History / OriginalityGot a question about 1982-1992 Camaro or Firebird history? Have a question about original parts, options, RPO codes, when something was available, or how to document your car? Those questions, answers, and much more!
Welcome to ThirdGen.org!
Welcome to ThirdGen.org.
You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, join the ThirdGen.org community today!
They are pretty rare. There was a low mileage one in excellent condition on eBay a couple years ago. I knew another one would show up sooner or later. I emailed the seller to see if he could send me a picture of the cowl plate to post. If legit, it will have 604 and AQ9 on it. T-Tops were an option, not manditory on the '83 Daytona.
Hi Dan!
Nope! I never saw one either! Now it makes me wonder if there are any 15th Anniversary Trans Ams out there!
Too bad the car is trashed! I have enough projects!!
Heh, that guy on ebay... I got mine with the workin CFI and a good tranny (no body damage) and my interior was in about the same condition... Thankfully I got a much better deal than he was offering
__________________ I am - Fuel for the Soul
87 Firebird & 83 Daytona Trans Am Join the NJFBA
1) as you can see in your own URL reference, the offer was good for that night and that night only.
but more importantly:
2) look closely at those Daytona photos. You can see suspicious wave marks around the top edge of that car's door glass! You ever heard of a HARDTOP TRANSPLANT done to a t-top car? That's what happened here. The photo may be low-resolution, but the car's lines are smooth everywhere EXCEPT up at the roofline. Metal even looks jagged up by the rear hatch glass. The seats (gotta visit auction URL, I dont have the photo here) are totally demolished and puffed / ripped at the seams from the TOP down; that usually happens from leaky t-tops and not from abuse or UV decay. This car is fishy all around. The only way we will know is to have that car's cowl plate / build sheet and see if it has D80 or not. It's people like you who jump to conclusions that ruin the hobby for the rest of us, by spreading around unsubstantiated rumors. If you got the guy's cowl plate and it doesn't show D80, then I'm wrong. But until that point, do your homework...
And as a bonus to my theory, I am attaching the photos that show the wave marks and unsmooth sheet metal around the top of the door. If the car is an original hardtop, if must've been flipped and had a reconstructed roof, because if you look at how the sun is illuminating it, you'll realize the way it looks is NOT normal. There's something very wrong going on there. i.e. a sloppy hardtop transplant onto a t-top car.
What next, you gonna claim that pinstriping is original factory equipment too? Jeez.. I'm getting a headache. As for the $1000? You missed out.. it was good for one night.
Bottom line: There is not a shred of evidence that a hardtop '83 Daytona ever left the factory as a hardtop. If you have the evidence, let's see it.
good luck,
gt
__________________ FIREBIRD TRANS AM : WINS THE DRAG RACE STANDING STILL.
1985 base Firebird, LB8/F41/GU6/DE1, '82 T/A wheels, CB, 153k
1982 Norwood Recaro LU5/WS4/WS6/Y84, 3466 original miles
1984 Firebird S/E HO V6, LL1/WS6, 114k, sold 5/02, repo 9/02, kennedy
(1982 Trans Am WS7, GM Goodwrench 5.7L, T-10, daily driver, 88k)
ÆÆÆ Join 82Recaro forum http://ohok.com/82recaro/forum/index.php
Originally posted by kizz No you won't, for two reasons:
1) as you can see in your own URL reference, the offer was good for that night and that night only.
1) Like I really would have collected anyhow. Since you were the one who jump on the statement I made that “T-Tops were optional on the ’83 Daytona Trans Am”, by saying
“All 83 Daytona's got t-tops, every single one of them. Mandatory. That's the best way I know how to put it.”, and “Now.. if you can show me ANY 83 Daytona hardtop that came that way from the factory, I'll cut you a $1000 check tonight and I'll mail it off tomorrow, just for making that new discovery.”
you certainly must be able to back up your statements with some kind of irrefutable proof if you were willing to wager $1000. Let’s see it. Oh, you don’t have any? No surprise. It explains the limited offer. Try reading over again, nice and slow, the ’83 Daytona Order Sheet in the link that I gave you.
