History / OriginalityGot a question about 1982-1992 Camaro or Firebird history? Have a question about original parts, options, RPO codes, when something was available, or how to document your car? Those questions, answers, and much more!
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i have a Trans Am WS6 1991, Bright Red, Glas T-Tops, the Black Diamond Rims, 305 TBI V8..
The Grey Cloth Seats, base Firebird lights.., all decales, all center caps...
here some pictures
the car is absolutly orginal, just new brakes (2 discs and 2 drums in rear) and a new cat, ah and a chip from tbichips because i want rid of the speedlimiter. i want install a GMMG cat-Back and i installed a tranny cooler and maybe i will buy in a year or so leather seaths form a GTA.
the car has absolutly no rust, never driven in winter..:
the car has 80'778 miles
maybe you can help me, how much worth and how rare-or not- it realy is
Last edited by pascal_91ta; 02-05-2009 at 09:21 AM.
i have a Trans Am WS6 1991, Bright Red, Glas T-Tops, the Black Diamond Rims, 305 TBI V8..
The Grey Cloth Seats, base Firebird lights.., all decales, all center caps...
Two things throw me off, one the base Firebird lights, two to my knowledge the TA was only available with the TPI. Look at the Drivetrain list in the specs on the homepage.
Lastly WS6 was probably included on half the third gen Firebirds, Trans Ams, GTAs built.
Your car looks nice, but I think you may have bought a Trans AM clone. Look on your rpo list for WS6. If you dont see that code, then I dont think it would be a TA. It is possible someone robbed the TA tail lights and swapped the TPI, I have seen that done as well. Also all Trans AM's came with leather wrapped steering wheel, shifter handle, and e-brake handle.
Your car looks nice, but I think you may have bought a Trans AM clone.[...] all Trans AM's came with leather wrapped steering wheel, shifter handle, and e-brake handle.
Thank you.
Its a True WS6 i messed the diameter of the front sway bar. the VIN says its a Trans Am at the 5 digit (W).
The VIN says also its a L03 digit (E) on 7 digit or so.
my wheel, ebrakne....handle.. comes with leather
i think the TBI V8 was used for export cars, like the ugly side mirrors and tail lights because some law stuff (yellow turn light....)
unfortunately i havent speed control and RPO sticker .
also i have only metric gagues.
Last edited by pascal_91ta; 02-05-2009 at 10:21 AM.
Well if it is an export car the Firebird tail lights make sense because of European lighting laws as well as the Mirrors because I have seen those mirrors on Export cars as well as early GTAs. Also your speedo seems to be in KPH. The motor still doesn't click though. Camaro Z Man is right though. You will need the SPID sticker with the RPO codes to be sure look on the inside of the console it should be on the underside of the lid or in one of the storage compartments in the hatch area. I am thinking Export car maybe....if not a badly done clone.
Censor the last 6 numbers of the VIN. But submit it at your own risk.
Last edited by L695speed; 02-05-2009 at 10:32 AM.
Reason: more detail on possiblity of export car
well, the cars registered (get the license Number plate) in switzerlands first at 27.03.1991, i dont think that this will be a clone?!
the VIN also says "W" for TRANS AM and "E" for L03 TBI?!??i dont think its a clone?!????!??
i also have a swiss law sticker in the motor bay who also says its a Trans Am... i will upload a picture of it in some houres im not at home rihgt now...
think about the operating expense in europe for doing this in 1991.....
Quote:
Well if it is an export car the Firebird tail lights make sense because of European lighting laws as well as the Mirrors because I have seen those mirrors on Export cars
also the lights in the front are different, because the orange park light is not street legal here in switzerland. i will upload pictures when im at home
also the sidemarkerds in the front are also disabled, they just light when you "give order for a turn" (blink?!) sorry for my english.
