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History / OriginalityGot a question about 1982-1992 Camaro or Firebird history? Have a question about original parts, options, RPO codes, when something was available, or how to document your car? Those questions, answers, and much more!
Here is the scoop, received from Scott Settlemire via Jim Mattison:
PHS - Automotive Services now has the ability to provide an exact replica of
the original window sticker for their 1981-2011 Camaros. These window stickers
will be the same size and colors and in every respect as the original. However,
in order to do so we will need to have a copy of the dealer invoice for their car,
as without it we will not have the necessary information to print the window
sticker.
To obtain a copy of the dealer invoice for their car, they can contact a company
called Allied-Vaughn, who operates under the name of GM Media Archive. They
are located in the Detroit area and their phone is: 734/462-5543 ext 163.
Their e-mail address is: vehicleinvoice@gmmediaarchive.com
It is essential that we have a copy of the dealer invoice to accurately make the
window sticker for their Camaro. Additionally, we will only produce the window
sticker to show the options that were on the car when it left the factory. We will
not add, delete nor change any options from how the car was originally produced.
Once the customer has the dealer invoice from Allied-Vaughn, they can fill-out a
copy of the attached order form and either mail of fax it to us. It will normally
take about two weeks plus mailing time to get the window sticker made.
Lastly, we have attached a history on how window stickers (actually called Monroney
labels) came to be. We are sure that you will find this to be some very interesting
reading.
Very good to know, and I'm glad they are only doing legit reprints.
Do we know if they can do Firebirds also?
I assume that the order form and history lesson that the above post said was attached will be coming soon.
Yes, sorry, Firebirds & "most" Pontiacs too, here is the complete email:
From: SCOTT SETTLEMIRE/US/GM/GMC
To: CAMARO/FIREBIRD2010
Date: 03/28/2011 03:02 PM
Subject: Camaro and Pontiac Window Labels
Good afternoon, Camaro Comrades and Firebird Friends.......
I get quite a few requests for Window Labels for both new and used Camaros.........
I'm pleased to send you the following note from our friend, Jim Mattison at PHS - Automotive Services.
PHS can provide you a window label for any Camaro from 1981 to 2011 -- as well as for most Pontiacs.
Details are below - please feel free to share with your fellow enthusiasts!
Scott,
PHS - Automotive Services now has the ability to provide an exact replica of
the original window sticker for their 1981-2011 Camaros. These window stickers
will be the same size and colors and in every respect as the original. However,
in order to do so we will need to have a copy of the dealer invoice for their car,
as without it we will not have the necessary information to print the window
sticker.
To obtain a copy of the dealer invoice for their car, they can contact a company
called Allied-Vaughn, who operates under the name of GM Media Archive. They
are located in the Detroit area and their phone is: 734/462-5543 ext 163.
Their e-mail address is: vehicleinvoice@gmmediaarchive.com
It is essential that we have a copy of the dealer invoice to accurately make the
window sticker for their Camaro. Additionally, we will only produce the window
sticker to show the options that were on the car when it left the factory. We will
not add, delete nor change any options from how the car was originally produced.
Once the customer has the dealer invoice from Allied-Vaughn, they can fill-out a
copy of the attached order form and either mail of fax it to us. It will normally
take about two weeks plus mailing time to get the window sticker made.
Lastly, we have attached a history on how window stickers (actually called Monroney
labels) came to be. We are sure that you will find this to be some very interesting
reading.
Scott, if you have any questions or need further clairification, please contact
me at your earliest convenience.
Also, what wasn't mentioned was the price of $35 for Camaros up to 1988. 1989 on up or $40. The windowsticker can be laminated for $3 more. Here's the history lesson.
Window Stickers
Did you ever wonder why new vehicles have window stickers? Many people think they are meant to show your neighbors that you bought a new car, or to annoy you with the glue residue on the window, but this is not the case.
In March of 1958, Senator Michael Monroney, Chairman of the Senate Subcommittee on Automobile Marketing Practices, proposed a bill that would take the mystery out of new car prices. This bill required every automobile manufacturer to attach a label to the window of each new vehicle, which would show the manufacturer’s suggested retail price, transport methods, freight charges, and accessory prices. This would be the first time in twenty years that a consumer could walk into an automobile dealership and find an itemized, accurate price tag on a new vehicle.
Prior to the proposal of this bill, there was often a large discrepancy between the showroom price and the actual price of a new vehicle. The fact was that existing price tags did not tell the full story. Most customer-quoted prices were for “stripped-down” models and did not include additions for preparation charges, freight charges, federal, state, and local taxes, or optional factory-installed equipment requested by the purchaser.
