I read on here before about a few books going over the chassis and susp devoplement and the history of these cars. I can't find the thread though. What books do you know of that are good source of info on these cars?

There are 2 books that are really good
Pontiacs: Third Generation Firebirds and Trans Ams - ISBN 940346117
Camaro The Third Generation - ISBN 0932128025

they cover the development and have some good info. I also have a list of books, mostly firebird, on my site

http://www.82firebird.com/booksretail.aspx

I thought this one was pretty good, click on the image to see more information on it:

If the link doesn't work, you can cut & paste the title below to find it:
How to Tune and Modify Your Camaro, 1982-1998 (Motorbooks Workshop) Jason Scott
# ISBN-10: 076030436X
# ISBN-13: 978-0760304365


I wasn't as impressed with this one at the time I read it, it tended to harp too much on emissions from what I recall. lol

The Camaro Performance Handbook with the blue Camaro on the cover is HILARIOUS!!! It's beyond out dated. Nearly every aftermarket part in the book is discontinued now, and really the content is worthless if you've spent more then a few minutes on the forum. It's not even close to relevant anymore.

How to Tune and Modify Your Camaro is a better book. It's about 10 times more involved then the other title. But it doesn't really cover much of any development or history of the cars. The focus is more on modifications.

I've got a bookcase full of thirdgen related books, and none of them really give much history and development.

Well I remember The mod of this forum posting about it a long time ago. Said it went into chassis design and such.

What about the camaro white book, does it cover this stuff? What is the Pontiac version of this?

The Camaro White Book basically discusses options, RPO codes, production numbers, etc... It's more of a quick reference buyers guide. It's cheap enough every enthusiast should own a copy, if only for reference.

The Firebird version is the Red Book. Again it's kind of like a clone of the White Book, except the Red Book doesn't have as much information, and the numbers are open to debate. It's worth having if you're an enthusiast, but you're not going to find as much info there as you will here.

You're probably thinking of Camaro The Third Generation. There are a few printings out there, but it's out of print. Used copies usually aren't cheap. You can probably find a used copy on Amazon.com. I've never been able to justify buying a used copy. Most of the time when I buy a book with thirdgen info, the book doesn't tell me anything new anyway.

If you've got a large bookstore in your town, I'd recommend browsing the automotive section and see what you can find. You probably won't find much about the early development. The focus seems to be either glossy pictures, decoding options and production figures, or modifications for increasing performance. At least with browsing Barnes and Nobles you can get an idea of what you're buying.

Now that I think about it, I want to say the White Book, and the Red Book are both out of print too.

Right Here at TGO is your best bet...

Here are some books that I have:
FIREBIRD
- Catalog of Firebird ID Numbers 1967-1993
Great Resource, not 100% correct, but close enough. More or less the information was taken from a Chevrolet book and a Pontiac book was made, so when they reference the VIN, they state that the first VIN was 100001, in fact most years Pontiacs start with a 200001, but its a good resource.
- Pontiac Firebird (The auto Biography) by Marc Cranswick
A Good read, more for the Firebird Club guy than the Guru, but some interesting things, and pictures, not all cars are 100% original Factory spec, but not a bad book all in all.
- Original Pontiac Firebird and Trans Am 1967-2002 by Jim Schild
Again Not a bad book, flipping thru its a semi hearted attempt for restoration. A bit scarce on the third gen side, but ok.
- Firebird and Trans Am by Holder and Kunz
Little information, mostly pictures
- Muscle Car Color History Firebird & Trans Am By Holder & Kunz
The book covers 1977 thru 1994 in one chapter, you get the picture. Its not bad, but not a great or horrible book at the same time.
- Pontiac Firebird 1967 - 2000 Photo History By George Scala
Actually George was a member on the boards for years, not seen or heard from him in a while. This book is actually pretty decent, the pix are all B&W, but there is some historical information, basic production figures.
- The Pontiac Firebird by Burgan
A childrens book, its meant for a school library. Don't even consider it unless you want a chuckle or two.
- Firebird Trans Am by Newhardt
Not bad, again a bit scarce on the information side for my taste, but like most books its worth owning. A Trans Am only book however, as for 3rd genners, the only exception was the mention and some pictures of a Firehawk.
- Pontiac Firebird Trans Am 1969 - 1999 Photo album by George Scala
Again, an only TA book. If you have to choose between his two books, get the Pontiac Firebird 1967 - 2000 Photo History book, much more informative over this book. However this book does have some oddities like a 1984 convertbile TA and one of the three ASC verts pictured from CA.. So its neat for that regard.
- HOT ROD Pontiac Firebird, Trans Am and GTO
These are magazine articles reprinted from HOT Rod magazine over the years, really a neat collection to have. I think this is worth owning.
- Pontiac's Third Generation Firebird and Trans Am by Martyn L. Schorr
This is worth owning, if you want the history & Development of these cars. When you mix this with the Michael Lamm book "Camaro, the Third Generation" you can really get a picture of how the third gen started off with two concepts and then Pontiac and Chevy made concessions to combine the two ideas into one basic car. With these two books you will see concept Camaros with the Aero Spoiler, and details showing why they did what they did to end up with a final product.
-Firebird Red Book by Peter Sessler
Not as nice as the Camaro White book but worth owning. Its not as good as actually owning all of the Salesman's Pocket booklets but worth owning (if you can find one) The revision I have only goes thru 1991.
- Illustrated Buyers Guide FIREBIRD by Gunnell
A neat book for someone interested in these cars. I highly disagree with his ratings, but nonetheless a good book to own. Like the Red Book he lists RPO's year for year. One of the biggest complaints I have as an example he uses a 5 star rating for the cars. In one breath on page 183 he states that 1987 cars have more styles, more options and better quality. But he only rates a GTA with ** (2) stars but on page 146 he gage a TPI 1986 Trans Am **** (4) Stars... What gives, it seems that an 87 would be more desirable if it has more quality... So I think its worth owning, but take it with a grain of salt.
- Standard Catalog of Firebird 1967 - 2002 by Gunnell
I think this is another book worth having on the shelf. Has some good information in it.
- FIREBIRD: Pure excitement From Pontiac by james A Flamming
Worth getting, has some pre production pictures of models for the 3rd Gen. THings that are hideous, to FWD variations.
- Classic Marques Pontiac Firebird by Nicky Wright
out of the 128 pages, maybe 12 mention the 3rd Gen, Don't cry if you can't find this one.