__________________
Last edited by pascal_91ta; 02-05-2009 at 10:44 AM.
well, the cars registered (get the license Number plate) in switzerlands first at 27.03.1991, i dont think that this will be a clone?!
the VIN also says "W" for TRANS AM and "E" for L03 TBI?!??
i also have a swiss law sticker in the motor bay who also says its a Trans Am... i will upload a picture of it in some houres im not at home rihgt now...i dont think its a clone?!????!??
think about the operating expense in europe for doing this in 1991.....
Definitely an Export car then and a Real Trans Am the VIN leaves no doubt. Not many third gens were imported to Europe. Your car is probably to Europeans what a Renault R5 is to people in the US. Not many in the country or the continent thus it is a rare car in Europe. But bring it over here and with the exception of the LO3 and the Firebird Taillights and Mirrors people will think its just another Trans Am no big deal about it.
Export cars are definitely rare because of as you said, the operating costs of driving those cars in Europe not to mention exporting parts and etc for repair.
Guys, you need to remember that everything we know about these cars is based on US known production. The rules change on taillights for both the Camaro and the Firebird based cars used as exports. There are other differences like side view mirrors and side marker turn signals. This car is more than likely legit and the export cars might not have gotten the TPI due to import regulations on the motor.
Because of these variances, giving information on rarity and value is not something US based enthusiasts can provide. The value will need to be determined by local collectors and rarity can probably be determined by contacting the auto importers.
Guys, you need to remember that everything we know about these cars is based on US known production. The rules change on taillights for both the Camaro and the Firebird based cars used as exports. There are other differences like side view mirrors and side marker turn signals. This car is more than likely legit and the export cars might not have gotten the TPI due to import regulations on the motor.
Because of these variances, giving information on rarity and value is not something US based enthusiasts can provide. The value will need to be determined by local collectors and rarity can probably be determined by contacting the auto importers.
I am not trying to place a value or declare its rarity but I do know they are rarer and harder to find overseas than they are here.
all i know is the 91-92 trans am's are more common than here in the us.
car looks clean
more pics of the export mirrors? looks cool
__________________ --1991 trans am--SOLD
--1989 formula--bought for parts and junked
--1985 TRANS AM--JUNKED
--1983 firebird--RUSTED OUT
one day ill own a camaro and keep it.......i dont like firebirds lol
yes, here are more pictures, the Export Mirrors looks like damn ugly, there are plastic mirrors on every export car BLACK. i have here the Orginal US electrics mirrors, i will let them paint and mount them after the Winter:
Actually this car is not the first one to turn up. It seems that the Exported Trans Am was available with the LO3, Also they came with the Base Friebird taillights for some reason. I am not sure why honestly but I can assume that possibly they had the Base bird lights already approved in the country and it was easier than trying to get the new ones approved. Some countries force the manufacturer to pay for changes when they want to update a car, so the more they keep that is already approved makes life easier and save money. I would think they attempted to get the 91-92 T/A taillights approved but for one reason or another they were not successful. I suspect the Trans Am taillights were denied because the Amber turn signals on the outside may not have met standards as it would be reasonable to think that the outside lights should be Red as to indicate the edge of the car. I cannot think of any other cars where the furthest outboard light is amber... Someone will be able to think of one, but I cannot think of any.
(I work with the FAA and foreign governments for aircraft, I can only imagine that Auto is similar to Aviation as some foreign countries require payment to get new parts "approved" fortunately here in the US it is tax payer payed.)
John
__________________ 87 FORMULA - 5.1 LB9/A4 T-tops 3.73 Modified (Yellow/Black)
87 FORMULA - 5.0 LB9/M5 T-tops 3.45 (Yellow/Gray)
89 FORMULA 350 - CONVERTIBLE 3.27 All original (Red/Gray) www.3rdgenformula.com
Great looking car you have! I've got exactly the same story here. My T/A is from '91, with factory 5.0 TBI, base firebird taillights, WS6 package and 16" in. black Diamond rims and gray interior and 2.73 Limited slip. Only converted that ugly european mirrors to Us-style. One thing that disturbs me in euro versions is that front side markers are not working all time (only blinkers) and park lights are white instead of orange :/ ( it looks way cooler - I have canadian version firebird also)
The reason that they used the base firebird tail lights is because European countries require a separate amber turn signal indicator. The base Firebird has a separate amber turn signal light, where the Trans-Am has only the red lights and combines the brake and turn signals.
