1bdbrd

iTrader: (1)

I stupidly lost my only set of keys to my car and was wondering what my best course of action is? I went to the local Chevrolet dealership (the Pontiac dealer in town doesn't have a parts department that I know of for some reason) and was told that my car is too old (its a 91 obviously) and that they "could only go back to 95 or 96". He said my only fix would be to replace the ignition cylinder and then have one of the techs use their machine to find the resistance and all that jazz. He said it would probably be a couple hundred dollars or more to go that route.

I figure it would be cheapest if I were to get into the car somehow and replace the door locks and the ignition cylinder. Then disable vats. Then I saw some newer threads on here saying that a dealership could still get me the keys. Is this true? I really hope it is...

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Go back to your dealer and kick them in the nuts. Then have the service manager look in the computer. Your car should be in it, assuming you're talking about a 91, and they should have the key codes on file.

If it's not in there, or more likely they're just slackers and don't want to help you, or they don't know how to find the info, you can pull the lock cylinder yourself, and it should have the key code stamped into it.

The third option would be to pull the drivers door lock, and the ignition cylinder, then take them both to a locksmith. Not the key cutting station at the local ACE hardware, but an actual locksmith. If you can find the guy in the hole in the wall shop with old safes, bad lighting, and everything is covered in an inch of dust, you're in the right place. A real locksmith should be able to pop apart the lock and gauge the tumblers, then cut you a real GM VATS key blank to fit your lock. But you'll need to know the VATS code. There are 15 different values, and that value will determine which key blank should be used. Your locksmith will have to plug in a gadget called a VATS interrogator, which will try each resistance until the car starts. An alternative would be to crack the code yourself. You can find the 15 resistance values online, and build resistor packs to equal those values, or if you look around you might be able to order a set of 15 resistors of those precise values.

After you get 1 key made that matches your car and works (try it before you buy a dozen) get a couple extras made, or write down the # so you have it for future reference.

Also shop around a bit, a VATS key shouldn't cost you more then about $20, and the fee to have them interrogate the car shouldn't cost you a weeks wages either.

kymmee

Bought an 84 z28, was only given 1 ignition key. Did exactly what Drew said-took out lock cylinder in door and took it to a locksmith. He tore it apart and made key-put it back together. Came home, checked locks in door and hatch-worked!! Then when back and had more keys made-I think it was like $17. Not a big deal, just burned like half a day, driving back and forth. Make sure you go to a reputable place.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

The dealer can look up key codes by using the VIN.. I have done it just last year 4 my 89.
Sounds like you have a lazy dealer that just wants to sell parts

Thirdgen Ranch

iTrader: (5)

Yes, a dealership should definitely be able to get you a key for a '91. If it was a little earlier car they may not be able to help but they should have key codes for anything after '87 or '88.

camaronewbie

If it comes down to it, you can replace the cylinder (about $60 from CarQuest), then get a listing of the 15 resistor values for the VATS (www.thirdgen.org/vats), then get one each resistor of those values and find the one the VATS is looking for by testing each one under the dash (wait 5 minutes inbetween each test for VATS to reset after getting a faulty code), then take the new dummy key that came with the new cylinder, and the value of that resistor to any ACE Hardware and they'll make you VATS keys for $24.99 each.

It's not the easy way, but it's $90 and 2 hours instead of several $100 and several days of the stealership screwing around.

Zwrench

O.K. I realize this is not contributing to the thread but:

If that isn't one of the best descriptors of a skilled craftsman I don't know what is.

cs2000

I worked for a GM dealer for many years until last year, at that time we could get key codes back to 1990, all you needed were proof of ownership and a picture ID. This may have changed but another chance is this: If you have the original paper work with the car, the selling dealer may have taped the key code tag to either the warranty booklet or the inside cover of the owners manual, the key codes also may be on a bill of sale to the original owner. the vats code will not be with the code, so you won't know the exact key to get for the ignition, but at least you'll have to codes (if you get lucky)

bowtieboy42

I just lost my keys saturday as well. Still can't find them and I'm trying to consider my options. I know my ignition cylinder was replaced by the PO so I assume the dealership can't do anything for me?

I guess I could take the cylinder to a lock smith, but without knowing the resistor value I'd still be screwed correct?

Could I just replace the ignition cylinder? Or would I still need to figure out what resistor I need for VATS?