CAMARO
- Camaro by Richard Carlyon
More or less a picture book, not much substance. It was published in 1989 IIRC
- Camaro, The Third Generation by Michael Lamm
One of the must haves for those looking for the history of the third gen and its development.
- CAMARO by Dietzler
Again, about 14 pages dedicated to the 3rd Gen, not much substance, some here's a car, there's a car, and how do you like this custom 3rd Gen?
- CAMARO by Young
Better than some of the others, but not a book that I must have.
- CAMARO Z28 and Performance Specials by Scott and Newhardt
Again, not too bad, has about 20 pages, of 3rd Gen stuff out of the 122 pages in the book.
- CAMARO by Statham
Again about 13 pages for 3rd Gens out of 122 pages.
- CAMARO Forty Years by Holmstrom and Newhardt
35 pages for 3rd Gens. Not too bad, its a bit light on the factoids, but all in all interesting to poke through.
- Standard Catalog of CAMARO 1967-2002 by Gunnell
Worth Owning lots of interesting information.
- Camaro White Book 1967-2002 by Antonick
A Must have for a Camaro guy... Not 100% accurate, but the best there is for data and information.
- CAMARO by Holder and Kunz
Pretty scant information on specifically 3rd Gen stuff, flipping thru looks like it has a bunch of racing pictures from IROC, and so on, but not much substance for history.
- CAMARO Style, Speed and Spirit by James Flamming
Not too bad of a book

There were some other Camaro Books That I recently found at Boarders, but I passed as they both included the new 5th Gen. Honestly flipping thru there was nothing in them that made me have to get the books, they were nothing more than what I had, and for the most part the 3rd Gen was barely mentioned. Another Book was 5th Gen only, so I passed on it completely.

Then you get the Dealer Brochures for each year, every one, Some years they are big, other years they are smaller, some years have big ones and little ones, and other years have brochures Just for Camaros or Firebirds, other years do not.

Then you go to the Salesman's Pocket Booklets, or Selling Facts booklets. In these you will Find RPO's with prices for 95% of the options, more or less for the most popular items, These changed at lest twice a year, and some years have 3 or even 4, and each one may be slightly different. Many times you will find hand written information by sales people, noting a change.

Then you go to the "Dealer Books", Chevy usually called them the "Passenger Car Value Guide", Pontiac called them A "Product Manual" from 1982 - 1985 and "Pontiac Product Book" from 1986 - 1992. There are more or less Three different books for any given year. The Thick Book is the Main Product Guide which is 2" to 3" thick, Then there are Salesmans Books (Pontiac had a Performance Network Book in 1990 & 1991 which was the same thing) which are 1.5" thick, and finally there are the "Fleet" Books which are either a spiral Bound book or a 1" 3 ring binder.