I guess Pontiac figured that using the base car's tail lights would be easier than trying to come up with something different only for export cars.
I've been through the corvette plant in Bowling Green, KY. The corvettes have red-only turn and tail lights, but any of the ones for export to Europe have an amber section on the bottom of the outside lense where there is a separate turn signal bulb and pocket. You could easily tell the ones that were bound for Europe because of the different tail lights.
__________________ F-bodies I own:
1992 Firebird 3.1 V6 (Used to have 75 HP nitrous shot)
1984 15th anniversary Trans Am (2 cars, future project to take both cars and make one good one)
1969 Firebird 400 4 speed. Actually has a 455 in it. Almost done with the complete restoration.
The reason that they used the base firebird tail lights is because European countries require a separate amber turn signal indicator. The base Firebird has a separate amber turn signal light, where the Trans-Am has only the red lights and combines the brake and turn signals.
I guess Pontiac figured that using the base car's tail lights would be easier than trying to come up with something different only for export cars.
I've been through the corvette plant in Bowling Green, KY. The corvettes have red-only turn and tail lights, but any of the ones for export to Europe have an amber section on the bottom of the outside lense where there is a separate turn signal bulb and pocket. You could easily tell the ones that were bound for Europe because of the different tail lights.
You are correct, they require the separate amber turn signals. Keep in mind however the 1991 & 1992 Trans Am and GTA used separate Amber turn signals in the lights as well. The 1982-1990 Trans am used a completely red as did all US firebirds and S/E's in 1982 - 1985.
One thing that disturbs me in euro versions is that front side markers are not working all time (only blinkers) and park lights are white instead of orange :/ ( it looks way cooler
In this case your car must have be put in circulation in Switzerland (or Austria?)
The orange T2057NA bulb can be found (it is also used on other cars), and like 50% of cases, the wires have just been spliced and put togheter differently and you may just reconnect as original. Other 50% have removed a long part of original wire.
In this case your car must have be put in circulation in Switzerland (or Austria?)
The orange T2057NA bulb can be found (it is also used on other cars), and like 50% of cases, the wires have just been spliced and put togheter differently and you may just reconnect as original. Other 50% have removed a long part of original wire.
Yeah... I will deffenetly turn that side markers on, with only tail sidemarkers car looks weird.
My car have also WS6 option so I think it's just difference among the engines compared to US versions, just lowest Trans Am engine ver. available in europe.
Last edited by Mark_Fbird85; 03-06-2009 at 06:40 AM.
My car have also WS6 option so I think it's just difference among the engines compared to US versions, just lowest Trans Am engine ver. available in europe.
...it depends on the european country the Trans Am first was exported to/market for...
...most (or all) the regular 91/92 Export-TAs for Germany got the LB9/5.0TPI...
...all the german licensed Tbi-equipped 91/92 TA-models I saw here in Germany were former regular Switzerland or Austria export-models...
(btw...regular RPO-codes for all european exports are "MAE" and "EXP")
@pascal_91ta:
a little in german (lazy for translation ):
...um Deine RPO-Codes in Erfahrung zu bringen genügt es, wenn Du einen offiziellen GM-Händler (kein Opel ) aufsuchst. Der kann Dir zwar keinen neuen RPO-Sticker besorgen, aber er kann bei Eingabe Deiner VIN in seinen "Service-Computer" die Codes explizit für Deinen Wagen abfragen/auflisten und ausdrucken... ...das funktioniert zumindest bei Fahrzeugen ab Modelljahr 1990...
__________________ ...nothin' special, but... 1991...340.000 km / 211.000 mls...ja und?
...first engine, first tranny, first paint, owner since 1992...
