...what a dog!
Brandon....have you posted pics of your car yet? I can't remember....
I just picked up a HOT ROD magazine from 1983...has an article about a super duty Firebird....shows pics of the IRON DUKE with headers, new intake, heads, and stuff. Oh how I would like to get my hands on some of that. It gave all the suppliers and their phone numbers. Many of which I think don't work anymore but Im tempted to dial them!
I'll try and scan the article in and show it to you all...Just got to find a scanner.
No pics yet Bill. Don't have a scanner either. Just picture in your head an red 84 sport coupe with Cragar SS's on them. That's my car!
Brandon
Bill....I've learned quite a bit from S-Series.org. Been told to remove computer, throttle body, etc in favor of a 390 carb. Been told to also go with some nice Keith Black racing pistions from a 350, block bored ??? over, go with a 3.0 marine crank, port/polish head, go with a nice intake with that 390 carb, header, etc. But I hear if you wanna "play" with a Duke, you gonna "pay". Get a Magnaglow muffler and a K&N filter to start with. They won't produce much, but it's a start. Have fun!!
Originally posted by 84 Challenge No pics yet Bill. Don't have a scanner either. Just picture in your head an red 84 sport coupe with Cragar SS's on them. That's my car!
Brandon
Bill....I've learned quite a bit from S-Series.org. Been told to remove computer, throttle body, etc in favor of a 390 carb. Been told to also go with some nice Keith Black racing pistions from a 350, block bored ??? over, go with a 3.0 marine crank, port/polish head, go with a nice intake with that 390 carb, header, etc. But I hear if you wanna "play" with a Duke, you gonna "pay". Get a Magnaglow muffler and a K&N filter to start with. They won't produce much, but it's a start. Have fun!!
I have been keeping my eyes and ears open to possiblities of punching any more power out of my Duke. I have a lead on an 87 IROC with a 305 TPI in it that I may get to intall the motor into my bird....all ideas bouncing around in my head...Im not sure what I want to do to my bird. Ive been like this for the past 4 years...
Got that exhaust in today (thanks to FEDEX). Ordered the V-6 exhaust as there was no L4 option. It appears that it'll have no problems in the fitment department. However....the pipe diameter is CONSIDERABLY larger than what was on there. Hope that won't be a problem. In fact....looks like it'll free up some power lost long ago. Sorry guys.....just had to share the news. Can't wait to put it on!!!
I have seen alot of Iron Duke F-body's. Camaros more so than actual Firebirds. There all in the junk yards with their engines completely intact. Everyone strips them for interior parts. No one seems to take anything from under the hood except the headlight motors.
) goodies.
. Oh well! At least it's running.