The differences are subtle, Typically the Fleet books are all Black and White pictures, but have the same basic information as the Salesmans Books. Salesmans books sometimes have a little more information included in them, if your lucky you can find notes, ordered cars, radio information and other items, like Order Sheets, Distribution Bulletins Sales Bulletins etc. The Main Books The thick ones, if your lucky you get all of the above in the Salesmans Books. I have not found a big difference between the 2" to 3" 3 ring binders and the 1.5" binders as far as information.

Then you have the Media Kits. Media Kits are neat because they have information like pictures that you would use for an Advertisement. They have whats new for any particular year and other intesting factoids. Since these were released early sometimes by the time Production happened, things are not accurate, for example in 1989 one book I have mentions that there was going to be a new Yellow color, it was going to be 53U, but it never happened. By the time the next printing came out, that was gone.

You can also get some Ad Planners. These are similar to the Media kits. The earlier kits have cutout cars that were intended to make a Newspaper Ad for a dealership. There is some information on what is new for the year, and sometimes not so much. There interesting to flip thru, especially if there complete.

Dealer Accessory Booklets are interesting because these are Dealer installed items, or they have Jackets, or CB antennas or crazy things like that that could have been purchased for that year.

There are other things like Fuel Mileage sheets that have a listing of each engine and transmission Fuel economy in each model.

You can actually dig a bunch of production information in Wards Data Books and in Autmotive News Data Books. Every year these two publications make books for Dealers to see trends and see what is popular and what is not popular. There is some Production information and other interesting factoids, unfortunately it is inconsistent from year to year, Its a general overview of the cars

Then you can get Comparison Guides that more or less compare The Firebird to the Camaro to the Mustang to the Daytona or whatever car they consider to be a competitor for a particular Model. Interesting, tidbits.

Once you collect all of those you get into the Parts & Illustration catalogs for both cars. From there you can actually determine exactly what changed from year to year. Its amazing how much I use those for clarifying what is correct and what is not. Again its not a 100% accurate pub, but its probably the best there is.

When you get board with all of that, go to the Library and look for old car magazines, I found that many were on Micro Film, & Micro Fiche so I had to set up my Digital camera on a tri-pod and take Digital pictures of the slides. The down side is they are B&W, the up side the text is readable. I am an information Junkie, so spending a few weekends neglecting my family is what it turned out to be... Needless to say I have a bunch of crap that is more than just barely useless, but I have it.

There is also a CD-ROM that someone has published with all of the Firebird Ads and another with the Camaro Ads... He is missing a few Ads, but there is about 99% of them, neat to flip thru. On the CD-ROM There are some newer TV spots as well... Also look at Youtube, sometimes you can find old TV shows that discuss the cars. Some interesting insight honestly of what they thought about the cars when new.

There you have it, this is what I use for sources.

John

With regards to the: Camaro White Book 1967-2002

I see that there are a few different versions; one just says "Camaro White Book" and "Camaro White Book 1967-1997"

Is there a specific "Camaro White Book 1967-2002" or are either of those just as useful for thirdgen info?

They are more or less identical, however the 1967-2002 is slightly more accurate for some years. Obviously the 67-97 version does not have 98-02...

They are supposed to be releasing a 2010 version as well... May be interesting to see if there are any changes or updates to 3rd gen stuff


John

just bought camaro the third gen. for $10 including shipping on amazon, but holy crap the white book is SOOOO expensive, cheapest was for $54, insane for a book

By far the best book I ever read on the history of the third gen is called "Camaro, The Third Generation". It is written by Michael Lamm. ISBN# 0-932128-02-5.
It was written, believe it or not, in 1981...thats right; a year before the third gen was released.
This book goes into detail about how they designed the car, it has pics of the prototype drawings, mule cars, testing rigs, engineering centers, testing photos, assembely line photos, etc....
Neat stuff...if you want the background and history on our third gens, this is the best I have seen (hardback--96 pages)

I have not seen it, but apparently there is a later version of that book that was released in 85 or 83 as well...

John

Just got mine on Amazon for $0.25 plus $3.99 shipping.

Condition is okay but for under $5 shipped, I cannot complain, at least not yet!

Probably wont get it for 2 or 3 weeks.

Thanks for all the info guys!

Mike Lamm also wrote an excellent book on the Firebird about the same time. I think it's called "The Fabulous Firebird". I'll check on the title when I get home. It talks a lot about developement of the 1st & 2nd gen, but some of it transferred to 3rd gen, except of course the "salt shakers" that were in the trunks of the 1st gens.