I was also thinking, I still have the original key from before the ignition cylinder was replaced. Obviously the key doesn't turn the cylinder, but will this be the same resistor value as my new cylinder? In other words with my old key, and new lock cylinder could a locksmith make me a new key?

89RS_82Z

iTrader: (2)

yes your old key will have the same resistance value and you can take your current ing switch to a lock smith and he can re key it for your factory key

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Just be VERY clear telling the locksmith what you need... They get a bit cranky when they ruin $10 key blanks.

bowtieboy42

Talked to the locksmith, who told me the key code may or may not be stamped on my replacement cylinder. If its not then I'll have to replace it.

Treid to get the ignition cylidner out just now, but don't have a lock plate depressor (or a ride to the parts store...), so it looks like this wont get done today...

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Talk to another locksmith.

bowtieboy42

So not to threadjack the OP's thread, but I'm having some problems getting to the ignition cylinder and didnt want to have tomake a new thread...

This is where I am now:

I'm under the impression theres a snap ring somewhere?

I got this tool, is it supposed to press against the metal or the plastic behind it? I tried to push down on the metal piece, and it actually broke.... I guess my question is where is this snap ring? Between the metal piece and the plastic behind it? Or where the steering shaft threads come through the metal piece?



Getting really frustrated not being able to drive my car again... Any help would be awesome. Thanks

Drew

iTrader: (58)

That's a Grant or similar steering wheel adapter, you need to pull it before you can remove the lock plate.

bowtieboy42

yeah I do have a grant wheel. any idea how to get that piece off though? I tried everything and it won't budge.. anyone have experience with one of these

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Steering wheel puller.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

That's what Grant sells as a steering wheel puller, and it'd probably work. The center hole is threaded, you thread a large bolt into the hole and butt it up against the center shaft. Then run two bolts through the outer holes into the hub, and alternate tightening from one bolt to the other until it pulls the hub off the shaft.

bowtieboy42

tried one from advanced and all the bolts were way to big. I guess I'll try to make something tomorrow

bowtieboy42

I got the cylinder out, and its aftermarket with no key codes on it. I called the only 3 locksmiths within 20 miles of here, and they all said they couldn't cut a key off the cylinder without a key code.

Went over to advanced, and the computer said I needed a cylinder, but it didn't have the vats hookup. They looked up one for a 90, and it seems to be the right one. However its almost 50 bucks. Do I need to order this one?

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Fire-bomb the Advance Auto... Order the part you need from Rock Auto. They've got a couple to choose from, starting at just a hair under $30. They've even got the ACDelco replacement for $71 if you want a GM part.

PS just kidding about the Fire-bomb... But yeah, I hardly buy anything local anymore unless I want it RIGHT NOW. If you dig around a bit you can usually find discount codes for Rock Auto too.

bowtieboy42

Is it the AIRTEX Part # 4H1006?

I did see that, but wanted to make sure it was the right part before ordering.

Although know I'm thinking of bypassing vats all together. In which case I can run the regular cylinder?

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Pretty sure all the VATS cylinders up to at least 92 are the same part. Look up a later year and they've got several listed. If you take the Standard part number to a local autoparts store they should have them or be able to order them.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Auto and manual ign lock clys are different..
manuals have a lil button on them..

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Oops. Yeah, I forgot to mention that. All my VATS cars have been autos.

bowtieboy42

Would wiring in a resistor and running a non-vats cylinder work as well?

camaronewbie

Yes that should work - you just have to get one each of the 15 resistors ($1 each) and test each one until you get the one that satisfies the VATS module to start the car. Test each at least 5 minutes apart as I read there is a fault timer built in - in the event of getting the wrong resistance the system shuts down for 5 minutes.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/elec...-security.html

My post, #6, in the above-linked thread, has a link to the GM Vats Pack resistor set containing the 15 correct resistors that GM used. It's a $2 item.

The company in the link is a local SoCal company, and they do will-call sales. Obviously people who are not local can order it. But if you can't wait for shipping, then check with some of your local car alarm installation companies, like Al and Ed's for example, where you should be able to find the same resistor pack.

And yes, you can swap in a non-vats ignition cylinder and by-pass vats, and it will fit and work fine. I've done it, and that's what my post in that linked thread is about.