...and..."Standard of the World" Z-Rated 97 STS Northstar 4.6L 32V V8 http://www.bandit-online.de http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjwpETrmMUk
@pascal_91ta:
a little in german (lazy for translation ):
...um Deine RPO-Codes in Erfahrung zu bringen genügt es, wenn Du einen offiziellen GM-Händler (kein Opel ) aufsuchst. Der kann Dir zwar keinen neuen RPO-Sticker besorgen, aber er kann bei Eingabe Deiner VIN in seinen "Service-Computer" die Codes explizit für Deinen Wagen abfragen/auflisten und ausdrucken... ...das funktioniert zumindest bei Fahrzeugen ab Modelljahr 1990...
@pascal_91ta:
a little in german (lazy for translation ):
...um Deine RPO-Codes in Erfahrung zu bringen genügt es, wenn Du einen offiziellen GM-Händler (kein Opel ) aufsuchst. Der kann Dir zwar keinen neuen RPO-Sticker besorgen, aber er kann bei Eingabe Deiner VIN in seinen "Service-Computer" die Codes explizit für Deinen Wagen abfragen/auflisten und ausdrucken... ...das funktioniert zumindest bei Fahrzeugen ab Modelljahr 1990...
Rough Translation...
If you go to an official GM Dealer (Not Opal) They can provide you with a printout of your RPO's Not an RPO Sticker. A List/Query can be printed for your vehicle by using your VIN into the Dealer's "Service Computer". if your car is 1990 Model Year or newer.
I think I'd rather see base tail lights than the improvisations they did in early years...like this one, a Holland Import. I think this looks rather odd...
__________________ Bethany, 1988 Pontiac GTA
Click for info on FIREBIRD FEST OF THE CAROLINAS!
1983 Black and Gold Trans Am LG4--GONE, but never forgotten...
Two things throw me off, one the base Firebird lights, two to my knowledge the TA was only available with the TPI. Look at the Drivetrain list in the specs on the homepage.
Lastly WS6 was probably included on half the third gen Firebirds, Trans Ams, GTAs built.
I dont know what source that came from but there are plenty of TBI 5.0 T/A's I see one daily.
I dont know what source that came from but there are plenty of TBI 5.0 T/A's I see one daily.
IN THE US... The Trans Am was available with the 5.0 LG4 from 1982 - 1987 and the LO3 from 1988 & 1989. Starting in 1990 Trans Am's IN THE US got the LB9 engine as the base engine. If you wanted the LO3 you had to opt for the Formula or the Firebird.
1987
V6 - Firebird (S)
LG4 - Firebird (O), Formula (S), Trans Am (S)
LB9 - Formula (O), Trans Am (0), GTA (O)
L98 - Formula (O), Trans Am (O), GTA (S)
1988 & 1989
V6 - Firebird (S)
LO3 - Firebird (O), Formula (S), Trans Am (S)
LB9 - Formula (O), Trans Am (0), GTA (O)
L98 - Formula (O), Trans Am (O), GTA (S)
1990 - 1992 is pretty easy to remember
V6 - Firebird (S)
LO3 - Firebird (O), Formula (S)
LB9 - Formula (O), Trans Am (S), GTA (O)
L98 - Formula (O), Trans Am (O), GTA (S)
Not sure about the hardtops so much i have a 91 ws6 convertible and i know there was only 550 made that year with convertible tops. But you do have a very clean car!!
i dont really see too many 91 92 firebirds or trans ams... they are a rare site... but i never been a fan of the nose and somewhat smaller aerowing and side moldings..they remind me of a ninja turtle...i like the 85-90 bodystyle much better...
ws6 was a trans am,GTA and formula exclusive option(standard on the GTA and the formula) although i have heard that it could be had on the earlier firebird se
and the g80 is the code for posi-traction,limited slip and i guess it could be had with a base car someone correct me if im wrong on any of this thanks
I am not trying to place a value or declare its rarity but I do know they are rarer and harder to find overseas than they are here. 
- I have canadian version firebird also) 
):
1991...340.000 km / 211.000 mls...ja und? 
