History / OriginalityGot a question about 1982-1992 Camaro or Firebird history? Have a question about original parts, options, RPO codes, when something was available, or how to document your car? Those questions, answers, and much more!
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I was browsing the classified ads and seeing some prices of anywhere from $2500 up to $9500.
I did a NADA and KBB on those years and I'm getting quotes of $800 - 1400, with $3200 being a near mint car. So in some cases the car is $6000 above those values.
My question is, where are these owners asking much as $9500 for thier cars? Even at that price, there are flaws.
Usually the value is determined by the market, are there people out there paying that much for a 3rd generation?
What i have seen is that low mileage and very well cared for stock cars can bring in significantly more $$ than average cars. There are really not a lot of nice 3rd Gens out there. Most have been wrecked or modded out..I'm not saying our cars are in the same realm as the 60's muscle cars but give it time and you will see interest continue to grow.
To me, I find that if the cars are in mint condition, it's the owners asking reasonable values ($4000 - $8000+), and KBB and NADA that are way, WAY off market value.
Mint condition, unmolested 3rd gens that are well equipped (IrocZ's, 1LE's, vert, etc) can easily fetch that much or possibly even more. It's also quit commen for minty originals to appraise at $15,000 or more. Mine's appraised at over $20,000. Of coarse appraisels do not reflect sale price.
What people ask and what people get are two totally different things. Your average everyday Camaro will bring about what book price states. As was mentioned, the clean low mile cars are getting much higher. You only need to look at what sold and for what amount.
87 IROC-Z, 3665 miles, 305 TPI auto with TTops, no leather, no 4 wheel disc sold for $15,000
and let's not forget the prices of 3rd gens on BJ or Russo, Mecum Auctions, etc.
KBB, NADA, Edmunds...in my experience all of the guides are pretty far removed from reality for a car in mint condition, or with rare options. A better test would be to see what cars actually sell for on eBay (selling prices, not asking prices). Even then there can be wild variations.
These cars are still new enough to be considered merely "used cars" by most of the guides; as a result, the guides assume they are all still depreciating! Sometimes it is difficult to get an agreed value insurance policy, for this reason. I had to shop several companies before I could get an agreed value policy on my car to match my $20K+ appraisal. "What? That's more than a 2002 Z28 Camaro books for, sir! And your car doesn't even have air conditioning!"
Enjoy the prices that you can get 3rd Gens for today because it won't last. If you're really in love with them find a nice stock performance model and hold on to it. When I graduated from High School (1977) you could pick up an 67-69 camaro on a two week paycheck. NOBODY wanted them, except us kids. In 1976 I picked up a Hugger Orange 69 Chevelle 396/375 hp with a TH400. It had 23,000 miles. What did I pay? $1,100 bucks... And I over paid, but I had to have it. I can't count how many $500 camaros and Firebirds I went through between 75-79. Those were the days for the 1st Gen. These are the days for the 3rd Gen.
Enjoy the prices that you can get 3rd Gens for today because it won't last. If you're really in love with them find a nice stock performance model and hold on to it. When I graduated from High School (1977) you could pick up an 67-69 camaro on a two week paycheck. NOBODY wanted them, except us kids. In 1976 I picked up a Hugger Orange 69 Chevelle 396/375 hp with a TH400. It had 23,000 miles. What did I pay? $1,100 bucks... And I over paid, but I had to have it. I can't count how many $500 camaros and Firebirds I went through between 75-79. Those were the days for the 1st Gen. These are the days for the 3rd Gen.
I disagree. Back in 77, a 69 Camaro was only 8 years old. Now the LS1's are coming down in price and the LT1's can be had dirt cheap. But the 3rd gens are already past the worth nothing stage beause they're semi old status. Now they've turned into collector cars. Many people on the board have 3rd and 4th gens and I would argue that the mint 3rd gens garner way more attention.
I disagree. Back in 77, a 69 Camaro was only 8 years old. Now the LS1's are coming down in price and the LT1's can be had dirt cheap. But the 3rd gens are already past the worth nothing stage beause they're semi old status. Now they've turned into collector cars. Many people on the board have 3rd and 4th gens and I would argue that the mint 3rd gens garner way more attention.