These hidden charges were used by some dealers to increase the selling price while giving the new vehicle buyer an inflated idea of their trade-in allowance. This price confusion led to a slump in auto sales during the early 1950’s. Senator Monroney’s bill was designed to prevent the abuse of the new vehicle list prices, but would not, however, prevent dealers and buyers from bargaining over vehicle prices.
Senator Monroney received widespread support for this bill from both consumers and dealers. Dealers viewed the Monroney Label as an opportunity to restore the confidence of the new vehicle buyers, which they hoped would result in a more successful sales year.
On July 7, 1958, Monroney’s bill became a law. Beginning on September 1, 1958, every automobile manufacturer was required to securely affix a label to the window of the vehicle, disclosing information concerning the vehicle and its price. Any manufacturer who failed to comply, could be levied a fine of not more than $1000. Removal, alteration, or illegibility of the required label could result in a fine of not more than $1000 and/or imprisonment of not more than one year.
Once enacted, the law increased both dealer morale and auto sales. Customers grew more confident in their ability to make an informed decision and get the best deal possible. This law was instrumental in brightening industry-wide automobile sales during that time, by increasing consumer confidence.
In this day and age, we tend to take window stickers for granted, but the next time you are out shopping for a new car, you can thank Senator Michael Monroney for making your job much easier.
Very nice information, may do this for my heritage 92. Can they build this window sticker off of the RPO code list that the dealer can provide on 90 and newer vehicles?
Except they aren't exact, they're reproductions, there is a difference. The only part of this that's really news is that now PHS is offering the service. The impression I've always gotten is that PHS doesn't do the window stickers in house. In fact isn't their page on window stickers nearly identical in wording to the page at windowsticker.com?
PHS states that they teamed up with Triple-A Enterprises for this. Triple-A Enterprises is window-sticker.com.
"
PHS HISTORIC SERVICES Adds New Division
PHS Historic Services (PHS) has formed a new subsidiary to expand the number of services available to the automotive hobbyist.
The new subsidiary, Automotive Services, has teamed up with Triple A enterprises to offer the owners of 1961 to 2000 Pontiacs the opportunity to purchase exact reproductions of the original window sticker that came on their car. Window stickers previously offered by Triple A Enterprises did not always include the delivering dealer, as much of this information was not available until Automotive Services was able to recreate the original factory records."
Reproduction window stickers, atleast for the Pontiac Firebird side, have been available for a while. I would be concerned about accuracy as a reproduction. I noticed in one example there was a significant error. Here's one from a former 1987 GTA owner that shows a "manual", "3 SPD TRANS" behind their 350. This was a reproduction window sticker and would be a glaring mistake.
I agree JT, but if it were mine, I would send it back and request the correction. There are plenty of other window stickers from each year available as a reference to verify it's accuracy. A simple typo that should have read 4 instead of 3. See mine below:
I agree JT, but if it were mine, I would send it back and request the correction. There are plenty of other window stickers from each year available as a reference to verify it's accuracy. A simple typo that should have read 4 instead of 3. See mine below:
Two typos. 4 instead of 3 and Auto Lockup instead of Manual.
Just would make you wonder what else may or may not be technically correct. But, they're not as complex as a buildsheet, so probably not an enormous concern.
Yea because if you look up above, it says 4 speed, and at the bottom, 3 speed, but either way, people paying money for this get it for accuracy, should be checked before leaving, but I hope they recognize their mistake and took care of shipping and got him the correct one for his app.
Previously I had bought 3 other window stickers from Triple A Enterprises who makes them for PHS. They were all correct and they had no errors and I was very satisfied with all of them.
But I was very disappointed with the last window sticker that I ordered from Jim Mattison of PHS-Automotive Services back in November of 2010. You now have to go through PHS to get a window for a Pontiac.
It was for a 1988 GTA notchback that I had recently bought. When I ordered the window sticker it came back riddled with mistakes.
Such as the first item on the window sticker that said it had a 5.7 TBI engine, which no 3rd gen ever had, the car had leather interior, it said it had cloth, other options it had weren't listed, and ones it didn't have were listed.
I contacted Jim Mattison who I spoke to directly and he contacted Triple A Enterprises and tried to help me get it fixed. I have no problem with the efforts that Jim Mattison did to resolve the problems. He did everything he could to help fix the mistakes and problems with the first window sticker. Triple A Enterprises probably would not have redone it if Jim Mattison had not got involved. I thank him greatly for all his efforts.
