For All 1987 Camaro Owners>> - History / Restoration - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

Willie · 02-10-2004, 10:40 PM

The production figures listed in the Camaro White Book for 1987 options are bogus. Although these figures should be considered “official” numbers from GM, it is easy to see how grossly in error they are.

GM determined that it would be simpler for the consumer if major options were grouped together and offered in packages. These packages were first offered on the Camaro in 1987.

Almost every option contained within an option package was not available separately. Here’s an example:

Z28 Option Package #2 (RPO 1SB) contains:
Tinted Glass
Air Conditioning
Tilt Steering
Front & Rear Floor Mats
Body-Side Moldings
Intermittent Windshield Wiper System
Cruise Control
AM/FM Stereo w/Cassette
Power Door Lock System
Power Windows
Power Hatch Release
Auxiliary Lighting

Of these options, only tinted glass, air conditioning, body-side moldings and power door locks were available separately.

Let’s look at a production figure for an option that was available only in a package, power windows. According to the White Book, 6509 units were installed. Also from the White Book, total 1987 Camaro production was 137,760. Based on these official figures, only five percent were equipped with power windows. Does this sound reasonable? To determine this, let’s examine how many Camaros had power windows in the years prior to and immediately after 1987:

1985
180,018 Total Production
88,381 Power Windows (49 percent)

1986
192,219 Total Production
110,155 Power Windows (57 percent)

1987
137,760 Total Production
6,509 Power Windows (5 percent)

1988
96,275 Total Production
60,622 Power Windows (63 percent)

1989
110,739 Total Production
61,704 Power Windows (56 percent)

Something is weird….. If similar comparisons for different options available only in packages are made, the results are the same. Obviously, my conclusion that 1987 option production figures are in error from the above figures is speculative at best. However, there is a way to confirm that at least some of these figures are not correct. Check this out:

1987 LT Option Package #1
This is the base LT option on the Sport Coupe with no further options.
794 is the official figure. This means only 749 Sport Coupes were built with the LT option. Sounds very rare….. but wait>>

The White Book lists these tires:

4,522 P195/70R14 Eagle GT
2,242 P205/70R14 Blackwall
1,793 P205/70R14 White Stripe
8,557 Total

All three tires were available only on the LT!! What does that tell you about the “official” 794 units built?

So what happened? Here's my speculation. At the onset of the 1987 production run, Chevy attempted to keep track of every option (as in years past). This is why every option has a production figure. But because most of these options were grouped together, Chevy realized it was fruitless to keep track of EVERY option. The counting stopped during production. This would explain why every option quantity recorded is extremely low.

I can verify a couple of these quantities as in error, which leads to the assumption that they are all in error. Here goes:

Example #1: Z28 with IROC-Z Option.
The original released option quantity figures show 3,452 RPO B4Z (IROC-Z). To contest this figure, notice how the official quantity of P245/50-VR16 tires is 38,889. Knowing this tire size was only used on the IROC-Z, why the discrepancy? I brought this example to the attention of the publishers of the Camaro White Book. Later editions of this book have a revised quantity of 38,889 IROC-Z's produced. This is the ONLY instance where an option quantity was changed.

Example #2: Air Conditioning.

1986:
167,602 equipped with A/C out of a total production of 192,219.
87 percent.

1987:
14,743 with A/C out of 137,760.
11 percent.

1988:
88,431 with A/C out of 96,275.
92 percent.

I can only conclude that the A/C option count is grossly in error for 1987.

Example #3: Body-side moldings.

1986:
145,607 out of 192,219
76 percent.

1987:
22,309 out of 137,760
16 percent.

1988:
80,990 out of 96,275
84 percent.

The 1987 figure must be in error.

Check any production figures for options that were available only in option packages, such as the ones I've done, such as power windows, power driver's seat, intermittent wipers, or floor mats and you'll see the same kind of results. I believe the only accurate production figures are for options that were available separate and not as part of a package, such as t-tops, limited slip rear axle and engines.