Mint, and/or clean performance 3rd Gens and nicely modified 3rd Gens are approaching collector status and are holding a respectful value, but the majority can be had for very little, like say $1200 bucks. Whats that in 1977 dollars? $800? What I was trying to say is you can get a 3rd Gen for very cheap. And, you can go to the parts yard and still scavenge for usable parts. These are the salad days for the 3rd Gen. "Get em while the gettins good!"
Three minutes of searching the "Camaros for Sale" I found these examples. 91 Z28 $1500, 87 $1500, 87 Z28 $1500, 90 RS $600, 91 RS $500, 87 IROC $1200, 85 IROC $1000, 92 RS $700.
I did a NADA and KBB on those years and I'm getting quotes of $800 - 1400, with $3200 being a near mint car. So in some cases the car is $6000 above those values.
Not sure where youre getting those values from....
My 1987 Formula starts at 2035 i think on NADA, with a 6035 "high retail" value. The base firebird starts at 2025, and has a similar high retail. The highest retail is the GTA, and it starts at about 2900 but goes all the way to almost 7800!!!...
From NADA
Low Retail Value
This vehicle would be in mechanically functional condition, needing only minor reconditioning. The exterior paint, trim, and interior would show normal wear, needing only minor reconditioning. May also be a deteriorated restoration or a very poor amateur restoration. Most usable "as-is".
Some of the vehicles in this publication could be considered "Daily Drivers" and are not valued as a classic vehicle. When determining a value for a daily driver, it is recommended that the subscriber use the low retail value.
Note: This value does not represent a "parts car".
Average Retail Value
This vehicle would be in good condition overall. It could be an older restoration or a well-maintained original vehicle. Completely operable. The exterior paint, trim, and mechanics are presentable and serviceable inside and out. A "20-footer".
High Retail Value
This vehicle would be in excellent condition overall. It could be a completely restored or an extremely well maintained original vehicle showing very minimal wear. The exterior paint, trim, and mechanics are not in need of reconditioning. The interior would be in excellent condition. Note: This value does not represent a "100 Point" or "# 1" vehicle *.
* "100 Point" or "# 1" vehicle is not driven. It would generally be in a museum or transported in an enclosed trailer to concourse judging and car shows. This type of car would be stored in a climate-regulated facility.
Key words have been highlighted. Note: a Low retail is something between a parts car, and a daily driver. Average retail is good condition, that someone would consider if they werent eating $$$. High retail is pristine condition, but not a #1....
Also, this deals with what a car retails for in real world, IN ORIGINAL CONDITION. Most thirdgens on this site are heavily modified. A car can be appraised for much more than NADA guides if you save all your receipts.
As well, limited edition museum cars are worth much much more, such as TTA, or Firehawks.
If you dont like the price, you dont have to buy it. If you thnk you could build it cheaper... well you sure could try.
My 0.02.
Last edited by scottmoyer; 11-19-2008 at 10:17 AM.
Reason: Removed profanity and language filter bypass
Thats not the point... A junker 1st gen goes for $5000+. The point I'm trying to make is now is the time to get the 3rd Gen you want. or the 3rd Gen you want to modify to whatever you like, Pro Touring, Drag, whatever. Or hold onto the one you have. I always regret getting involved in these "what are they worth threads."
I could see asking 10K+ for a "time capsule" car, something that has very low miles and is all original. Or, maybe for one of the rare models, like a TTA or 1LE.
__________________ North Texas Third Gen Association 1988 GTA 5.0/M5/3.45 LSD, T-Tops, Digital Dash, Leather - Current Ride 1983 Firebird S/E - Stripped 1995 Chevy 1500 5.7 Ext. Cab - Daily Driver
My 1987 Formula starts at 2035 i think on NADA, with a 6035 "high retail" value. The base firebird starts at 2025, and has a similar high retail. The highest retail is the GTA, and it starts at about 2900 but goes all the way to almost 7800!!!
Here's how my '89 IrocZ convertible came back as on NADA . . .
Mine's appraised at ~4 times the "Clean Retail" of $5,125. I paid almost double for it back in '00. And I wouldn't consider any offers for less than $15,000. But that's OK if I would be asking to much, it's not for sale anyway.
It does have somewhat average miles, but that's also taken into account during it's frequent appraisels throughout the years. I enjoy driving it ~3500 miles every summer.
Last edited by Iroctopless; 11-16-2008 at 06:36 PM.
