I have been lurking on these forums for a while and I'm finally getting close to getting a third gen so I thought I might ask what you guys thought I should do. Also I apologize for putting this thread in here but it doesn't really fit anywhere else. Right now I have a 2000 Grand Am SE with 100,000 miles on it with no issues at all and I am seriously considering trading it in for an 87 Firebird Formula 350 with 156,000 miles. So it would be my everyday car. I expect to put some money into it but I'd really prefer it not to break down on a weekly basis. The dealer said the guy who sold it to him CLAIMED it came from a warmer climate so it wasn't exposed to the salt and snow we have here. It looks a lot better than a lot of other rusted out Firebirds I've seen for sale around here but that could just be that someone took care of it well. It definitely seems like it's in good condition, the paint isn't faded at all and there isn't anything wrong with the body. But also I don't know that much about cars. So based on your experience with third gens and just common sense, should I buy this as a daily driver? I'm going to drive it later this week so if any of you also have any suggestions of things to look for I would appreciate it. Here are a couple pictures also:

i'd get the vin# off the car and run it and see what comes up.

how much is he selling it for with that many miles? what's he gonna give you for the GA if you trade it?

do you live in a dusty area cause there seems to be a lot of dust under the hood.

He wants 3850 for it but he said he will do a trade +500 to me. He didn't even look at my car and said that though. It was in an accident and the rear bumper is shifted out of place. The CES light is on it's some gas line thing, my mechanic said not to worry about it.

What do you mean see what comes up for the VIN? Like decode it? Or a history report?

EDIT: No it isn't dusty where I live.

are you talking about an EGR code that your mechanic found??? if so then it is not really a big deal, have them completly check it out before buying, like a full vehicle inspection, worth the money to know what's wrong with it. on the vin you can decode it and the rpo codes as well, plus get a vehicle history report. The car looks clean...don't forget to add in thing like you probably want to change out every fluid in the car (rear diff, trans, coolant,oil, etc.) and maybe some tune up stuff. You never know when it was last done and don't believe anyone unless you have records or have it done yourself. Make sure to take it on a long test drive, like a full day. Try different driving situations and play with all the buttons,put some miles on it. Good luck, looks like it would be a cool car to have. Keep us informed.

Yeah it was an EGR code. I'm going to drive it home this week to have a mechanic look at it and drive it around. If I get it i'll definitely replace the fluids, didn't even think of that.

Only thing is I am pretty reliant on my car. I drive an hour each day for school and 5 hours every other weekend back to my hometown and I live out in the middle of nowhere.

How suggested is a history report? That stuff is expensive

No offense, but I wouldn't recommend a car like that as a daily driver. Definitely not if you have snow, ice, etc. The first thing you will run into is reliability. At that mileage, unless the maintenence has been meticulous things are going to fail regularly. The second issue is wet weather traction. TPI cars make a lot of torque, combined with wide tires intended for dry weather traction, they can be a real PITA when the weather turns. If you depend on your car for everyday use, you probably shouldn't even be thinking about buying a 23 year old performance car.

I expected things to fail but not regularly. As far as snow I figured getting snow tires and adding some weight in the back would do the trick.

If this is really the case that parts will fail regularly then I might wait until the money is there to have two cars.

Is there usually a point in mileage where certain parts start to give on a Firebird?

At 156K on the car, reliability is going to be a consideration for sure!!!! Even with snow tires and weight in the trunk it's not going to be a good winter car! An old Firebird or Camaro is a fun car to have, but IMO it makes a whole lot better second car for fun and cruizin' then it does a daily driver!!!

Alright I think I'll just wait then. I'm still going to drive it around though

Thanks for the responses!

The price on it seems a little high to me anyway. I bought mine with no rust, under 100K, and t-tops for $2000. It only has the V6 but I don't think would constitute an almost doubling in price.
I agree with most others have said, it would be a good DD in the summer, but not so much in the winter. I drive mine all summer then a little before Thanksgiving I pull out whatever beater truck I currently own. They are really fun cars to drive but I think the one you're looking at is a little overpriced.