I realize that you are looking primarily for a real book on these cars, but I would also consider the magazine articles that featured these cars year to year. The 3rd gen launch was a big deal, and introductory articles throughout 81 and 82 often had side stories featuring engineering and development of the cars, as well as input from engineers. Generally, Car & Driver, Motor Trend, and Road & Track are your best bets. I remember seeing an article in Car & Driver where one of the editors actually followed his Firebird through the production process at the plant. It was "Present at the Creation", and is in the media section now. A complete search of this type would require some detective work, but could produce info that is not in the larger books, if back issues can be found. Good hunting. Rudy.

magazine idea is interesting....I hafta check that out for myself. u r right, the third gen intro was a big deal...there should be some neat stuff out there somewhere.

I have tons of car mags from the late 80's early 90's I bought years ago.

Need to dig them out and see what 3rd gen articles they have.

Check these out. http://www.thirdgen.org/media-articles

Thank you for this post. I've seen people on here mention this book over the years and it's become kind of a legend I guess. But now I have a copy in hand and will give it a read shortly.

I've got two different editions of Michael Lamm's Camaro,TheThird Generation. The the 1981 edition has a black or dark blue Z28 on the cover and the 1987 edition has a red 1987 Iroc convertible on the cover. The 1987 edition has information on the Irocs and the 1981 edition obviously doesn't. They are both great books. The 1987 edition tends to be much more expensive and harder to find. I think they printed a lot fewer copies.
When I was looking for the 1987 edition of the book about 2 years ago I googled it and a a site came up with a phone number I could call and order the book. To my surprise when I called the number Michael Lamm answered the phone and told me he had no more copies of the 1987 edition with the Iroc information in it but still had new copies of the 1981 edition for sale. So, apparently the 1987 copy was sold out at that time. This could be why the price has gone up so much on it.

Huh, I didn't know that. I have the 1981 version but it was only $10 including shipping. I did notice that some were a lot more expensive than others so that must have been why. I'm happy with this for now but will keep an eye out for other one.
Thanks for the info.

As mentioned, Michael Lamm's book is in my opinion the best book devoted to third-gen Camaro history. I've got 2 versions... the first edition from 1981, and the 3rd edition from 1987. The two books are different enough that it's worth having both.

I also recently purchased a book that was a collection of third generation Camaro magazine articles from 1982 through 1988 called "High Performance Camaros 1982-1988". I also found this to be very interesting. Hearing what the magazine guys had to say about these cars when they were new, compared to what people say about them now was an eye opener.

About 3 years ago I was in touch with Mike Antonick who wrote the Camaro White Book. I sent him documentation on the existence of the 1985 1C5 "California Iroc" which wasn't listed in the different editions of his books. He said they weren't listed in those editions since the GM archives don't have any records of them being built and that is where he got his information for the books. He thanked me for the documentation and proof of the 1C5 "California Iroc" and said it would be included in a 2010 edition and it should come out by December. This new book should have information on the 5th generation Camaros and maybe more facts and corrections that weren't listed in the other editions of the book. He seems like a very nice guy and to my surprise he sent me a copy of the Corvette Black Book which he also wrote. Along with this there was a letter of thanks and his business card. I hope he sends me a copy of his new Camaro White Book in 2010 so I don't have to go out and buy one!

There's a Firebird version of that book too... It's good reading. Replace the 'CAMAROS' in the title with 'FIREBIRDS', the various Camaro models with Firebird models, and the pic of a Camaro convertible with a pic of a red 87/88 T/A with red crosslace wheels and ttops, and you've got the cover.

I also contacted Michael Antonick to let him know that there were 70,008 Camaros built in 1992, not 70,007 as his White Book shows. For some reason GM forgot about my Camaro!!

Leonard

was yours the last off the line?

Tha is what I was wondering???

Yes, Leonard's was the last Third Gen Camaro built:
http://www.last1992camaro.com

Just got "Camaro, The Third Generation" today!

Just barely skimmend thru it but will be my leaisure reading for the upcoming week!

Today, to my surprise, I received a copy of the 1967-2011 Camaro White Book from Mike Antonick. After looking through the book I noticed there were many changes, and the 1985 1C5 "California Iroc" is now included. Looks like the book was just published in November, and released recently. I noticed it currently isn't listed on Amazon, but it is available through Michael Bruce Associates Inc at http://www.camarowhitebook.com/ .

Great info, good to know

I have the '93, '97 and '02 editions. Looks like I need a new one

http://lammmorada.com/product/camaro...rd-generation/