Who all owns an Iron Duke f-body? - Page 2 - History / Restoration - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

philoldsmobile · 10-21-2002, 03:59 PM

I suppose, you have to come to the conclusion that unless light weight is ultra important (racing etc) it is just not worth extracting that kind of power, when the V8's have it by deffault because of their size.

200 big engine hp is always better than 200 small engine hp because the spread of power is far greater.

Case in point, VTEC honda engines;

good power for size, but only between 6000 and 8000 rpm.

go for a gear shift at 7500, miss it, finaly shift having lost speed, engine at 5200 rpm = very little power, loads of lost time untill the wild profile on the VTEC cam kicks in

unless you have driven a car with one of these engines you cannot appreciate the on / off power delivery

a rough rule of thumb, the area UNDER a torque curve is more important than the peak of the curve itself

billsfirebird · 10-21-2002, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 84 Challenge
Yes...it's basically half a small block. Some parts, such as pistons/rods from a small black, will work with an Iron Duke. If you use a block from Kansas Racing Products, a V-8 head can be used. Check out this site....namely that pretty little engine. Yes....that's an Iron Duke. BTW....recently read about an individual getting 195hp out of his 2.5 Fiero. A tremendous abount of work/money was done to achieve this, though.

Brandon

Were you trying to show us a weblink in your post? You said check out this site........just curious.

84 Challenge · 10-21-2002, 10:36 PM

Sorry guys!

www.kansasracingproducts.com

philoldsmobile.....I'm fully aware of the difference between 200hp 4-cyl vs. 200hp V-8 thing. I also realize the tremendous amount of work involded in, as you say, extracting that kind of power from a small engine. Mine, I assure you, will never see 195hp. To me, once again, it's the WTF factor. Just having a 140+hp Iron Duke Camaro. Not alot of 2.5 F-Body's are still in existance. How many of those that are still alive are modified Iron Dukes? I personally would be the happiest guy in the world just to extract 140+hp out of mine. Which won't cost as much as you think. Here's (below) a brief rundown of what I'd like to do with mine. May or maynot do ALL of this. Got it off the S10 pickup board. Below might produce 140 -150hp per the S10 board. Once again everyone.....how many of you have a modified Iron Duke F-Body? I assure you....it's nothing more than a WTF factor. Just trying to think of some ways around lowering a V-8 into the engine compartment.

Block tanked cleaned etc
3.0 Stroke marine crank
Forged rods to complement crank. ARP 220kpsi bolts
Forged pistons 9.5-9-10.1 to 1 comp.
Stock head Mild Port and serious polish
Stock intake port matched, intake hole bored and "dug out a bit" , Holley TBI or a Bored stock TBI with a stronger injector
a mild cam that is still streetable
Header
MSD Ignition Box and coil.

philoldsmobile · 10-22-2002, 03:23 PM

I think this has the makings of a great car, GM could have done more with the 2.5 , turbo's perhaps? they could have given the 2.3 turbo mustang a run for it's money. instead it's just another missed opportunity.

Camaro's (and 'birds) are the kind of car that grow and change with their owner, making it yours is the most important thing.

The second most important thing is keeping us informed! I have never seen a 4 pot in the flesh! the long strings of V8's get boring. (ok, thats not true, these cars are never boring)

I think 125 - 140 hp (normaly aspirated) should see the 'maro move quite well enough, but the exhaust note will make people do a double take

billsfirebird · 10-22-2002, 03:39 PM

Now that I have a 2000 Grand Am as a daily driver, I have put my 84 on "PARK" and haven't been driving it on a continous basis. My plans are to keep this car a 4 banger but I want to do some things to improve the motor. Headers, bigger throttle body (if available), and other go faster (but it wont be too fast

) goodies.

Trouble is I know alot more about body and interior than motor. I want to go through this car nose to tail and detail it and make it a show car.

Ive already started cleaning out the engine bay and found some rust...gotta get rid of that.

Im looking forward to working on it again.