I've had several thirdgens, some of which I've used as daily drivers. Depending on how well kept they are, the problems tend to snowball between 100,000-150,000 miles. The later cars tend to be built better and have fewer problems, but you can still count on having a failure that will immobilize the car about once every 6 months. Things like radiators, starters, alternators, water pumps, fuel pumps, etc... You can also expect a lot of regular maintenence, like heater cores, thermostats, brakes, exhaust, faulty sensors, wiring problems, etc.

Weight and tires will not make a difference budds. They SUCK in the snow.

Earlier up you also made mention that the car had been in an accident and that the rear bumper was shifted - I would also be concerned about some possible frame damage.

Drew's comment about the TPI torque is real. Just giving a little too much gas on a wet road and you can very easily have the back end break loose.

As for Daily Drivers, however, my V6/5-spped Firebird - with four snowies - is a tank in bad weather. The lower torque and slighter better weight distribution functions much better than the V8 imo.

^Still sucks in the snow compared to a fwd 4-banger.

Glad to see you're waiting on an f-body. Makes financial sense to wait, even if it isn't as fun.

i'd offer him $500 for it. like gta50 said there might be some frame damage. the firebird isn't worth what that guy is selling for or what he's gonna give you on trade.

you can find a much better one for a better price. weather you have the 4 or 6 in the grand am you'll save on gas for now.

Well although i agree with everyone here that car is flat out a complete rip off. Its way over priced and has been in an accident on top of it. Plus a 20+ year old car should not be depended on for daily driving. I really dont believe the reliability of these cars to be that bad but the key is maintenance. However that only holds true if your starting with a well maintained unmolested car in the first place which is hardly ever the case. To me there not bad daily drivers. I drive an 86 T/A as my daily driver but ive also got an 83 camaro as a back up and ive only owned third gens so ive very skilled at the winter driving end of things.

with than many miles im sure its a problem waiting to happen.... there must be a reason why he is offering you a trade with 500 without even really looking at your car...


i only paid 1800 for my car and my car was nicer than the one your showing


i was 18 when i got my trans am gta back in aug of 2006....back when i had the stock l98 engine and tranny with 130,000 miles on it, my car broke down every other week or had some sort of problem where i couldnt drive it... it was my only car and i had to walk to work for a year combined.... im glad i only live less than a mile from my job... for the first 2 years of owning the car it sat for well over a year fixing problems... after going through 3 junkyard trannies and blowing up the stock motor, i decided to build a fresh forged tpi engine and a probuilt 700r4 transmisson.... every since may of last year since i built both engine and transmission i havent had a single problem.. i have plenty of power for the street and i get compliments everywhere i go on how is sounds. couldnt ask for more outta my car. when these cars get old and have over 100,000 miles on them, problems tends to snowball into bigger problems... that car i wouldnt recommend as a daily driver unless u plan on putting in a fresh engine and tranny..

Some of you guys need to work on reading comprehension. He didn't say the Firebird had been wrecked, he said his Grand Am trade in had been wrecked.

$3850 may be a bit high right now, but it's still not a bad price if the car runs, drives, and has shiny paint. A 2000 Grand Am with 100k miles is a sub-thousand dollar car at a dealer/public auction. $1500 for that Firebird isn't a bad deal. He's probably eager to make that deal because he knows it's still easier to sell a Grand Am to some highschool/college girl or single mom, while that Firebird is just going to draw a bunch of meat heads with nothing in their wallets but lint and a 5 year old condom. A car like that on a small used car lot is a waste of time... It's a hell of answering questions, giving test drives, filling out papers, and then the kid can't get insured or mom and dad say no, or the kid finds a better deal somewhere else...