Our time will come with the 3rd Gens. We are still sometime away from our cars generating as a whole the interest that earlier Camaro's & Firebirds do.
WHEN OUR DAY COMES WILL SHALL RISE AND BE VICTORIOUS!!!!!
Then you should be happy, because our day is right now. Thats what I was trying to get across. I really don't want to see the day that our cars are $30,000+ ...Seriously, it keeps people out of the sport, and makes it tough to get a decent Camaro. I would love to have a 68 SS Camaro, but I'm not prepared to spend the $40,000. I don't know what kind of 3rd Gen you guys drive, but if it would have cost you $15,000 just to start with, before mods, rims and tires, would you own it today?
Here's how my '89 IrocZ convertible came back as on NADA . . .
Mine's appraised at ~4 times the "Clean Retail" of $5,125. I paid almost double for it back in '00. And I wouldn't consider any offers for less than $15,000. But that's OK if I would be asking to much, it's not for sale anyway.
It does have somewhat average miles, but that's also taken into account during it's frequent appraisels throughout the years. I enjoy driving it ~3500 miles every summer.
Your using the trade in value guide. Which is a way for dealers to rip you off. Its appauling what they consider a trade in value for ANY car....
Anyways, if you go under classic cars (mine is considered a classic) maybe yours isnt yet... you get this. For some reason, NADA is convinced theres no classic chevrolets in 1989, but there are all the way up to 1995 and way before 1940's.... So i looked up value for an 88 convertible. Id imagine the value is close.
cant seem to attach a file. will try it again later...
For the most part KBB, Edmunds are useless after about 10 years If you notice those two guides only go back 20 years (21 if you include the current MY) (Edmunds goes back to 1980, but its worthless) Basically I have found that for the most part yeah, they are close, BUT they really do not reflect true sales. They basically take the Original price, and then deduct a percentage for each year and then in the end the price of the car is worthless...
NADA on the other hand goes beyond this and actually starts to appreciate cars over 20 years old. Check out the difference between Identical cars between 1989 & 1988 you will see that the difference is HUGE!. almost 3 times the value in one year!!!...
Here's how my '89 IrocZ convertible came back as on NADA . . .
Mine's appraised at ~4 times the "Clean Retail" of $5,125. I paid almost double for it back in '00. And I wouldn't consider any offers for less than $15,000. But that's OK if I would be asking to much, it's not for sale anyway.
It does have somewhat average miles, but that's also taken into account during it's frequent appraisels throughout the years. I enjoy driving it ~3500 miles every summer.
How did you get the $1300 for mileage I wonder? I poked in 89 GTA with 37,000 miles. I got 3500 and 1150 in the far right hand column.
For the most part KBB, Edmunds are useless after about 10 years If you notice those two guides only go back 20 years (21 if you include the current MY) (Edmunds goes back to 1980, but its worthless) Basically I have found that for the most part yeah, they are close, BUT they really do not reflect true sales. They basically take the Original price, and then deduct a percentage for each year and then in the end the price of the car is worthless...
NADA on the other hand goes beyond this and actually starts to appreciate cars over 20 years old. Check out the difference between Identical cars between 1989 & 1988 you will see that the difference is HUGE!. almost 3 times the value in one year!!!...
Help me understand the graph. If I'm understanding it correctly, the starting point is the origional cost of the vehicle (Far left, horizontal thin line).The 0-50 are the numbers representing the age of the vehicle. Then there is depreciation which bottoms out at around 10 years and flat lines before there is an increase in the value around the 15th year. The blue box represents the age range of the 3rd Gen, 82-92. 1992, being 16 years-old and my 84 Z28 L69 being 24 years-old. Here's where I think I might be reading it incorrectly, doesn't the graph reflect that a 16-year-old Firehawk as having less value than my 24-year-old Z28 L69? The way I'm reading it is my car is closing in on it's origional value (Horizontal Line)at 24 years-old than the 16-year-old fire Firehawk. It would appear that the Firehawk has 6 or 7 more years until it reaches it's origional value and my car has 3 or 4. I think whats screwing me up is the starting point does not reflect the base price of each vehicle.
Last edited by Kevin84Z28; 11-17-2008 at 08:18 PM.
1LE... wow a brake upgrade that should have been std, never knew what the hype was. Brakes sucked on all 3rd gens, until this "here is what you should have std" came on board.