There were no revised copies of that order form. Pay particular attention to what is listed in the option package. Do you see were it says Additional Acoustical Insulation Exc. w/Hatch Roof (Gee, why would that be listed?), White Aero Cast Aluminum Wheels. Now look under Available Options: Hatch Roof, Removable CC1, Wheels, Silver Finned Turbo Cast Aluminum 15P(I’m sure you have seen these). If T-Tops were MANDITORY as you say they were, they would have been listed in the Option Package, not under Available Options as the Wheels, Silver Finned Turbo Cast Aluminum 15P are. As you said in your own words “That sheet right there is the very same piece of information I was going on. It says that t-tops are an "Available Option" for an 83 Daytona. Explain exactly how do you interpret T-Tops as being MANDITORY and that “All 83 Daytona's got t-tops, every single one of them. Mandatory.” from that document. Should prove interesting. Your usual “all documentation is wrong” or “I haven’t seen it so it doesn’t exist” type explanations are meaningless drivel.
2) look closely at those Daytona photos. You can see suspicious wave marks around the top edge of that car's door glass! You ever heard of a HARDTOP TRANSPLANT done to a t-top car? That's what happened here. The photo may be low-resolution, but the car's lines are smooth everywhere EXCEPT up at the roofline. Metal even looks jagged up by the rear hatch glass. The seats (gotta visit auction URL, I dont have the photo here) are totally demolished and puffed / ripped at the seams from the TOP down; that usually happens from leaky t-tops and not from abuse or UV decay. This car is fishy all around. The only way we will know is to have that car's cowl plate / build sheet and see if it has D80 or not. It's people like you who jump to conclusions that ruin the hobby for the rest of us, by spreading around unsubstantiated rumors. If you got the guy's cowl plate and it doesn't show D80, then I'm wrong. But until that point, do your homework...
And as a bonus to my theory, I am attaching the photos that show the wave marks and unsmooth sheet metal around the top of the door. If the car is an original hardtop, if must've been flipped and had a reconstructed roof, because if you look at how the sun is illuminating it, you'll realize the way it looks is NOT normal. There's something very wrong going on there. i.e. a sloppy hardtop transplant onto a t-top car.
What next, you gonna claim that pinstriping is original factory equipment too? Jeez.. I'm getting a headache. As for the $1000? You missed out.. it was good for one night.
Bottom line: There is not a shred of evidence that a hardtop '83 Daytona ever left the factory as a hardtop. If you have the evidence, let's see it.
Your theory is just that. They may be crappy pictures, but a transplant isn’t going to be done at the roofline. If you look at all of the pictures they don’t show the same. Try doing your own homework and get your own information straight before you start making your snide comments. What the hell does having D80-Rear Spoiler on the cowl plate have to do with verifying that a Daytona has T-Tops (CC1)?
“It's people like you who jump to conclusions that ruin the hobby for the rest of us, by ". If you got the guy's cowl plate and it doesn't show D80, then I'm wrong. But until that point, do your homework...
“spreading around unsubstantiated rumors”? “do your homework”? I’ll put my 25+ years experience in Pontiac’s Order Processing over your pitiful internet obtained misinformation anyday. Tell you what Bubba, its people like you that make people with experience and information not even bother with these messageboards. I won’t. Like I said, I will post a picture of the cowl plate when the seller sends me one. I will email him again and ask for more info and better pictures, especially the areas in question. Hell, I’ll send him a high resolution disposable camera to take them with. But until I get the pictures and info to post, I won’t waste my time on someone of your attitude and ignorance. I guess every message board has their handful of the type. Rather than learn from anothers experience and information, they would rather argue. I can’t say I wasn’t warned.
YOUR BOTTOM LINE: PROVE “ALL ’83 DAYTONA TA’S HAD MANDITORY T-TOPS". YOU DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK. I’M NOT GOING TO SPOONFEED IT TO YOU. YOU CAN THANK YOUR ATTITUDE FOR THAT.
Correction.. I was talking about D80 when all along I meant CC1 instead. My bad.
Fact remains.. nobody has evidence. The only evidence I have to go on is that very ABNORMAL roof on that hardtop daytona.
I mean, when I'm suggesting here is very simple: If someone has undeniable proof of a hardtop daytona, let's see it. Put up or shut up. Documentation can be wrong, and they OFTEN are. Till that day arrives that you can prove a hardtop daytona, stop spreading your fantasies as if they were facts.. I'm talking to 90TA here. And for your own sake.. learn how to spell.
Originally posted by 90TA I won’t waste my time on someone of your attitude and ignorance. [/b]
Obviously my opinion is on your mind and is important to you, since you brought my name up. You fuel the fire. So don't sit there and tell me you won't waste your time, when clearly you choose to do just that. I would never have replied to this thread if you hadn't mentioned me. That's the way it usually happens. "hey, I think I can get kizz into a corner with something he said in the past.. I think I'll do it, just for kicks", then I have no choice but to reply to the sensationalist comments thrown at me. This thread is a perfect example.
