i know some of you may laugh at the idea of even owning one of these cars, but im going to look at a 83 iron duke this weekend, to use as a daily driver. and the more people ive talked to the more ive relized very very few camaro or firebird lovers have ever seen a running iron duke in person, and thought that it could make a good resto project to take to shows along with my 87. im not thinking of winning any shows with it or anything, i relize it is a 4 banger, just thought it would be fun to take, im not looking to do a frame off resto or anything like that im realy just looking for some of the decals, like the air cleaner decal and some of the other little things, the cars in pretty good shape as it is(atleast looks that way) but i know atleast the wheels are no longer factory and the bay shows the wear of 20+ years of driving. any pictures of stock iron dukes or any info on them would be helpful, i can find very little info other than what shows up in the year tech sheets and thats very little info at all. i know there quite a few of you that will think its a waste of time, but i think their a neat bit of our cars history, and at 30mpg i dont mind having a 4 banger in it, not when i have my v8 sitting next to it lol

The 2.5L Iron Duke isn't a bad motor for a front driver or S-10 pick-up. Iron Dukes have very little horsepower, but make decent torque for their size. They are great for mileage in an S-10. I don't know if that's true for a Third-Gen. A 2.5 inline 4 cyl. vs a 2.8 V6 for mileage?, I don't know. A 3rd Gen isn't as light as a FWD or S-10 pick-up. I would guess you'll need almost as much dino-juice to get it moving. They have a tendency to need head gaskets, so be careful you don't have one that's been overheated or had is guts washed in water & antifreeze. I'd also try to upgrade it to a later S-10 Iron Duke, because they got much better as time went on. Check out the S-10 forums for more info on beefing an Iron Duke.

Best of Luck to You!

yeah im quite content with the 2.5 as a dd, i know im not going to be able to whip in and out of traffic like i do with my 383, but thats fine, actually the one im getting has a bad head on it, so im going to get one off a newer s10.

im more looking to see if anyone knows where i can get the factory decals or pictures of the cars when they were new or still in real good shape, as i know one thing that will need done is alot of detailing in the engine bay, the rest of the car is good but the bay is in need of some help. also what 3spd auto came on the iron duke, i dont have the rpo codes yet so i cant look it all up.

I had a iron duke in a 82 sunbird that I TRiED to blow up for allmost a year. Id run the thing outa oil and all. TOUGH little motor I was very impressed with it. Finally I got sick of waiting for it to die and pulled it and droped in a 3.8 LOL. There a great motor with decent torque and seem to run for ever.

If you want it for a DD, fix it up.

I can pretty much assure you, nobody else is going to care.

I'd bet that at car shows, the main reactions will be laughing, horror, and dismay that somebody would swap something that weenie in there (from people who don't know that it was stock). In short, nothing that could be considered "positive reinforcement". You certainly won't inspire awe at this mighty engineering achievement.

The S10 forums ( http://s-series.org is one I belong to)is a great suggestion.Also check out Fiero and Grand Am forums for info on them.Pontiac had an extensive racing program for them during the '80s.They are good pulling motors for I4.Are you going for completly stock or somewhat modified?

i dont plan to modify it at all, i just thought it would be neat to try to find some of the missing decals and make it look nice and new, ill check out the s10 forums to see what i can find.

as far as reactions at a car show, you would be surprised, there was i think a 84 bird with one last year at the carlisle show, and it got quite a bit of attention last year, i stood there for quite some time looking over the car(more because it was a very nice bird) but i didnt hear one thing bad about it, alot of people were curious about it more than anything, the guy sat there and answered questions for a while, he was there in 2005 as well, the pics on are on iroczone. http://www.iroczone.com/Carlisle2005/index.html

I'd say go for it if you want. I have a couple pics of an iron duke Firebird S/E I found on the internet. Looks like it just came out of the factory.






Just noticed the above post has the link to the pics....

The I4 Camaro & Firebirds are in the book "Cars you love to hate" its up there with the Pinto and Gremlin...

not to be mean or rude, just throwing it out there.

John

I agree that S/E looks like it just rolled off the assembly line.I wonder how clean,and complete,she was to start with.It's interesting the I4 was the base motor in the S/E and the V6 was standard in the Berlinetta or was it a credit option.