Other than the factory invoice I sent to them I also sent a factory original window sticker for a 1988 Pontiac GTA notchback that I located so they could get it right the second time at Triple A Enterprises. They apparently didn't have a generic template for a notchback GTA or something because the first window sticker they made me was totally wrong. On the second all they had to do was type it correctly from the original I had sent and change the Vin# and other specifics for my car, which they couldn't transcribe correctly.
After two tries to get a window sticker without mistakes Triple A Enterprises said they wouldn't correct the errors on a third one and they were going to refund my money.
Well, nobody else can make the window stickers for a Pontiac as far as I know so I was out of luck if I didn't just accept the mistake ridden one they made for me. It was full of errors in comparison to the original I sent to them to duplicate.
At this point Triple A Enterprises got extremely rude with me. They said take it or leave. They wouldn't do any more corrections to make it an exact reproduction, which was as easy as copying the one I provided.
I can post all my e-mails with them if you want to see what I went through in an attempt to get a correct window sticker. Your stuck with what they provide for you because I don't think anyone else is allowed to make these window stickers. If anybody knows of anyone else who makes them for Pontiacs let me know because I still don't have one that is a correct reproduction and would like to get one.
This was my last experience with this company. If you find errors in your window sticker, as in my case forget about getting them fixed. You might get lucky like I did with the first 3 window stickers I ordered and not have to go through what I did.
Last edited by yo soy el warg; 02-01-2015 at 12:13 PM.
Reason: wrong year
Well what the hell. If they are going to charge a fee, and ask for a dealer invoice for verification, I would expect perfection. And If they get it wrong, they certainly should fix it so it's right.
I was ready to order a couple of these, but now I'm going to hold off.
Sounds like some of the same guys are working there. I'm not sure if its a lack of attention to detail on there part or they are just trying to avoid at all costs putting an option or something else that doesn't belong.
That 3-spd typo makes me lean towards the former.
My experience with them..Sent my build sheet and put order in...they sent 1st window sticker back with metallic added to color despite it not appearing on build sheet. Called up, they claimed I'm wrong, but would agree to do another one if I prove the color existed to them via dealer invoice from A.Vaughn. Got that and then they sent, a second correct one.
I would think you'd be OK Kurt by givng them an orig copy. Communication was good from them, I'll give them that much
Sounds like some of the same guys are working there. I'm not sure if its a lack of attention to detail on there part or they are just trying to avoid at all costs putting an option or something else that doesn't belong.
That 3-spd typo makes me lean towards the former.
My experience with them..Sent my build sheet and put order in...they sent 1st window sticker back with metallic added to color despite it not appearing on build sheet. Called up, they claimed I'm wrong, but would agree to do another one if I prove the color existed to them via dealer invoice from A.Vaughn. Got that and then they sent, a second correct one.
I would think you'd be OK Kurt by givng them an orig copy. Communication was good from them, I'll give them that much
I can show the one I wanted copied and the laminated one they sent back with the mistakes on it. After doing two they were done with me and got rude about it. It was typing type errors on the second one that I wanted corrected. I had actually paid for and got 3 window stickers on other cars that were done right.
Last edited by yo soy el warg; 03-28-2011 at 10:55 PM.
I don't like the look of this thread.... hear I am looking for information about where to get window stickers and we got people talking about old senate rulings and senate bills? What is the forum coming too....
I don't like the look of this thread.... hear I am looking for information about where to get window stickers and we got people talking about old senate rulings and senate bills? What is the forum coming too....
You are in the history section. Please re-read from beginning since you missed something.
I don't like the look of this thread.... hear I am looking for information about where to get window stickers and we got people talking about old senate rulings and senate bills? What is the forum coming too....
I don't remember the name of the company, but I did order an invoice a few years ago and they were located in Detroit. The cost was $50.
Checked it for accuracy, it was right on. It looks to me like it's a photocopy of the actual paper invoice that was send to the dealer (back in the paper era, I'm sure it's all electronic these days). It even had payment terms on it.
Just ordered 2 invoices today, 1 for my 88 IROC and 1 for my 91 RS. I will be sending them to Triple A to have window stickers made, along with one for my 97 Z28 (had PHS make for the TA a year ago...came back perfect).
I hope they get them right...I'm excited to get my invoices! For $100, I think its worth it...Allied Vaughn is emailing them to me in a pdf format by Friday...