I will repeat it again for you since you don't seem to have understood yet: Show me the proof of a hardtop daytona, and I will shut up and I will admit I was wrong. Until then.. YOU are wrong. You're going on your gut instinct, your rule-breaker adrenaline rush of proving the stubborn kizz wrong. I'm going on the fact that every verifiable daytona I have ever seen, every last one with no exceptions, has been a t-top, and I have seen dozens. If hardtop was an option, surely by now ONE, *ONE!* measly verifiable hardtop would've emerged somewhere. But it hasn't. So it's up to you to prove your claim. And let me tell you, don't bother with photoshop editing.. I'm an expert at graphics and can spot a fake from a mile away. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand my challenge here. Lay low until you can meet it.
Hey, last week a saw a factory turbo 2008 camaro V12 with 900 seahorse-power. I've got the documents to prove it.
The photo may be low-resolution, but the car's lines are smooth everywhere EXCEPT up at the roofline. Metal even looks jagged up by the rear hatch glass .... the photos show the wave marks and unsmooth sheet metal around the top of the door. If the car is an original hardtop, if must've been flipped and had a reconstructed roof, because if you look at how the sun is illuminating it, you'll realize it is NOT normal. There's something very wrong going on there. i.e. a sloppy hardtop transplant onto a t-top car.
I have been in a body shop since i was 5, i would say that anyone that knows anything about body work knows that a roof would not be cut there and transplanted.
Those pics prove nothing either way, they are too low res. to be pointing out metal twists or odd patterns
Originally posted by 9D1BURD I have been in a body shop since i was 5, i would say that anyone that knows anything about body work knows that a roof would not be cut there and transplanted.
Yeah, you can roll your eyes, and I understand you've done body work, but you haven't seen everything. Nobody has seen everything. In fact they DO cut the roof there and transplant it. Go visit Mark's Custom Kits at http://www.markscustomkits.com/T-top_Conversion.html and you'll see what I'm talking about. Except in his case, he usually does it backwards (hardtop transformed to t-top), but the fact remains.. you've got a lot to learn yet, in the body shop.
If you look really close at an f-body you can see approximately where the roof meets the quarters, because there are weld marks, if you know what to look for. Better yet, look at a Classic Industries catalog, at the sheet metal.. look where the rear quarter panels go up to.. that same area. The same area where this daytona shows metal problems.
Good to see at least one buddy of mine can back me up on my theory.. thanks Don. And that's all it is.. a theory, an educated guess based on the knowns, not the unknowns.
I don't have much of an ego problem, so like I said, if anyone can prove that they DID make hardtop daytonas, I'll swallow my pride and admit I was wrong. That day hasn't arrived yet..
hey man, no hard feelings. I should not of rolled my eyes. I apologize.
The pic was so bad though, i find it hard to tell anything for sure.
And i have seen a lot of stuff come and go out of the shop, we mostly do hard hits or rollovers. If anyone can get better pics from the seller, that would be very interesting.
Kizz, I'm with you on this one... I run the 83 Daytona 500 TA website and I've never seen one (hardtop) either. However, if the orderform is correct then I suppose there is a possibility that a few might exist. I was under the impression that the Pace car option included T-tops... I wish I had a copy of my window sticker from PHS still.
Hey,
I Own a 1983 25th anniv Daytona 500 pace car edition.I will be happy to answer any questions for you guys.Just for the record,83 Daytonas all had the same front nose grills-ONLY-available to that specific car,wich was part of the new aero package- only available on the pace car line up-.Take the bra off and look at the grills.That will tell the story.also where's the wheels??It should have white Aero wheels.Truck.
Last edited by owna83dtna500TA; 06-17-2003 at 12:16 AM.
I work in Pocatello, ID and have PERSONALLY SEEN THAT CAR!
Yes, it is quite trashed -No motor IIRC.
It is 100% genuinly a Daytona though.
Hope that helps.
To put everything to rest, if you want, I can take ANY photo you want of that car, assuming its still in the lot.
BTW: The guy that owns that salvage yard is VERY high in his prices. He had a '96 Beretta Z26 for sale there and wanted 3995 originally. A few weeks later, he wanted $4995 according to the window sticker. Some kid bought it though...
Anyway, if ya want pics of that car, I can get them, I live VERY close to it.
Last edited by Dante93GTZ; 06-17-2003 at 12:31 AM.
It would be the same plate as in the picture billsfirebird posted. It is located on the radiator support just to the drivers side of where the hood latches. Thanks again.