L98 - who didnt buy one when they came out. Cool, A Corvette motor Ill will take 20 thousand.
TTA..... dime a dozen.
Whats left?
85 L69 WS6 5 speed, who has one?.......................
Technically...
1) If you can find a TTA for a dime, jump on it...
2) there was 27441 Firebirds with the L69 and 37,851 350 Firebirds ( does not include 1991 ) made. THe Rarest of Engines from 1982 - 1992??? The CFI with 22243 units total and 1555 Turbos in 1989...
If you want to get down and dirty there was 1665 L69 Firebirds in 1985 alone, BUT that is still 110 more than TTA's in 1989.
ALL L69's were M5 cars, and I want to believe that they were all WS6 or WS7 cars too...
1LE... wow a brake upgrade that should have been std, never knew what the hype was. Brakes sucked on all 3rd gens, until this "here is what you should have std" came on board.
L98 - who didnt buy one when they came out. Cool, A Corvette motor Ill will take 20 thousand.
TTA..... dime a dozen.
Whats left?
85 L69 WS6 5 speed, who has one?.......................
I hafta contest that statement....I had a 84 L69/TH350.
I was referring to the 1985's I should have specified that.
1984 was the ONLY year when you could have gotten the L69 and the A4 as it was the Top engine for the F-body. The CFI was gone and all the hardware went into the then new Vette's and the TPI was being introduced in 1985.
Interestingly enough 1984 was the ONLY year to not have a FI V8 for the 3rd gens...
No...But it has been so long, I COULD be mistaken. I just know that I never changed the tranny so.....
Then it was not the original transmission. The 3-speed TH350 was never used in the 3rd-gen. 1982 was the only year for a V8 with 3-speed auto and the TH200C was used. Starting in 1983 the 4-speed overdrive TH700R4 became the available auto trans behind the V8.
Back to the original thread, No there not worth that much, 3-5k for a good high mileage done car, 10-15k for a low-mile original. Give it a few years.. These cars will gain value soon enough. Look at the prices of second gen t/as and camaros.. doubled in the last 3 years.
I stand corrected...I looked up NADA's classic prices on my 85 Trans Am....it's 3000 / 6000/ 10,000
I was shocked honestly, I think I'm going to sit on my goldmine for a little while. I was about to let it go for $200-300 to get it out of my yard. (It's just a non-running shell basically...with a good title)
I was thinking that I can remember when the 1st generations Camaro's and Firebirds where still on the streets and I could buy one $1500 - 2500 all day long....same goes for the 65 mustangs.
Now your VERY lucky to get a "shell" with no front cap for less than $6000-7000 if it has a clear title.
Could be a good investment even if I don't do anything with it and just sit on it for a few more years.
The NADA classic on my Corvette was 10,000 / 21,000 / 36,000 .......and it's restored
It is a challenge to think of what the value of a third gen should be.
There is a range of cars out there.
They are still inexpensive. There are the cars that have been heavily modified, then there are the cars that are owned by "first-buyers", who like the cars and want to do good by them, but don't have the funds to achieve their goals and then the expected results happen.
So, yes, if it is original, low mileage, the value can be high. If it is high mileage, with many owners, and SPID missing, it becomes a real crapshoot and in many cases we are are own worst enemies.
On the other hand, I still think of the '69 Camaro I was offered for $100 12 years ago even if it was quite rusted and a V-6.
Check this one out. This guy purchased a car out of a barn, placed it on ebay with no reserve and a a buy it now price of $4,000. The car finally sold for over $226,000 and it didn't have the right engine, nor did it have the aluminum front end. Krazy stuff!
ok, nowfor a reality check. The cars that go for top dollar are unmolested. Swapping engines, aftermarket rims, racing seats and rollbars DOES NOT= higher value. Watch Barrett Jackson, how many cars going thru with racing seats and roll bars. I saw a guy on ebay that had a vega cosworth and put a V8 in. He thought the engine was a useless 4 cylinder and threw it away, then he thought he did something smart. It became just another vega badged. Also, alot more 3rds produced the 1st and second gens. Also, we used to laugh at the 40 yo overweight women who would buy the 3rds and think they were hot. Similar what is happening with the mustangs.