84 Challenge · 10-22-2002, 04:36 PM

Even after this rebuild, I'm sure my 4-cyl will get boring (that's what I'm worried about). My last car (before the Camaro) was a 2000 Mustang GT with a 4.6 single overhead cam pumping out 260hp at the flywheel. Let me tell you, there's nothing like popping her in 3rd gear while entering an interstate and flooring it. With two great years of that, a 4-cyl of any type is a major step down. Dropping a V-8 in the Camaro, at some point in time, is inevitable. Then again, could always keep the Camaro as is & purchase an 82-84 Z28. But trying to prevent my yard from looking like a used car lot. Can't have it both ways!!!

Good luck Bill with your Bird! Mine on the other hand will rot in my yard for a little while longer. Still trying to get it running, amongst many other things.

Brandon

King_Cobra · 10-27-2002, 12:25 AM

Well I just found a Camaro with the 2.5L I am going to buy it for $500 on this coming tuesday. The reason I am buying it is because of the gas mileage and the price of insurance on it. Compared to my 86 and 88 Iroc-Z's.

billsfirebird · 10-31-2002, 12:12 PM

Cleaned up my Iron Duke a bit.

Took me 4 hours to this point. Many more hours to come. I don't drive this car on a daily basis anymore so I am going to finally fix all the trouble areas.

philoldsmobile · 11-01-2002, 03:06 PM

I think this thread has started a renasance!
colllectors look out, 4 pot 3rd gens are the latest hot ticket!

lookin good bill!

billsfirebird · 11-01-2002, 03:22 PM

thanks phil,

my next goal is to replace both "battery trays" and fix the hole in the firewall underneath my fan motor. Do some touch up painting in there too.

I want to redo the headliner, sailpanels, sunvisors and carpet too. I think that will really freshen things up a bit. I also want to strip the car down to bare metal and repaint it. This, is all reserved for the future.

84 Challenge · 11-01-2002, 04:31 PM

My car is a sad story! There's a long list of things that "have" to be done. Then there's the "want" list. Don't even know where to start. This car is in such pathetic shape.

Brandon

philoldsmobile · 11-03-2002, 05:07 PM

NO thirdgen is ever pathetic, just challenging!

you'll get there!

BTW, Brandon, one more post, and you're a senior member!

84 Challenge · 11-03-2002, 08:55 PM

"Challenging" is an understatement....philoldsmobile!!! But you're right...I'll get there!

Brandon

ROBERTDMERRILL · 11-06-2002, 08:21 AM

My brothers first car was a 1982 Metallic Dark Blue V4 Camaro. It had white wall tires & white side door moldings. No T's, no power anything, just radio, A/C, & pastic dark blue seats. He bought it in 1985 for $2000. He put another $2000 for new engine, trans, tires, paint, etc. & it lasted 2 years. What a piece of ****! It was the slowest, weak handling & when you stop at a light the engine would sputter.

costill91Z · 11-08-2002, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by billsfirebird
The IRON DUKE is half of the Pontiac 301 Engine. No one really made the connection because the 301 died with the late seventies and the IRON DUKE didn't hit it big until the early 80's.

This is pretty ironic because I owned a 301 powered 81 trans am. Never made the connection.

actually, its the same as 1/2 as a 302, b/c the cid is 151 on the duke, and it uses the same 4.00 x 3.00 bore and stroke. i know that the 302 is a ford, but chevy made one too

i saw an iron duke 84 bird s/e w/50k orig. mi. in the paper for 700. i wanted it, but i already have 3 cars. also i know a dealership here in columbus, that sells crate iron dukes for $750

84 Challenge · 11-08-2002, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by costill91Z
also i know a dealership here in columbus, that sells crate iron dukes for $750

Really!!! Are they just factory replacements or do they have some performance toys? How much?

Brandon

spud · 11-11-2002, 03:40 AM

Originally My 82 was a iron duke car. When I got it, it was blown beyond recognition. I couldn't even get it to turn over. #1 piston had worn throught the cyl wall. The engine had a bent crank for a lot of years.
Its been slightly modified since

Later
Spud

billsfirebird · 11-12-2002, 02:42 PM

Well I finished cleaning up my engine bay...for the most part. Its getting too cold and Ive been battling sickness for the last week. I cleaned her all up and getting ready to house it for the winter.