What's up with all the daily driver 3rd gen "haters"? Does everyone abuse their cars that bad? I treat mine right & it treats me right back.

I bought my 87 GTA at 175,000 miles...Now at 210,000 miles and it not only my daily driver, but my ONLY CAR! I'd have no fear of hopping in right now & driving to California or Florida (except that my front tires are pretty worn out)..

Transmission went out, sorta. Supposedly rebuilt a couple of years ago & stopped upshifting. Either I was hosed on getting a complete rebuild, or the previous owner who had it rebuilt got hosed. I think I did....

Anyways.....I still get 21mpg. Starts right away EVERY time.

The only time it has left me "stranded" was when the brand new GM alternator I put in went out 8 months later!

Location: Austin, TX might have something to do with why it works fine for you, but not for more severe climates.

My daily driver in Ohio for the past 4 years is a 1984 firebird 4 Cyl. Auto.
No problems getting around in the snow and cheap on gas.

The Iron Duke probably doesn't have the torque to spin the tires in the snow, lol.

I just dislike an f-body as a daily driver. 20 years old, really only 2 seats (I've got a kid), can't haul anything big, can't haul anything dirty, sucks on ice....

I DD my 88 winter and summer. Cheap set of wheels with snow tires make a world of difference. It's good in the snow till it starts plowing with the nose LOL(about 9"). I guess its what your used to driving. I always have had rear wheel drive cars for DD. Now if I lived in Buffalo or someplace that gets crazy amounts of snow, I'd think otherwise. Now to the OP question of that car. It looks real clean(other than engine), but mileage would scare me a little. If you are the type of person that is not afraid of maintaining a 20-25YO vehicle, I say go for it.

I don't think it should be too bad. Everybody says "OMG careful these things fishtail in the rain like crazy!" Not true if you have decent tires and a light foot in the rain. I've driven my 91 T/A in rain a few times when my DD was out of service. My tires are pretty bald too lol. I had to drive my t/a in some snowy/rainy mix crap a week ago (not accumulating though) for about 10 minutes and I didn't lose traction at all. Just take it easy and you should be fine. Although I did have a close call once... I was accelerating up a curve on a hill and I felt the rear end breaking loose. But the second I let off the gas the car straightened itself out. This probably wouldn't have happened if I had better tires. lol. What state are you from anyway?

But I can't say anything regarding reliability since I didn't have my car long enough.

But I do have the 305 TPI which doesn't put out as much as your 350, but it shouldn't make a huge difference. Maybe in the crappier months you can detune your ECU or something?

If the car really is rust free it likely wont be if you DD it in the winter. These cars had bad rust proofing so even if you are religious about cleaning it in the winter months it'll start to go.

Winter tires with a narower tread width will help a lot, if the car stays at stock ride height you can even pirate a set of wheels and tires from an S10/Blazer or Astrovan. Just look for narow wheels/tires and an open tread pattern thats not quite a bogger or rock crawler type pattern. If you can find a set of winter tires on one of these trucks you'll be even better off.

FWD certainly dose not guarantee mobility in the snow, my Mazda (V6 FWD) and my friends Honda (4 banger FWD) both suck in the snow, only my nearly bald tires make the T/A measurably worse.

You can always ziebart the car. That should help keep rust at bay. That's what I'd do if I had a thirdgen as a DD.

My rockers rotted from the inside, I bought the car thinking it was nearly perfect then I put my hand through what looked to be mint sheet metal.

The issue has as much to do with bad drainage as with any coating that was applied.

Is that common though?

My camaro I've had since I was in high school. It was a winter car for one year. It could'nt make it up some hills without spinning the tires. I would find a cheap pickup for winters, road salt and bad weather. And have fun during the summer with the firebird.

Nearly every third gen I have seen has been rotten through in the same 2 areas as my car (just in front of the doors around the same level as the floor pan) and since the only place for water and junk to collect is inside the rocker boxes I have to assume that's tho main reason this spot in particular is consistantly rotten.

