History / OriginalityGot a question about 1982-1992 Camaro or Firebird history? Have a question about original parts, options, RPO codes, when something was available, or how to document your car? Those questions, answers, and much more!
Welcome to ThirdGen.org!
Welcome to ThirdGen.org.
You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, join the ThirdGen.org community today!
I had no idea how impressive the car was at all. I wonder why I never read about the zf6 speed conversion in a third gen? I never heard of that either.
that tranny almost made it into the "heritage edition" camaro as well, before the project was scrapped (only the stripes made it to final production).
i also had NO CLUE how rare firehawks were. it's too bad that video is camcordered from the VHS tape and not a digital transfer. still, it should be included in the media section here on TGO. i'm PMing the site admin with a link to this thread.
Man that is a Bad *** video. I love old media like that. Nice trip down memory lane, thanks for posting it!
__________________ 1992 Trans Am "RARE 92" ----- Jamaica Yellow, L98, 147K, All Original CA car 1991 Trans Am GTA ------------*2,800 miles*--1st Place Stock, TA Nats 2009 1992 Trans Am "PMD 92" ------47K, Best of Show, ThirdGen Fest 2008 1989 Formula 350 "PMD 89" ....Sold.... Redline Performance Machines
words cannot describe how i feel after seeing this video. ive always loved the 91-92 formulas, and the Firehawk is the epitome of them. That video really makes me want one so bad! too bad i will never be able to afford one. Its a shame only 25 of them were built.
__________________ -Dan
Click sig for Cardomain SOLD: 91 Z28, original paint, 35% tint, 305 TPI, headers, high flow cat, American thunder cat back, shift kit, 3.73 gears, Lakewood adjustable panhard rod, TB cone filter, Superior Axle and Gear Evolution Series axle shafts, Energy Suspension poly trans mount, Jet Fan Switch, 255/50/16 Falken Ziex ZE-512. my video
That is a sweet video. Makes me want to forget about saving for a low mileage Iroc or 69 Camaro. I've always loved Firehawks but I never knew they outperformed ZR1s. I guess the Firehawk should be the King of the Hill, or maybe Queen of the Hill.
For those of us who can't afford a real Firehawk, just get a '91 or '92 Formula, slap on some Ronals, add a few key hipo parts, and you'll have a poor man's version.
I made a digital master of that video for my site TransAmGTA.com back in the day from my original VHS copy. I'm sure if you search the net hard enough, you can find that video, I'm sure someone downloaded it from my site and posted it somewhere...
__________________ www.TheFoat.com/92GTA1992 Trans Am GTA SLP: GMPP optioned "SLP Performance Parts Package" GTA, 220K Miles, Dark Jade Gray Metallic, LB9, 4L60, T-Tops, and Gray Leather. Documentation includes Window Sticker, Factory Invoice, Etc.
That makes me want a firehawk more than ever I knew they were fast, but I dint know they were that fast dang, and beat the zr1 in every catergory dang its a shame they never made all 250 of them
Anyone have an idea where the firehawk's are at? theres one in Brookings, SD near where I live, Its been in the big college parade every year.. Too bad it only coasts slower than 1 I'd love to see that type of performance in person.
Bruce Hawkins at Hawksthirdgenparts. com has one
Sam CHontos is trying to sell # 26
#1 was owned by SLP until around 2000 and its now in personal hands, its seen better days though, as I saw it at the '04 or 03 Trans Am nationals in DAyton.
#2 is in the Chicago area IIRC, it was recently sold and I considered buying it.
THe "98" race car pictured in the video was a race car and is one of 2 existing race cars that were made, there is no VIN on this car. I think #6 is the other number.
what do you mean by "priced so high"?? the car was an excellent value... lol i hope u mean priced so high compared to less optioned 3rd gen...
Granted when comparing the performance of the Firehawk to the NSX, ZR1, 348 etc, the Firehawk is right up in that category. Unfortunately the Firehawk still looks like a Formula with different wheels. THats not a bad thing, I think the cars look as good as any Ferrari...
The ultimate problem I see is the Firehawk does not look like something special, with the NSX, & Ferrari you get a ton of prestigue from driving one of those cars, its not something that everyone sees every day. Even to some small extent the ZR1 was a prestige to own & drive and there was a lot of publicity on the ZR1 to boot. Chevrolet pushed the heck out of the package, they even changed the tailights and I think the front air extractors to set it apart.
THe Firehawk on the other hand, does not look like anything special other than some aftermarket wheels and 2 badges, one on each bumper. The Doors for the most part were unbadged, although some did get the Firehawk logo before and after SLP got the issue resolved with Firestone. Driving down the street no one would know, unless they know about the car, its just not enough flash for the cash.
