Quote: Originally Posted by two-if-by-sea _ "=/=" ??? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_o...atical_symbols For casual forum posts =/= is accepted in place of ≠. Its just easier to type the 3 characters than to actually load the character palette, and paste the symbol into a post.

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WTF does this crap have to do with a third gen being on HPTV? I have never gone into a thread before and found it SO FAR off topic. Seriously. Get back on track or shut it down.

=/= ?????? Who the hell cares?

Why a TBI and not a TPI? Who knows, but it usually has to do with advertisers and their parts. Show the parts on Sunday...Buy them on Monday. Thats why they didn't do a Carb, because what parts do you buy for that? Usually a ZZ4 engine swap, and they've done that swap a million times on other vehicles. And thats also why they dont use used parts... who's advertising used parts? Nobody... The parts they get for the show are free, but the manufacturer thats providing the parts are paying a premium to get those parts talked about and bolted on.

Just wanted to chime in on this subject. I was surfing and ran into this thread. RTM Productions bought the car from me (I'm in St. Louis). The Green '92 RS is what I'm refering to. Everything on the car was stock if anyone was wondering. They bought it because it was a TBI/automatic tranmission car which was a very commonly car back in the day (more where produced). It fit exactly to what they wanted to show on their Horse Power episodes. The 3rd episode will air this weekend. Go checkout the powerblock site for times on Saturday and Sunday. The $600 was the budget for only the 1st episode (actually they were trying to stay under $500 per the Horse Power website). From what they told me, in the 3rd episode they are going to drop a pretty-penny in it. I'm definately interested to see it and what they are going to do! Mainly for the reason that I have the option of buying it back for the same amount they paid for the car. Thanks to those who think the car is sharp! I took good care of it. However, the HP did seem very weak. I guess that is why I stopped buying camaro's (owned a '78, '86, and the '92) and switched to corvettes. Still love the Camaros though..........

woah, that would be badass to have free work/parts put into a car and be able to buy it back for what you paid for it.

That is the sweetest deal in the history of mankind.

Maybe I should email them and tell them that my car is for "sale."

Apparently some of us are aspiring to be english professors(89gta). My usage of words and spelling doesn't matter. What matters is the point I was trying to make that they (hp tv) are beign misleading. I was wanting to make some of our teenage members, (that are working part time jobs while going to school and trying to make their third gens better) aware, not to fall into the trap of I can do the same thing for the same money. Besides, I work for a busy ems service and I was stuck in dispatch that night. So between answering phones, and dispatching ambulances for three different counties I was trying to post that info. Hopefeully I was able to make my point aside from my grammatical errors.

However, norm that is a very nice example of a well taken care of third gen. I hope you jump at the option of buying it back.

The third stage episode was on today; and as I was expecting, the results were depressing and uneventful. 178 hp at the wheels and 22 mpg. This stage they installed a cam, intake, new bearings, a crank scraper, and a new balancer. If they had simply converted to tuneport, they would have gotten higher hp and improved fuel economy than what they ended up with. They act as if this was the greatest thing in the world, with a gain of 30 something HP and 2 mpg. Big woo, this whole build was about worthless(not to be mean and cynical) and I am sure that the car will be brushed under the rug in the garage and never heard from again. And imagine that, next week is a new episode where they install a turbo setup on that red fox body they have. Imagine that. You get crappy results when you give a crappy effort. I sure hope they get a bunch of hate mail and rethink a few more stages to ressurect the project. The least they could do is install vortec heads!!

in addition to all the other negative response . did they not say that they had a $600.00 budget ???? must have had a free machine shop and many others . wish i could the same done for 6bux .

that was for just the first stage I think.

Ok so now is a perfect time for them to do that LS swap

yeah when i saw them yanking the engine i thought "awesome, i wonder what they are putting in it" total let down. then just to rub it in the 3rd gen guys faces they are doing the turbo on the fox body.

They could have done that in the beggining with mix & match of stock parts and been cooler,faster and more eff. The only reason to yank that 305 should have been because the price of scrap is up. If you want mileage buy a S-10 with a 4 cyl. and a stick.

That doesn't surprise me. The older guy (don't remember his name) on the show is a big time Ford guy. I'm sure that has a little something to do with it. The one guy that isn't on there anymore was the chevy guy.

that whole build was lame as hell.. skinnier tires.lol, what was that worth 0.111 mpg? im making an estimated 390hp and 420tq at the wheels on my 305. and never took off the heads.
actually 91/92 lb9's with high miles and stock, put down more power to the rear wheels than that car did.

I saw the 3rd episode, plus the others. I agree the build was a little lame. I saw them pulling the motor right at the beginning. I was alright, there doing a motor swap. Well, they didnt. They just rebuilt the motor and did a couple upgrades. Couldnt believe they rebuilt a 305 when they could of did a 350 swap. Not putting down a 305 but you can build a 350 for the same price and get better results. I thought they would of done atleast a fuel injection swap from a tpi car since that is whats done alot. I know it was a 600 budget but that sounds like it was just for the parts. Cost more than that to rebuild an engine with all the machine work plus all the other parts they put in the car in the other 2 episodes. The show is for the DIY mechanics on a budget and usally we dont have 10 grand or more to stick in an engine and tranny combo plus suspension and brake upgrades that they usally do on there show. Gettin 22 mpg is good (probably not going to get any better, plus they only gained a little over 1 mpg with the engine rebuild with a total of 4 or 5 mpg in all the episodes)but most people dont buy a third gen for the gas mileage or as there family car. I love to watch the show but with the builds they do, I dont have that kind of money to spend in my own car.

anyone know where i can watch the "Lean Green Street Machine – Phase three" video missed it

Imagine all of the fuel they could have bought instead of doing that crap build.