Of course they made more 3rd gens... they made them for almost 3.67 times as many years. 3 Model years vs 11 Model years.. In the end they made fewer 3rd gens per year, but more overall...
I read through most of this post about 3rd gen values and current prices....just want to provide some input.
I'm picking up this gem this week sometime. Simple barter for some video games...paid $0. It's an 87. LB8 V6, auto trans. Comes with 2 extra hoods, an extra bumper, and fender. Seals in the t-tops are good. Tranny slips...but whatever...I can throw a new one in from the scrap yard no problem.
depends, is the underbody as poorly cared for as the rest of the car? If it's rotted out, free removal might not have been a bad deal at all for the previous owner. Unless the unibody is somehow miraculously in excellent condition, it's only good for a handfull of parts. That's kind of off topic though. Everyone agrees that 3rd gens are dirt cheap unless you have a mint low mileage or a nicely modified example.
well about a month ago i bought mine for 1400 its and 82 z28 with the origanal 305 and only 185,000 original miles only four owners and other then minor mechanical problems its just needs new dash and rear interior pannels and paint job so idk either i got a good deal or other people are tryin to rip people off but also if alot of custom works been done to one i could see 6,000 plus
You did well. As a comparison, I bought a 1984 Trans Am last summer with 284,000 Km for $1500. Some minor interior issues and body dents typical of a 25 year old car and some minor mechanical isses.
I also bought a 1988 GTA for about the same price with 123,000 km.
So, where am I going with this? Okfoz started a thread about the "collectability" of third generations
Unless it is a rare item from the list, it unfortunately joins the list of typical great-looking, underpowered cars from blah blah blah era.
Don't get me wrong, I love third gens and have been driving them and only them for the last 22 years. Wouldn't have anything else. The problem is that I love them and we on this site love them but for most other people...
of course the value of thirdgens will go up,it's really up to the owners of the cars that they don't really care much about them,as to how many will be left.
a unwrecked clean looking 3rd gen,original or not will continue to climb in value,of course a low mileage all original car will bring in more.just look at 69 camaros with restorations done,back to original,brings in more then cars people made race car with.i have my 88 trans am,i almost sold it,then kept it and i'm so glad,it'll go up in value since it's srtaight as a arrow,but not a unmolested car since i'm still changing mine to be what i want and i have no intentions on trying to cash in on it down the road.i also just traded my 95 probe to a guy for his 79 z28,crazy,but that was when gas was bout 4.50 a gallon.strike while the iron is hot.those cars still have some way to go on value,still i'm not selling that either and i'm modding it.the way i look at my cars(hopefully there will be more to come),they are going to be past down one day to my son,what he does with them will be his choice.when that time comes,who knows what those cars will be worth.
ok just wanted to throw my two cents in because i recently bought a 3rd gen well moded and clean for 4k. i was in the market for a fromula or a gta but could not find any at all. every car that i would find would either be junk, tpi removed for carb, or asking way over what the car was worth and also contained major problems. the problem is that people have bought into the whole barret jack thing they think just because a 1st gen camaro went for a grip of money their junk in the backyard is worth half that. also i must say that there is a glitch in between generations, 1st gens big money! 2nd gens half and half because we all know the 70-73s are simliar to the 1st gens and the 74-81s are not as sought after. once again the glitch thats only the z28s because we all know about the black and gold ta's. then there is the third gen yes very important cars but no respect. we get overlooked by the fourth and well their are still some good deals out there and their are some idiots with junk. fourth gen the supposed gods of camaros and why because the ls motors yes they are fast and very street freindly but some people think they are worth just as much as 1st gens because they are not as old, and to mention ( ITS THE LAST YEAR MADE!=CRAP) this what i have seen alot of it may sound strange but just my two cents. also when i was looking for a third gen i found a 91 z28 305 tpi, beat body, crappy paint, ttops leaking and it had all four flats, askin 4k haha, i wanted to slap the guy in the face. i also found a all original 86ta tpi ttop very clean car original everything guy wanted 3k very resonable good price even with a broken steering colum. i guess it just depends on who you run into too, their still are resonable people with brains out there who know what cars are worth thanks also forgot the car i bought is 88 iroc,hardtop clean int, 383 stroker,afr heads,mini ram, griffin rad, iroc rims redone and all four disc great sound system, all it needs is tunning. i got a hell of a deal!!!!!