Whatcha think? This is the cleanest the car has ever been.

billsfirebird · 11-12-2002, 02:44 PM

Heres a shot of the car in my neighborhood.

It was a little overcast. I wanted to get the car in a cool background with the leaves changing color and what not. The next day was sunny but about 80% of the leaves blew off overnight in a storm.

philoldsmobile · 11-12-2002, 03:13 PM

looking great bill, there is something so fresh and right about the way your 'bird sits.

PLEASE never swap a V8 into it!

I'm also rather jelous about your neighborhood, that looks a lovely area. The photo of your bird instantly goes in at about no3 in my all time fave F body photo's

Are your tyres smaller than the 6 and 8 cyl cars, my 8 runs 235 x 60 x 15 and my mates IROC's run 255 x 50 x 17 (i think)

yours look like 205's?

billsfirebird · 11-12-2002, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by philoldsmobile
Are your tyres smaller than the 6 and 8 cyl cars, my 8 runs 235 x 60 x 15 and my mates IROC's run 255 x 50 x 17 (i think) yours look like 205's?

Actually if I recal they are 225x50x16 I wanted the stock size of 245x50x16 but they rubbed my inner fender. I had to go with the smaller size. Oh well. I didn't want to spend near $400 for tires and ruin them so I spend $350 on the 225's.

Check out the thread I started... "Fall Colors! Great day for my bird...pics inside" in the Appearance and Detailing board. There's more pics there.

That neighborhood is one of the oldest in my hometown. There is a park just down the street with some really nice homes too. i have the "servants quarters" at the end of the block.

Its still home though.

costill91Z · 11-12-2002, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 84 Challenge
Really!!! Are they just factory replacements or do they have some performance toys? How much?

Brandon

i think that they are just factory replacements, but thats cheap for a new engine from gm

84 Challenge · 11-12-2002, 10:19 PM

Lookin' good Bill!!! Mine will be there someday.

Brandon

By the way, just noticed how your car has that hose from the grill to the air cleaner. Need to find one for mine. You think the car would run differently without one?

philoldsmobile · 11-14-2002, 03:08 PM

looks real similar to the one on the LG4 4bbl V8, it might be worth 1 or 2 bhp, because it ducts cool air into the engine.

I have just removed mine, because i fitted an Edlebrock air filter, however much its worth, it is less than the filter kit, because the car is quicker (but noisier) without it! it still runs great!

don't panic, you wont die without it, but it's probably worth looking for if you plan a restoration to stock, if you plan on go faster parts, forget it, go for a performance filter

GTDave · 12-07-2002, 04:17 PM

My first 3rd Gen was an iron duke. That car got me hooked on the 3rd gen's too. It was a 84 4cyl, 4 spd. Black with camel interior. It had some aftermarket rims, but i picked up the originals from teh previous owner. That car has me hooked, imagine my surprise when i met my wife and she drove a 84 6cyl. its the car in my signature.
Just to add, after having a 84, i didn't much like the 85 up interiors.

Mark W. Winning · 12-08-2002, 05:17 PM

My play car (85) had the old duke in her. I pulled the motor just after I got it because of a rod knock. They motor sat for a year and was put in an s-10 for a temp driver. It just blew up, three years later! Any motor the runs that long with a rod knock is good in my book.

84 Challenge · 12-30-2002, 04:24 PM

Well....after many hours of throwing wrenches and plenty of fowl language. She's running after 6 months of deadness. Thanks to a few tobacco spittin', ******* mechanic relatives in East Texas....she running

! Here's a short list of what I need for her to be pretty. Can't wait to bring her home to Houston!

1. New carpet
2. New headliner
3. New radio
4. New dash
5. New seats
6. A/C & Heating wire harness work
7. New exhaust
8. New door panels

Later,
Brandon

BTW....I was soooo close to basically wadding her up and throwing her away (almost sold her for $200). Me was so frustrated with her.

philoldsmobile · 12-30-2002, 04:27 PM

Congratulations!

I'ts good to see that another thirdgen lives again, especialy one of the rare iron duke cars.

Keep up the good work.

Phil.