Well I'll get flamed for this but you couldn't pay me enough to convert my car to TPI. I've worked on it, built it and flogged it and I'm not impressed. On another note, They could have gotten much more out of that car with a better cam, More than just a 3 angle VJ on the heads and boring the 3704 to 50mm. Also they put a crap cat on the car and they really didn't tune the car to match the mods that they did so there was horsepower left on the table. I believe that if they properly tuned the car and threw in some gears with a better converter they could have had another 30+ horsepower out of that build and probably gotten more MPG out of it.

Yeah What a let down. I can't believe I wasted and hour and a half of my life watchin that crap. I mean If you ganna pull that mootr and rebuild it at least get rid of the crappy heads. I mean a multi angle valve job on those heads did that do anything for that car??? This is why I swapped to tpi. I'll lay that green machine to waste down the strip and at the pump.
That was just a pathetic attempt.

Couldn't have agreed with you more.

This is what they should have done and kept it cool and low on the budget.

Ported the stock heads. The works.
Either a 93-95 LT1 cam or A 88-89 L98 cam with 1.6's
3.23's or 3.42's with a GOOD posi
Bore out the Eddy intake to 50mm and chamfer the bores on the bottom side for better flow
A PROPER tune. I know the Rbob doesn't sponsor HPTV but they needed him big time. EBL Flash FTW
S10 2100-2300 stall
replaced some steel stuff with aluminum. drums, pullies free up rotational weight.

With that alone it would have made 210-230 RWHP 280-300RWTQ atleast.

The episode that had the cooling section, is it practical to put on an electric water pump? They said it would cool better and it just looked plain cool. Have to lose the water pump pulley and buy a smaller belt. Plus they put in a bigger electric fan. They said to help keep the temps down. I wont make it run cooler, just cool faster. Still going to run hot as our cars do. I will stick with my mech. water pump. The bigger fan is a nice upgrade though.

184 RWHP and 22 MPG. I have almost twice that much power and I get 25 MPG on the highway with my TPI.

TBI power!

Stage 3 was lame. They should have at least swapped out the heads for a set of vortech heads and a vortech TBI intake. Those two items could be brought cheap and would have a better improvement over those tbi heads.

I have not watched the episodes, and have no interest in it.

I have to say though, my car was originally TBI and I used to get 25mpg around town and 30-32 on the highway (with the stock 2.73 pegleg).

Yet they are only getting 22MPG???

Just seems odd to me....


PDG

i agree. i mean if what was even the point, other than to humiliate 3rd gen owners, they made it seem like our cars are garbage. 178 hp? what is that. not to mention they keep the peg leg, and install an electric waterpump? the heck, why not just stick a turbonator in there. sheesh. and then next week theyre turbocharging a ford foxbody mustang

anyone try e-mailing powerblock? They should read this thread.

I have been thinking about that myself, seeing if we can get a few more episodes. However, I think we will have to email rtm, not horsepower tv. I will see if I can find email address.

Cheers!!!

Did anyone notice that guy was wearing a "Chevrolet" shirt during stage 3? What a slap in the face to third gen guys, especially with the mustang turbo for the next build.

Ive been watching horse power tv since i was a kid, and of all the builds I have ever seen them do this is Probably the dumbest one. There's no point to it they just wasted money, and ended up with no results. I mean everyone knows of all the engines in our thirdgens the TBI is not the best to build on Im not dissing on TBI's.....I'm just saying they have to much working against them from the start, and require many mods to get them even close to the tpi's performance stock. Everyone knows how crappy the stock lo3 heads are, and they just left them. This project is suppose to be about getting good fuel economy.....hell my 350 TPI gets better gas mileage then my 305 TBI In my old RS. Another reason why there is no point to this build. Now that I think of it the last thirdgen they did on horsepower TV was a convertible firebird, and if I remember right it was a tbi too what the hell horsepower tv....

I think it was a very good idea for a show. How you can still have some modern muscle that you can drive everyday. The 305 is a excellent engine for that. I dont know the numbers on the 350 but for those who want to or have to commute in a car like that it shows how easy it is to squeeze a little more mpg and hp out of the motor. When I finally trade or sell my 79 and get one I may possibly do split duty between it and my 04 Silverado. That truck is only getting 16.4 in the city with it's 5.3 and I know I can probably get a little better out of a third gen and also get a little smile factor to go with it.

You should all send e-mail telling them what to do right and what to stop doing wrong!

