READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?" - Page 3 - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

okfoz · 07-28-2009, 10:41 AM

I estimate there were probably around 200 or so for 1992, I would think it would be similar for 1991 as I see about the same amount for both years. The option was a late option change for the 1991's so even though there were more 1991's made the availablilty timeframe was smaller.

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1985HO305L69 · 08-13-2009, 03:53 PM

What about the 508 1992 GTA's? (forgive me if I'm wrong)

AmorgetRS · 08-13-2009, 05:32 PM

As far as rare/desirable? They aren't that common, but they also aren't much different then the 91 GTAs. 92s are a little more desirable, but not much.

Racer X79 · 09-16-2009, 11:05 PM

First, I'd like to say great list/great thread, thank you for all the work and research. I have a question about the "1,665 (1985) Trans Am L69 5.0 H.O." entry. Is that number all 5-speed cars, or were automatics available with the L69 also? I am curious because I just bought a 1985 T/A with the L69 305 H.O. , MM5/M39 5-Speed trans, G80 (limited slip), GS4 (3.70 ratio), and J65 (4 wheel disk). Is there any way to tell if the 1,665 all included the same equipment as mine, or does my car break down farther (rarer?) than that. Any help would be great.

okfoz · 09-17-2009, 11:28 AM

In 1983, 1985 & 1986 the "H.O." was only available with the Manual Transmission. 1984 was the only year that the Automatic was available. The reason for this is there was no other top engine in 1984. Where in 83 you had the CFI, and in 1985 & 1986 you had the LB9 (TPI) as the top engine, 1984 only had the L69...

So to answer your question there is no further break down...

John

bowtiejoe · 09-23-2009, 06:31 PM

Great list! I have a LB9/MM5/G92 1990 Iroc-z in brilliant red ( 1 year only available in that color) 1 of 295 according to that list. It was made 12/1989, I was wondering if anyone knows the vin number of the last Iroc-z ever made?

okfoz · 09-23-2009, 07:38 PM

20,553 Camaros were made for 1990. Keep in mind that this is the only year (for third gens) where technically there were no cars made of a particular model year in the phisical year... If that does not make sense then... There were no 1990's made in 1990 they were all made in the Late summer/Fall of 1989... Thus the limited production run.

AFAIK There is currently no information about which car would have been the last IROC... The best you could do is create a listing of VIN's and work backwards, go to CARFAX and Autocheck and start inputing potential VIN's. Unfortunately the VIN would not tell you whether it was an RS or IROC... FORTUNATELY the engine Code in the VIN will because the IROC was only available with the LB9 or the L98, and the RS was only available with the V6 or the LO3. So if you find out what the Last 8 (L98) or F (LB9) car was made for 1990, then you would also have the last IROC...

The down side is at least 5 percent of the cars would no longer be registered on either service, so unless you got the very last VIN 1G1FP21??LL120553 you may never figure it out...

John

bowtiejoe · 09-23-2009, 08:10 PM

Thats a good idea! I never thought of doing that. On the driver's door sticker it say's it was manufactured 12/89. I've read on the internet that no Iroc's were made after 12/89, so it's gotta be 1 of the last few. The last numbers on the vin is 133240 that's a high number vin for a 90 iroc.

okfoz · 09-25-2009, 04:43 PM

I had the wrong data, there were 34896 Camaros in For 1990... The 20553 number was for Firebirds... Sorry...

So you have a very late 1990

John

robfig · 10-05-2009, 10:02 PM

John,

How about a 91 LB9/A4 GTA with T-tops and leather...just curious

okfoz · 10-06-2009, 08:59 AM

520 GTA LB9/A4
164 GTA LB9/M5

Problem is I am not sure how popular it will be... All of them should have the 2.73 axle. They will have the WS6 which is standard on the GTA.

Actually Leather was more popular than the Cloth on GTA's in 1991. About 73% of all GTA's in 1991 had leather.