Even in todays market, there is a very small group of people who can afford a 91-92 Firehawk and who want a 91-92 Firehawk. There is a much larger market for the 348, NSX & ZR1, and a Firehawk is going to be tough sell... Even at Auction the highest price for a Firehawk to my knowledge at the Barret-Jackson Auction is around $18,000. Many of these cars are selling for the mid $20,000 range. #2 recently sold for $25,000 IIRC. I think as we get older, richer and wiser the Firehawk will take off in value.
Back in 1998 when SLP was selling #1 & #26 I offered them $12,000 for either one. When you consider that at the time a Typical Formula was selling for around $6,000, I thought it was a fair deal. Even today NADA, is the only place who has any values for the car, and they claim the market is around $17,000.
To answer your comment, "Priced so High" yes its an excellent value, but in some regards its not as a great a value. Not many people were willing to spend $40,000 or $50,000 back then on a prospect of 30 years.
Seeing as they only sold 25 or so, I wonder if the price was too high or if it was just not marketed right. The Turbo Trans Ams were $31,000 or so.
What I really wonder is in a high end ultimate F-body like this, why didn't they come with leather seats if the recaros weren't ordered? Make them all CD Player cars. With the stronger Dana 44 rear, how about a 3.73 gear ratio?
Actually after some conteplation on why the 91 - 92 Firehawk never recieved the publicity that it should have had was there was absolutely no model kits that I am aware of. Heck GM may have told the toy makers no, just because it might infringe on ZR1 sales, you never know, but thats purely speculation.
You take the other cars on the list used in the video and there were several model kits of the Ferrari 348, Acura NSX, Corvette ZR1 etc... What would have probably helped the sale of the Firehawk would have been those toys... Its amazing its truely a "Super CAr" for the era yet there was nothing that really helped it. SLP fought to keep it alive barely surviving bankrupcy from the demolition of 2 converted cars. Backwards barrier crashes IIRC.
John, since models tend to be purchased and built by kids, and the thirdgen platform Firehawks were only around for less then two model years, how would model kits have sold more of the cars?
----------
fire350tpi, I am not sure excatly what you saw, but I would find it hard to believe that the Firehawks did not have subframe connectors, given the amount of power that they were putting out in that flex-prone chassis. Perhaps that is what you saw?
Last edited by Bull; 11-13-2006 at 03:57 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
John, since models tend to be purchased and built by kids, and the thirdgen platform Firehawks were only around for less then two model years, how would model kits have sold more of the cars?
EXACTLY,
You are correct and I would also assume that most models are built & collected by kids, and it would not necessarily impact the initial sales of the car back in 91 & 92. However, all of those kids that built models of the ZR1, 348, NSX etc will indeed remember those cars as they age. At the crossroads where they become financially stable and their wives allow them to make a mid life crisis decision to relive their childhood dreams of owning a cool car they will remember the model kit car which they liked. Thus why so many baby boomers are drawn toward 50's & 60's automobiles. Its a loose theory, but i does have some merit, and how much it will ultimately change the values of the car will never be known, what I do know is that having a 1/18 scale version would not hurt the Firehawk by any means in its value, I would imagine it would only help it.
If you think about it, when companies make model cars of a current car its almost free advertising for the manufacturer.
Sorry John, I must have misunderstood your first post. I thought you had been saying that the presence of models would have led to more of the cars being built due to greater demand...I now see you mean that there would be more interest in them today, and hence a higher value.
I'm not an expert on the Hawks, but I seem to recall seeing at least one red one with a yellowish "Firehawk" script down low on the doors...it might have been in a Pontiac rag from the '90s. I'll see if I can find it.
If yo uwatch the video closely you will notice that there are some pictures with the center caps, some without, some with different color center caps.
THe story I have heard is:
As production started, Firehawk did a cease production on the name and logo since they still owned it. They kept production rolling, but the emblems were dropped. If you notice on the later Firehawks some of them do not have any center cap emblem, there is always the painted caps but the
The Door decals I know nothing about however some how Jim Mattison at PHS some how ended up with the intended decals for #26. He sent them to Sam (the corrent owner of #26), although I do not know which decals they would have been. As #26 had decals on the bumpers when I looked at it back int 1998/1999.
No, he told me that $14K was offered at auction but Ed did not want to let them go for that price. He basically told me also that if it was any other car I would have probably gotten it for that amount. As they also had a 4th gen Firehawk race car and the Ultra Z which he would have sold to me for that offer. I could have also gotten one of the 98 (non-official press cars) Firehawks for that price but they sold them to dealerships already. It should also be noted that there was 2 or 3 98 Trans Ams that were equiped by SLP with all of the equipment, but they do not consider them as official for some reason. (found that on firehawk.org IIRC a long time ago).