Water and debris collects in the rockers from the cowl vents and causes the rot to begin, much of the debris is leaves that fall oll over the car then get trapped.

The rockers might have more to do with out door storage and neglect but fender/wheel well rot and many other places are vulnerable to road salt and trapped moisture.

Oh that makes sense, do you think convertibles are affected as well? Since they have slightly different construction in those areas. I haven't really noticed any rot in mine... yet. Hopefully never lol.

That's a good idea, maybe your best bet. On craigslist you can find a running 4x4 for $1000, maybe less if you're good at haggling. You can probably switch the insurance policies and keep the car that you're driving for the season insured if you can't afford to keep 2 cars on the road simultaneously.

Yea thats the beauty of storage insurance. You keep it insured to keep the registration valid and incase of theft or the garage catches on fire crazy things like that but its dirt cheap. I believe when i used to do it was like $25 a year. Cant drive it on storage insurance but you can have it converted back to regular insurance with 24 hours notice with most companies. Other places I notice alot of rust is the bottom of doors because the window sweeps leak and the drains are plugged and behind ground effects. I find If you take care of the rust thats there and under cote it well things hold up well but i have yet to find a way of protecting the inside of frame rails and rocker panels. For example another place that collects a lot of crap are the frame rails up front due to the large hole in the front sub frame in the wheel well area. A lot of people fill frame rails and rocker panels with expandable foam but i have an odd suspicion that although it sounds good on paper would probably cause more problems than it solves by plugging up drains and possibly trapping stuff in those areas rather than preventing crap from getting in. Plus good luck ever welding in a patch panel after that if needed.

+1 for that. Firebird all summer, then camo Bronco II in the winter. Plus they you have time to do things with the car you cant do when it's a DD.

Bronco?! Blazer/Jimmy all the way man!

Had an 89 Jimmy, too many problems with it. I have devided loyalties, any car I buy will be a GM, but I have faith in Ford trucks, and experiance with them. The 4.3 is about the best small tuck V6, but it's one of the only things I loved about my GMC Jimmy.

Oh I see, lol at least you're open minded. My 94 Jimmy hasn't given me too many problems.

What do you guys think this car is worth? What would be a reasonable price to pay for it? I saw someone mention $500 but I'm sure the guy paid more for it than that.

I plan on shopping around this summer when I have the money.

im gonna thro my 2 cents in, as i looked at the eng bay pic i see 2 things that bother me about this car. first thing i noticed was the air inlet. somewhere down the line that has been changed because 85-87 cars had the restrictive square box and thats a plastic elbow. yeah thats less restrictive but what else has been tinkerd with thats not seen.

my other concern is on top of the plenum on the pass side there is black like something being blown out in this area. is that oil? thats not good if it is, is it carbon? if so then the upper plenum gaskets need replacing and thats a no biggie. the blown black stuff is on the runner as well.

i got lucky with my birds over the past 15 years or so by not having to drive them in the snow. the past 5 or so years iv had my 86 S-10 and its been ok up untill today when we actually got a snow and it was everywhere but a few concrete cylinders will take care of that.

i'll add to the falure milage count. i got my 89 formula in 01 wiht right at 90,000 on the clock and it was tight as a drum, when it hit the 130,000 i could feel the change and when it hit 150,000 i noticed a lil more and finally the motor needed swappin.

I use my firebird as a daily driver, check out this thread too

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/bo...-here-use.html (Does anyone here use their thirdgen as a daily driver?)

Many people use their thirdgens as daily drivers.

It's really hard to stick a number on a car without seeing it in person, and without driving it, but just judging from the pics and the somewhat average condition, $1,500-2,500 would be in the ballpark. It's not unusual to find much better cars priced well below where they should be priced. If you have $3,500 you should be able to find a really nice thirdgen. With some work this car could probably be really nice, but it's hard to know for sure.