Just so everybody knows, the windowsticker that I posted above is a photocopy of my original windowsticker. The spellings and all are exact as they came from GM because this sticker was on my window when the car was new. This is not a replica!!!
To whom it may concern, gage is one of those odd words that is correct when spelled either way: "gage" or "gauge." Just an FYI... look it up. GM has always spelled it gage.
Regarding the window stickers, PHS has been providing them for years. I got mine from them several years ago when I got my invoice, which came with spec/data sheets as well. The invoice and other info was one price, and the window sticker was an additional price.
Last edited by LAFireboyd; 03-30-2011 at 02:42 PM.
Just so everybody knows, the windowsticker that I posted above is a photocopy of my original windowsticker. The spellings and all are exact as they came from GM because this sticker was on my window when the car was new. This is not a replica!!!
I have an original window sticker for a 1988 GTA. "Gage" spelling is the same as Scott's:
This is also in regards to my experience with Triple A Enterprises
1. My window sticker also has "gage" shortened on the original.
2. When I had a reproduction made they got the 5.7 TPI wrong as TBI.
3. The leather appointment group from the invoice was put at the top as cloth.
4. When a second window sticker was made they got the top listings right, but didn't correct it in the itemized description below it.
5. When I asked for a 3rd window sticker with the corrections made in the bottom itemized portion they just wanted me to return the ones they made at my expense then would refund my money.
6. Nobody else is allowed to make these, so I'm out of luck because they can't get it right and don't want to bother with correctness. If the money isn't quick and easy they don't want to deal with your window sticker.
7. What is annoying is the 3 others I had previously ordered came back with no errors and looked just like the originals and I was very pleased.
8. If you order one cross your fingers and hope it is correct because if it isn't
you'll probably go through what I did or they will tell you to send back your window sticker for a refund and there is nowhere else to get one.
9. You either take what they offer you with mistakes or you don't get one.
10. There should be more than one company that is allowed to make these, if anyone knows of one let me know.
This is also in regards to my experience with Triple A Enterprises
1. My window sticker also has "gage" shortened on the original.
2. When I had a reproduction made they got the 5.7 TPI wrong as TBI.
3. The leather appointment group from the invoice was put at the top as cloth.
4. When a second window sticker was made they got the top listings right, but didn't correct it in the itemized description below it.
5. When I asked for a 3rd window sticker with the corrections made in the bottom itemized portion they just wanted me to return the ones they made at my expense then would refund my money.
6. Nobody else is allowed to make these, so I'm out of luck because they can't get it right and don't want to bother with correctness. If the money isn't quick and easy they don't want to deal with your window sticker.
7. What is annoying is the 3 others I had previously ordered came back with no errors and looked just like the originals and I was very pleased.
8. If you order one cross your fingers and hope it is correct because if it isn't
you'll probably go through what I did or they will tell you to send back your window sticker for a refund and there is nowhere else to get one.
9. You either take what they offer you with mistakes or you don't get one.
10. There should be more than one company that is allowed to make these, if anyone knows of one let me know.
Just ordered 2 invoices today, 1 for my 88 IROC and 1 for my 91 RS. I will be sending them to Triple A to have window stickers made, along with one for my 97 Z28 (had PHS make for the TA a year ago...came back perfect).
I hope they get them right...I'm excited to get my invoices! For $100, I think its worth it...Allied Vaughn is emailing them to me in a pdf format by Friday...
The window stickers for my 3 Irocs came back correct from Triple A Enterprises.
It was the one for my 1988 GTA notchback that they just couldn't get right.
I'm very interested to see how yours comes back. I hope there are no errors for your sake. If you pay $50.00 for one it should be correct not just close to correct. I even sent a copy of a factory original for a 1988 GTA notchback with the same options only difference was the body color and they couldn't transcribe it correctly from that. They thought I was complaining about some "minor errors" in the one they made for me.
Why else would you go to the trouble of first ordering the factory invoice for $50.00 then the window sticker for $50.00 if you didn't want an exact reproduction?
I'm very interested to see how yours comes back. I hope there are no errors for your sake. Why else would you go to the trouble of first ordering the factory invoice for $50.00 then the window sticker for $50.00 if you didn't want an exact reproduction?
I haven't ordered the window stickers yet...just the factory invoices. I got them for my IROC and RS, emailed to me last night...fast 24 hour turnaround!