That guy wearing the Chevy shirt, Joe, is a die-hard Ford guy. I'm guessing he lost a bet and had to wear that shirt. He mentioned at the end he was wearing the shirt because Horsepower TV is selling various shirts on their website, and he was promoting them.

Chuck was the other guy who was on the show. He was the die-hard Chevy guy.

Its definitely not good for our thirdgen image. No offense to our TBI brothers (I was a little harsh in my last post) but the TBI cars were the base models and just because it has a V8, its not the best V8 offered in our cars. For those viewers who dont know that info, our thirdgens just got laughed at for only making 184 RWHP.

For those that say the show was just catering to the advertising and putting those sponsors parts on the car, you're exactly right. These car shows and the magazines make money from advertising. The sponsors want their parts on the show so we the public will buy them. If they put non-sponsored parts on the car, or if they show the sponsor's parts are not a direct, easy bolt-on, then those sponsors dont get their money's worth and they stop giving money to the show. Horsepower TV is great for the average guy, but those of us with real mechanical knowledge know the truth.

I usually watch "horsepower" every week, I could only bring myself to watch a few minutes today. The mustang build- 900 freakin hp, and its the same car that already had a bigger cam, high performance heads, and nos. And of course, Joe had a ford shirt on this week. I've voiced my opinion about the crappy camaro build via email- I suggest everyone else on this board who feels shorted do the same.

info@horsepowertv.com

Is the former owner buying the car back for the original purchase price?

I also sent my opinion in as well.

yea i got all 3 on my tivo, saved them just because its 3rd gen related

a few things,

1~ they need to do a REAL budget build, parts from the u pull it, swap meet, and make your own with basic garage tools, (not a huge shop full of crap only 2% of the viewers have).....and no freebes from their friends at edelbrock, painless, holley, crane, etc etc unless they are going to give me freebes

2~ LOL at what they got out of that car, i have got more out of my TBI w/o a cam swap or head work, granted i dont have as high MPGs .... and mine cost alot less then what they spent (if the actually had to buy everything)

3~ Now we got a 3rd gen with some MPG and somewhat of a power gain, lets put a bad azz motor in a 3rd gen and do a real build up on one, im tired of seeing 100 rustangs and 4 gens on HP tv

4~ As said above, everyone needs to e-mail them and get them to do a real build on a 3rd gen.....and lets keep the email profesional

i know somebody out here has got to see it the way i do

I got disgusted w/ HPTV a few months ago when I saw an episode where they did some brake work (don't remember what car) and took the rotors to their "local" Midas!! All that expensive stuff in the shop and they don't have a brake lathe? In addition, they were slip-on style rotors so why not just buy new ones since that style of rotor is usually dirt cheap?!! Of course it was really just a shameless plug for Midas (who advertised during the commercial breaks for the same episode).

I did too along with the url to this thread.

well two guys garage aka crank and crome aka shade tree mechanic did a crossfire swap to TPI on a 1984 corvette a few years back episode 402

i like them better than tnn's power block horsepower tv

yea when they were they "shade tree mechanics" on tnn .... the original two Sam and ........ i cant remember his name to save my life, but that was a good show

Sam Memmolo, Dave Bowman, and Dave McBride passed on April 18th, 2007 due to cancer

I would have to say that these shows were aimed at a certain group. I am sure that it was in no way ment to piss off people about there Thirdgen. You guys just don't see the point of that shows. You want everything to be a big lavish jank and redo. Heck that car is clean why not leave it factory and just a nice driver. I actually liked the show that I saw because that is what I was doing a few years ago, it is aimed at the guy that DON'T have the bugets that alot of us do.

And yes did the gy by it back????

I'm a pofessional tech, and I cant for the life of me understand why anyone even watches those shows. Horsepower, Muscle Car, Trucks, they are just infomercials for new products. Sure they have a $600 budget that anyone can stick to as long as they have a fully equipped shop, a machine shop, and free use of a dyno. Hell those guys have tools and equipment that I dont even have acess to!
Plus the shows are edited to death, of course they have to make everything go smoothly so they get the check for whatever new part they are selling that week.
If some company came out with an amazing (or mediocre) new produt that only worked on 82-92 Camaros or Firebirds, gave them a fat check to promote on the show, then you will hear them swear that 3rd gens are the most amazing car in the world.
To add insult to injury the entire point of the project is flawed. How much would you have to drive that car to see your money back after spending $1500 (real world) to get 2MPG? Even at $4.00 a gallon thats 750 gallons of gas........

we are fully aware of it being a good show and a good car, all we want is to see a 3rd gen get a build like they to to the fox bodies and and the 4th gens, and on another side note, the need a real budget build one day on anything, like a make your own parts without $2000 mechines that only shops have, geting junk yard parts, or retro fitting some parts to work

Yes I would have to agree, I guess I was just glad to see a thirdgen

yea i agree, its all a sales show, its still fun to watch because its car related, just like car movies are fun to car people.......like truckers like trucker movies and trucker songs but you may at them

and yea they got a million dollar that just a small handfull of us have even access to let alone it in our back yard, and the budget was far from budget.
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hey some spotlight is better than no spotlight, and i KNOW you (and I, and everyone other TGO'er) would love to see a 3rd gen build like they are doing to that fox body