Interestingly NADA still holds a low value for the cars on their site, but I know of at least 2 which have sold for a lot more.
First off, Jim gave the door sticker he had for #026 to Mike, NOT Sam. Sam bought the car with the door stickers already applied by Mike.
Second, #002-#021 have the correct Firehawk Logo center caps. #'s 022, 024, 025, 026, all have center caps that match their body color with simply the word "Firehawk" on them in the same font as the rear bumper. I do not know about #027 for sure.
Now. ALL Firehawks got "Firehawk" on the rear bumper. Only a very small few got it on the door. Most others the stickers were not included as SLP kept them and others yet got the car and the stickers but not attached to the door. The second example is how Jim came to have the door stickers for #026. The last is why some cars and owners do not have them at all. I can think of only 1 car off the top of my head without looking at my database which had the door sticker applied when it left SLP and that's #003 that Glen now owns.
There was a dispute between Firestone and SLP but it was an on/off thing during the beginning of production so a couple cars got the logo and some did not. About half way through it was finalized that no more of the cars would have the logo applied.
First off, Jim gave the door sticker he had for #026 to Mike, NOT Sam. Sam bought the car with the door stickers already applied by Mike.
THat makes more sence. When I spoke to Sam, he had just gotten the car, I knew that there was a mixup somewhere and some how Jim ended up with the Decals. Either way, Jim ended up with the decals for some unknown reason. IIRC even Jim was unsure how he got the decals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 92GTA
Second, #002-#021 have the correct Firehawk Logo center caps. #'s 022, 024, 025, 026, all have center caps that match their body color with simply the word "Firehawk" on them in the same font as the rear bumper. I do not know about #027 for sure.
Now. ALL Firehawks got "Firehawk" on the rear bumper. Only a very small few got it on the door. Most others the stickers were not included as SLP kept them and others yet got the car and the stickers but not attached to the door. The second example is how Jim came to have the door stickers for #026. The last is why some cars and owners do not have them at all. I can think of only 1 car off the top of my head without looking at my database which had the door sticker applied when it left SLP and that's #003 that Glen now owns.
There was a dispute between Firestone and SLP but it was an on/off thing during the beginning of production so a couple cars got the logo and some did not. About half way through it was finalized that no more of the cars would have the logo applied.
From the pictures I have #16 does not appear to have the center cap Emblem... #21 does, so does #3, #6 & #11.
You know its funny (yet quite sad) that my 93 Cobra gets more attention and looks vs. Hawk #6. Even most of the local F-Body owners don't know about the cars.
Does anyone know if the door stickers are the same as the 93 cars? I heard somewhere they were the same sticker?
You know its funny (yet quite sad) that my 93 Cobra gets more attention and looks vs. Hawk #6. Even most of the local F-Body owners don't know about the cars.
Does anyone know if the door stickers are the same as the 93 cars? I heard somewhere they were the same sticker?
HEY you are the one with the firehawk!!! i emailed you about pics a while back, did u ever take more? my name is "DanTheMan" on my yahoo account
You know its funny (yet quite sad) that my 93 Cobra gets more attention and looks vs. Hawk #6. Even most of the local F-Body owners don't know about the cars.
Does anyone know if the door stickers are the same as the 93 cars? I heard somewhere they were the same sticker?
You might try firehawk.org... I do not know for sure, but the door decals do look like they are the same for the 93's...
I wish they would have used that same script for the bumpers, I do not like the block letters that SLP decided to use, In some ways I think it hurts the looks of the car more than helps it.... I love the script, and in my personal opinion the car looks too plain without it.
Great thread!
Does anyone know if the door stickers are the same as the 93 cars? I heard somewhere they were the same sticker?
They are slightly different as I mentioned on the phone a few months ago Things may have gotten confused because I also mentioned that a couple of 92 owners have a stickers with the 4th gen designed logo, although they are not applied.
Hmmm, I didn't think anyone would state otherwise, sorry Find online a good side picture of a 4th gen hawk, then compare it very carefully to this one I took of #003 when I had it...
Dont' mind the dirt and me in the background They were taken the day it arrived here in CA and needless to say I was very excited, lol.
Maybe Glen could take a better one for you if needed...
Hmmm, I didn't think anyone would state otherwise, sorry Find online a good side picture of a 4th gen hawk, then compare it very carefully to this one I took of #003 when I had it...
Dont' mind the dirt and me in the background They were taken the day it arrived here in CA and needless to say I was very excited, lol.
Maybe Glen could take a better one for you if needed...
Things may have gotten confused because I also mentioned that a couple of 92 owners have a stickers with the 4th gen designed logo, although they are not applied. 
They were taken the day it arrived here in CA and needless to say I was very excited, lol.