Also it's interesting where the power steering resovoir(sp) is mounted,same as a FWD application,and the battery is on the left with the I4.

I will have to go through the literature again but I belive the V6 was "Standard" on all Firebirds and camaros. THe I4 was a credit option...

JOhn

actually from what i have found atleast from 82-85 the i4 was the base motor for all sport coupe camaros and firebird(not sure if thats the proper term for the bird). something i foudn odd however was, almost all the places i looked till marked the base coupe with the standard engine beign the I4 but according to the engine info no I4 cars were known to be built in 86?

this is one of my sources
http://www.camarosource.ca/php/camar...pecs&year=1986
http://www.camarosource.ca/php/camar...eels&year=1986
http://www.camarosource.ca/php/camar....php?year=1986



just to clearify guys, i know these arent sought after cars, and most people think they should all have their engines pulled, but i also feel their a interesting part of the 3rd gen history, and while not worth the money to "restore" i think its worth the little bit of effort to clean up the car a little and replace some of the decals. just for interest sake.

For the Firebird, the I4 was standard on base level trim and the V6 optional. The V6 was standard for the S/E and the I4 was a delete credit.

Not sure about the Camaro but I think it was the same.

Wildjeff you're right about the Camaro being the same with I4 standard in the Sport Coupe '82-'85.The I4 was dropped sometime in late '84 early '85 as the base motor.Also it was also a credit option for the Berlinetta.

Just because it's base car doesn't mean it's not worth saving.Then you get an idea if what the entire lineup was like instaed of just the top tier models.

I took those pictures at Carlisle a couple years ago. The car was incredibly clean, and 100% original. That car was not restored. It had somewhere around or under 10,000 miles and was for sale for somewhere around $10k.

And 20 years from now sense everyone jerks the motor and trash's this car it might be worth a mint becousee of so few left LMAO

I am slowly coming to the conclusion that who ever wrote the Whte Book really had no idea what they were doing...

HEre are some production figures from the "White Book"
1986
Camaro Sport coupe, 4 Cylinder 99,608
Camaro Berlinetta Coupe, 6 Cylinder 4,479
Camaro Z28 Sport Coupe, 8 Cylinder 88,132
Total Production therefore: 192,219

On the previous page they have:
V6 production: 77478
V8 Production 114,741
Total Production 192,219

I am confused

John

I think they are neat cars to have to show for the history of the 3rd gen. I would like to have one. I have never seen one in person before. It may be the red headed step child that we would all like to forget. But it is part of are history. Adam :-)

its exactly cause of that kinda view that i want to do this.

you know, i respect you doing that, keeping it all original, i would do one if i could, but i would also have a V-8 one to, like you. keep us up to date with pics

Okfoz I hadn't noticed that in the "White Book" but it's there.Sometimes I too wonder about the "White Book".And if you look in the info for '85 it states that the I4 was available for about 3 or 4 months into the '85 with the 5 speed(what happened after - just with the 4 speed manual).But if you look through the '86 notes it states the I4 was cancelled early in production requiring an upgrade to the V6.But if the motor was cancelled wouldn't that make the V6 the standard motor?Plus I had misread it earlier and had to correct my statement above.Camrosourceca http://www.camarosource.ca/php/camar....php?year=1985
has the same info as the "White Book" for both '85 and '86.The "Cars & Parts Camaro ID Numbers" shows the I4 in the engine list for '85 and '86 but only in the engine list for '86.And the factory '82-'88 Camaro Parts catalog has the 2.5 listed under '86 codes but that doesn't mean it was available the whole run.

I passed up the chance to get a fairly nice running '85 Sport Coupe a few months ago for $300.00.She was straight and very basic except for the 2.8/700R4.Thinking about it now I wish I had gone back to get her.

The good old Iron Duke. The only Pontiac engine in a 3rd gen.

To clarify on the Firebird SE, particularly 83-84, it came standard with a V6 that was unique to only itself - the LL1 HO 2.8, as opposed to the V6 available for the base Firebird and Camaro.

I think it would be cool to restore something like that because you don't see it every day. I would respect a serious restoration done on the 83 you're looking at. That Firebird does look nice!