Starting in 1988, although option packages were still available, the individual options were also available separately, which makes 1987 a unique year in this respect. Counting each individual option was again simple. Chevrolet only had to count each separate option and not the packages. I think they learned a hard lesson.

My conclusion is that the optional production figures for 1987 are completely in error and of absolutely no use. Truly unfortunate.

WishIHadAZ · 02-13-2004, 11:40 PM

Wow man, that was pretty silly of them...

labrat · 02-18-2004, 07:03 PM

I really find it odd that if you got option level #2 1SB on a Z28 you got cruise control. If you got 1SB on an Iroc-z, like mine, you didn't get cruise control. Go figure

okfoz · 07-22-2004, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Example #2: Air Conditioning.

1986:
167,602 equipped with A/C out of a total production of 192,219.
87 percent.

1987:
14,743 with A/C out of 137,760.
11 percent.

1988:
88,431 with A/C out of 96,275.
92 percent.

I can only conclude that the A/C option count is grossly in error for 1987.

Example #3: Body-side moldings.

1986:
145,607 out of 192,219
76 percent.

1987:
22,309 out of 137,760
16 percent.

1988:
80,990 out of 96,275
84 percent.

The 1987 figure must be in error.

If you look at those numbers it may be safe to assume they got the numbers backwards:

11% did NOT get A/C, but 89% did, therefore 122,607 with A/C

16% dod NOT get side moldings but 84% did, therefore 115,718 with moldings..

It almost perfectly lines up with the other figures from 86 & 88

Just a thought.

John

vsixtoy · 12-26-2004, 01:13 PM

I have a code I can not find anywhere after searching both TGO and the internet.

The car is an '87 RS Camaro out of Van Nuys CA and is Calif Only car that year.

The RPO code I am trying to decode is: Z5C

This is the "dealer" paint scheme, not "factory"- Factory was just white. I am assuming it has to do with a special suspension package this car had. Its a V6 but came with 31mm/23mm swaybars.

Kindof pointless because I changed everthing anyways, but I am just curious what that code is becasue it doesn't come up anywhere.

Randy82WS7 · 01-12-2005, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Z28 Option Package #2 (RPO 1SB) contains:
Tinted Glass
Air Conditioning
Tilt Steering
Front & Rear Floor Mats
Body-Side Moldings
Intermittent Windshield Wiper System
Cruise Control
AM/FM Stereo w/Cassette
Power Door Lock System
Power Windows
Power Hatch Release
Auxiliary Lighting

Of these options, only tinted glass, air conditioning, body-side moldings and power door locks were available separately.

thats odd, ive got an 87 Z28 sitting out here thats manual windows, manual locks, doesnt have tinted windows either,

its the car i cut up and stripped for parts today

rudyt5000 · 02-09-2005, 01:09 PM

does this mean my 87 z-28 is special ? i read that they were the last year camaros made at the original plant.....well i got cruise, a/c, p/w, limited slip, p/s, auto, bose system, no tint, power hatch, dont know what thats good for

okfoz · 02-09-2005, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rudyt5000
does this mean my 87 z-28 is special ? i read that they were the last year camaros made at the original plant.....well i got cruise, a/c, p/w, limited slip, p/s, auto, bose system, no tint, power hatch, dont know what thats good for

No tint? What are you referring to? You should have green windows... I have never seen a 3rd gen with Clear windows.

John

rudyt5000 · 02-09-2005, 07:14 PM

oh yeah took care of that no tint option long time ago ......but green would look "to fast to furious"l with a blue car if i wanted to include that as a performance mod ...but i would leave that to da ricers they do need all the horse power they can get

John in RI · 02-16-2005, 11:25 AM

I recently bought an updated "White Book" and looked at it quickly after reading this post. I found a couple of discrepancies after looking at it for only a few minutes.

The option code I was checking is 'PE1'. This option code is for the 14 inch "turbine" aluminum wheels that were used only on the Berlinetta and LT cars.