Its pretty cool to get the invoices and see what dealers in the area sold my cars new (all 4 of mine were sold within 60 miles of where I've lived my whole life...3 of the 4 dealerships are still around, too), and what the MSRPs were. I figured my IROC was right around $20,000 ($19,500)...I was surprised my RS, having $800 leather seats and $880 t-tops, was still only $16,350. It shows a $515 credit for the stick...was there something weird for '91, where an automatic was standard and a stick was a delete option?
Yes, auto was standard. I remember facory ordering a 92 Formula, and I was pleasantly surprised when I found out the 5 speed would also earn me a credit.
Yes, auto was standard. I remember facory ordering a 92 Formula, and I was pleasantly surprised when I found out the 5 speed would also earn me a credit.
Sorry to get this off track, but my memory is getting weaker, and I think this is incorrect.
I believe the auto was an extra cost option on the Formula. But since the GTA came standard with 5.7 auto, a credit was given for the 5.0 manual. Not sure about Camaro.
Also, what wasn't mentioned was the price of $35 for Camaros up to 1988. 1989 on up or $40. The windowsticker can be laminated for $3 more. Here's the history lesson.
Window Stickers
Did you ever wonder why new vehicles have window stickers? Many people think they are meant to show your neighbors that you bought a new car, or to annoy you with the glue residue on the window, but this is not the case.
In March of 1958, Senator Michael Monroney, Chairman of the Senate Subcommittee on Automobile Marketing Practices, proposed a bill that would take the mystery out of new car prices. This bill required every automobile manufacturer to attach a label to the window of each new vehicle, which would show the manufacturer’s suggested retail price, transport methods, freight charges, and accessory prices. This would be the first time in twenty years that a consumer could walk into an automobile dealership and find an itemized, accurate price tag on a new vehicle.
Prior to the proposal of this bill, there was often a large discrepancy between the showroom price and the actual price of a new vehicle. The fact was that existing price tags did not tell the full story. Most customer-quoted prices were for “stripped-down” models and did not include additions for preparation charges, freight charges, federal, state, and local taxes, or optional factory-installed equipment requested by the purchaser.
These hidden charges were used by some dealers to increase the selling price while giving the new vehicle buyer an inflated idea of their trade-in allowance. This price confusion led to a slump in auto sales during the early 1950’s. Senator Monroney’s bill was designed to prevent the abuse of the new vehicle list prices, but would not, however, prevent dealers and buyers from bargaining over vehicle prices.
Senator Monroney received widespread support for this bill from both consumers and dealers. Dealers viewed the Monroney Label as an opportunity to restore the confidence of the new vehicle buyers, which they hoped would result in a more successful sales year.
On July 7, 1958, Monroney’s bill became a law. Beginning on September 1, 1958, every automobile manufacturer was required to securely affix a label to the window of the vehicle, disclosing information concerning the vehicle and its price. Any manufacturer who failed to comply, could be levied a fine of not more than $1000. Removal, alteration, or illegibility of the required label could result in a fine of not more than $1000 and/or imprisonment of not more than one year.
Once enacted, the law increased both dealer morale and auto sales. Customers grew more confident in their ability to make an informed decision and get the best deal possible. This law was instrumental in brightening industry-wide automobile sales during that time, by increasing consumer confidence.
In this day and age, we tend to take window stickers for granted, but the next time you are out shopping for a new car, you can thank Senator Michael Monroney for making your job much easier.
I have a 1988 Pontiac Fiero GT. I am trying to get a window sticker for my car. Would you know if the place you are referring about does the window stickers for Pontiacs? if so, can you please send me there web site or number. Thank you.
I have a 1988 Pontiac Fiero GT. I am trying to get a window sticker for my car. Would you know if the place you are referring about does the window stickers for Pontiacs? if so, can you please send me there web site or number. Thank you.
The first thing you need to do is contact http://www.gmmediaarchive.com/?page=1 and they should be able to get you your Dealer invoice. If they do not have it then www.phs-online.com (Pontiac Historical Services) might have it.
I went ahead and got the invoice for my GTA, it was really cool to see where the car came from and a lot of other useful info. Thanks for sharing the link.
PHS does a great job for sure. Did this for my 1979 Pontiac Bonneville 2 Door Coupe Brougham. Our family were the original owners and ordered it out of a dealership in SoCal but the window sticker got destroyed though we did have the dealer invoice. So complete and a great service! Pic of my Bonneville, replaced the Landau vinyl on roof and a few other small things and this is the original paint!
Fivestar
Last edited by fivestar; 11-25-2021 at 10:56 AM.
Reason: add pic
03-28-2011, 04:54 PM
GM has always spelled it gage.