90TA I had not thought of the 2.5 being the only Pontiac motor used in 3rd Gens but that is a good point.

And was the LL1 2.8 HO the same V6 available in the Citation X11(sorry for the non 3rd gen question)?

I thought I was told that Pontiac took over development of the V6 2.8 Engine later the 3.1 then 3.4... Someone told me that Buick took the engine when the name changed to 3100 & 3400 in the 90's.

John

I think it would be cool to make it turbo and make the install look factory; it would defiantly get some attention then.

The Citation X11 had a HO version of the LE2 - the 2.8 HO LH7.
The LL1 was a HO version of the LC1 (the 2.8 V6 used on Firebird and Camaro)

Thank you 90TA for answering my question on the different V6's(especially since it wasn't direct 3rd Gen related).I wasn't thinking FWD platform versus RWD platform for the different motors.

Nice car... But just because it is rare and in perfect shape doesn't mean it is worth anything... Ever see a 1981 Omega Sport? Me neither... Super rare and historic in the fact that this was the first time any Car Manufacture had used reinforced plastic body panels... (three years before the Fiero and 10 years before Saturn)... Find a mint one and it is worth about $800!

For something to be worth something you need Demand>Supply...

The number of people that "have to have" an Iron Duke F-Body can probably be counted on the fingers of one hand.

Having said that...

I think its cool that you are stepping up and rescuing one of these... Conversation piece cars can be fun too!

like i said before im not doing it because i ever think it will be a collectible or even a show winner, purely because i think their a interesting part of the camaro history and worth keeping a few around, i mean it shows just how desperate chevy was getting in the early 80's in regards to full economy, i mean its like sticking a 2.8 v6 in a corvetteplus it will make a nice looking daily driver on top of it all

im actually surprised how many of you think its a half decent idea. i just thought it would be neat, because unless you've read thru the camaro history or have seen one in person most people dont even know they ever existed, i told a buddy about going to see it and his first response was why would someone swap a 4banger into a camaro.

Let me add, Somewhere in my "Third Gen" files I have a Con-sumer reports from 1982 where they tested 3 "economy" cars...

A 4 banger Camaro, a 4 banger Firebird and a FWD Daytona (I think)... Also from memory the Camaro won and Firebird came in last. Which like the rest of Con-sumer Reports... Makes NO sense.

I got to thinking about it and I vaguely remember a friend that graduated high school a year after me(June 1982)getting a 4 cylinder Sport Coupe for graduation.As I stated before it's a great way to show the other end of the spectrum in the model line.

And don't laugh to hard because the 305 did come in CA Corvettes in '80 or '81.Talk about the odd collector item(at least it wasn't the 267 V8 of the time).

EDIT:I believe you stated that the candidte has an auto and asked which one.The 3 speed would be the 200C(metric).

coldblooded, it would make a good daily driver or you could put the Super Duty parts on it and take out any stock V8 3rd gen F-body. Just the look on ones face of getting their V8 beat by a 4 cylinder would be worth it. It would be different than the done to death engine swap.

I picked this duke up last fall on this board. $500.00 and runs great.
I part alot of cars out so I had must of the parts to fix. I drive it every day to work. This is pictures of the car when in got it.

Good for you, save it and enjoy it. I enjoyed mine and sold her for $2500 a few years ago.

Hey it just made Time Magazines 50 worst cars of all time list.

http://www.time.com/time/specials/20...658527,00.html

No disrespect to anyone but I really liked the line, "...the Iron Duke Camaro (and Firebird) had 0-60 mph acceleration of around 20 seconds, which left Camaro owners to drum their fingers while school buses rocketed past in a blur of yellow"

John

makes me want to go out and race a school bus

I have always wanted one, and my buddy has a 82 Firebird 4 Cyl 4 Speed that I may be buying from him .

He bought it 2 years ago from the Original Owners, and got ALL the paperwork related to the car for the last 25 years LOL.......

I will be changing a few things, as I cannot leave anything stock, Stock is BOOOOOOORING.

It already has aluminum druns and bumpers, but I will be putting in an aluminum driveshaft, swapping the 3:42's for 3:73's etc.... mAnd I have a parts list form teh 80's for a fe wpower enhancements for the lil Iron Duke too.