In 1987 the PE1 code was specific to the LT and shown as 4653 units..... Further questioning the 794 total number of LT's produced. ( the LT got wheel covers from the factory and the PE1 was apparently an individual option. )

The same option codes casts doubt on the total production of the Berlinetta in 1986,........ shown in countless articles as being 4479 cars. The PE1 code in 1986 ( for Berlinetta only ) was shown as 6596 units. ( again - the Berlinetta got wheel covers stock and the PE1 code was added because it was available as an individual option. ) Since the Sport coupe was equipped with 15 Inch wheels from GM,......... What did the other 2117 sets of PE1 14 inch aluminum wheels get installed on ??? Am I to supposed to believe that there wasn't a single Berlinetta sold in 86 with the standard wheels covers ??? When I added the number of tires reportedly placed on the Berlinetta in 1986 I got 6517 for a total......... Did Chevy ship 79 Berlinettas to dealers with PE1 aluminum wheels and no tires installed ???

I have also seen discrepancies in production figures countless times while working on cars....... My Green 84 Berlinetta originally got Rear disk brakes but no G80 code ( Book says POSI required.) I also got an 1986 Custom Cloth LS Conteur seat out of an 86 Sports Coupe. ( I'm VERY sure it was a SC !! ) The book says the car had to be a Z28 to get this option so that makes me question their reported total production of that seat option ( 184 total units. )

After owning over 20 third gens over the years I could go on & on - but I think you guys get the point. Chevy did a POOR job of recording the total number of options and where they could or could not be used over the years.

VincentZ28 · 03-11-2005, 11:54 PM

I guess the window tint means that the upper part of the windshield is tinted like in the older cars. My old 85 Z28 and the current 86 Z28 has tint in the windshield.

okfoz · 03-16-2005, 07:00 AM

It sounds like to me that the Whet book has little or no value over fire starter paper. Not to complain, but since there are so many descrepincies, and blatent errors, I would think there is no value to it whatsoever.

My point is if you cant trust it, whats the point?

Joh

John in RI · 03-16-2005, 06:43 PM

It's a great starting point for Newbies !!!

okfoz · 03-17-2005, 07:01 AM

I guess my point is, if it is not accurate, then why would you even read it. Its like trying to make an educated decision on how to do build something and the instructions are wrong.

I just see no value in something that is so grossly wrong. Its kind of like teaching a child the wrong sounds for letters, they woudl never learn to read properly.

JOhn

tom3 · 04-02-2005, 05:21 PM

Think the factories were just getting into the computer inventory and shipping for the materials as needed deal so hard to say how accurate any info could be. I remember back in the 60s my brother ordered a new 65 Impala, big deal back then to "special order" a car. Dealer called and said they couldn't get the 300Hp 327 engine and the positraction, factories too busy, couldn't make the parts in time. Well, he got the car, had the posi, not on the window sticker, and the engine was a 300hp 327, but it had a 300HP sticker on one valve cover, and a 250HP sticker on the other. Weird things happen and I agree that if the defining book is wrong, then it's pretty worthless.

Lisas83Camaro · 04-03-2005, 03:27 PM

Willie! Oh, Willie where are ya?

"Their large and in charge and lookin' fer.....Whaaaaaaaat???? "

ez · 11-30-2005, 11:03 AM

here is a good one for all to chew on.. through out the years i have been researching this question of an option that i have. I have the "HO" option which was dropped in 87 and replaced with the 350 option. well, early production run (Fall 1986) the 350 was not offered yet. Was brought on shortly afterwards. A few cars got through the assembliy line with the HO option before canceling this option. I have no way of confirming this. I am going off what the orginal owner advised me (as he special ordered this car back in late 1986), as he was a major car collector. Plus, i found through several different books, a blurp of text was noted on this unconfirmed fact.

I realize model year 1986 and back, the HO was a common otption. but on a 1987 model? is this common? or a myth of rarelity? the numbers of break outs from GM is poor..

here is what this car has from factory:
LB9 305
F41
G80 limited slip posi (i think this is the code) 2.73 gear
rear def
am/fm delco casst.
AC delete
Power locks, power seat(s), cruise, and power windows delete
floor mats delete
power front disc brakes, drum rear
power steerling
coupe, no T's offered on this HO option per the dealer and org owner
145 mph speedo
weaker cam (goes agasit the HO theory) as RPM redline is less

dark flame red metallic exterior paint, gray Z trim, 4 stipes, and black cloth interior.

any feedback would be insightful..

do we have a rare bird here?? or another F body with a 305 under the hood?

thanks
eddy

John in RI · 11-30-2005, 07:02 PM

The "HO" engine was a 305 L69 with a CARB fuel system,.... VIN code 'G'. What has led you to believe that your TPI car is an "HO" ????

P.S. REAL NICE Camaro Lisa !!!!

ez · 12-01-2005, 10:09 AM

true HO on 1986 and previous was carb....

mine on the other hand, per the orgin of the order/dealer, orginal owner, and options. all points leads to the HO option. yes, it even has the decal/badging HO under the 5.0 mark area. yes, one could argue and say that was placed on afterwards by other not chevy/factory. this is doubtful, as this car was purchused from a car collector.

plus this car does not have any power options, tilt wheel, pull out vents under the steering wheel (like in the 60's), windsheild wippers without the "timer" option, ....

interesting

John in RI · 12-02-2005, 03:37 PM

The "HO" reflected only a single option---> The L69 engine. So I have to ask again,......... What makes you think that your car is an 87 305 TPI "HO" car ???

Because the previous owner told you ?? ( NOT !! ) You know how many people have tried to sell me an 86 "factory" 350 IROC ?!?!?!?! A few of them even had T-Tops !!

Because the car has an "HO" emlem on it ( NOT !! ) Not a very sound way to identify a car !!

Because the dealer told the original owner ?? He wouldn't strech the truth to make a sale; would he ??? I've got a few 'big fish' stories too !!

If your car is an 87 than a real HO intake wouldn't even fit your engine block. Sure - in 86 the TPI and the L69 used the same intake bolt pattern & Cam and the TPI intake could be installed on a real HO motor..... But that was in 86.

Quote:

or another F body with a 305 under the hood

You hit the nail on the head !!!!!

okfoz · 03-28-2006, 11:54 AM

Were all the White Books like this or just the 2002 edition?

04-11-2006, 11:04 AM

I am starting restoration of a 1987 iroc-z w/ 350 tpi. Mine has 94,000 original miles on it. now am checkin options for the engine (rebuild or replace) any suggestions?
mine has t-tops, electric seat, power windows, A/C, auto trans, green windows,(soon to be darker),have finished outside and am puttin it back together after painting and interior redone. It had leather seats.replaced original hood with one from a 2002 style ss hood. It also has tilt steering and cruise control on it from factory. so i guess that mine is nothing special. what ya'll think? does have power door locks and rear hatch electric switch.

okfoz · 04-11-2006, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forace87iroc-z

I am starting restoration of a 1987 iroc-z w/ 350 tpi. Mine has 94,000 original miles on it. now am checkin options for the engine (rebuild or replace) any suggestions?
mine has t-tops, electric seat, power windows, A/C, auto trans, green windows,(soon to be darker),have finished outside and am puttin it back together after painting and interior redone. It had leather seats.replaced original hood with one from a 2002 style ss hood. It also has tilt steering and cruise control on it from factory. so i guess that mine is nothing special. what ya'll think? does have power door locks and rear hatch electric switch.

You would be better off asking this in a new thread rather than appending it on the end of this one.

John

bert4 · 08-01-2006, 05:24 PM

Gramps · 11-30-2006, 12:36 AM

it could also be because that was the last year that GM made camaros at the Norwood Ohio plant. some papers or info could easily be lost.