Source:
http://www.gtasourcepage.com/91RPOFigures.html

robfig · 10-06-2009, 04:06 PM

John,

Does exterior color play any color

okfoz · 10-06-2009, 04:31 PM

It really depends, for example the Jamaica Yellow for 1992 is one of the most desired colors, probably due to its rarity. Some colors seem to be less desirable, but it really depends on who you talk to. Most people will take a red car, or a Black car, but it would depend on your location, for example a White car is an easier sale in Phoenix AZ than a Black car. The blues and the greens had some issues with paint peal...

rainmaker70 · 10-27-2009, 12:19 AM

Info needed any way to know how many 1983 sport coupes had j65 disc brakes My car 1983 sport coupe LG4 M5 F41 G80 J65 V08 GT4 3.73 and not many more options. Thanks

okfoz · 10-27-2009, 08:38 AM

7207 is the lowest number I could find in your list of RPO's that was for the F41, which was a SC specific option. I am not sure what all the F41 included other than special suspension pieces, I was not aware that the SC was available with the 3.73, as far as I knew that was a L69 option

rainmaker70 · 10-28-2009, 05:02 PM

Checked my cars build sheet last nite it has gt4-3.73 gears in a sport coupe. Thanks for the info.

okfoz · 10-28-2009, 09:23 PM

like I said I was not aware of it... As I think about it I think my 83 SC parts car has the 3.73 drum brake setup... I always thought someone swapped it in... intresting nonetheless...

John

florida_gators · 11-01-2009, 07:15 PM

I've always wondered if the 1990 Firebirds will command a premium, although slight, over the other years due to the lower production run. This isn't reflected yet, but I think it could be in the future. The curse toward collector value of the basic Firebird is the mass number produced, but in a twist that could help those in great shape (to an extent) since most everyone has either owned one or known someone who has. However, I agree that unless you have a personal attachment to your Firebird, it is foolish financially to restore it hoping to make a profit. Mine being my 1st car, I'm slowly fixing it up. On the flip side, I took mine out for a rare ride one day, body halfway through restoration and the interior completely gutted (carpeting included) except for the driver's seat and I overheard a couple of guys in the parking lot comment on what a cool car it was.

It is the GM75 (dark metallic red) w/ T-tops, so it really is a beautiful car when fully restored.

okfoz · 11-02-2009, 10:50 AM

Honestly, I lost my crystal ball so I will not be able to tell you the future. What I can do is speculate and give some historical examples to attempt to predict the future.

Look at the first Gens. I do not see a huge difference in price between any of the three years... Personally the trend that I see is the engine and transmission combination, and trim are the biggest contributing factors. There are some things that historically have become virtual truths. 1) The faster the car typically the more it will be worth. 2) The bigger the engine typically the more it will be worth. 3) People typically love options, certain options to be exact. 4) Unusual Factory combinations typically get juices flowing, such as the LB9/M5/3.42 or 3.45. 5)Unusual colors, like Yellow right now seems to be a big draw, it's a trend and will fluctuate from one color or another. Ultimately all of that will depend on the fickle public and the whims of the day.

The point in hand will an Airbag equipped car be worth more than a car without an airbag. For the most part keep in mind that just all Firebirds from 1987 - 1990 were cosmetically identical. There were changes from year to year, all of the changes were not to better the car, but in many cases to keep the cost down on the car... I can give examples if really interested.

However there was an anomaly for the Firebird & Camaro in 1990, that most cars in the GM fleet had not yet seen, the Airbag. Although it was on some of the upper end cars, like Rivieras, and Cadillacs, The problem I have with the 90-92 considers the fit and finish of the bag itself is lousy. Not to mention just about every 90 - 92 F-body I have ever driven the steering wheel moves up and down, like there is something worn out in the column...

Give it or take it... If the car is desired normally, The model year may help a little, For example a 1990 IROC, GTA, Trans Am or Formula, with a 350/3.27, or the LB9/M5/3.45 may see a slight change, but I really do not see a Formula, LO3/A4 being worth more than an 88, or 92 for that matter. The thing that I see is there are not a group of people out there wanting a base firebird, or an RS or SC... I know of many people that would take a Formula over a GTA any day of the week, but the majority of people would prefer a GTA or IROC over all other models. I would personally not get wrapped up into the rarity of the car, At one time I thought that way about my 1987 Formula, until I realized that all Formulas came with WS6, and the LG4/A4 was worth only a little more than a boat anchor. So I modified the crap out of the car and I enjoy it... I am saving my 350 convertible for a good logical reason however.

John

adore · 11-11-2009, 11:27 AM

Ok my dad wonders if there is many cars like his, It is a 1992 firebird convertible 305 tbi 5spd, It came with trans-am aero pkg but not the T/A hood or tail lights.

Here is the best pic i could find on my computer, you can also see my gta in the pic!

KITT1983 · 11-11-2009, 01:30 PM

how much is my 1983 Potniac trans am Daytona 500 edition worth?

AmorgetRS · 11-11-2009, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adore

Ok my dad wonders if there is many cars like his, It is a 1992 firebird convertible 305 tbi 5spd, It came with trans-am aero pkg but not the T/A hood or tail lights.

Here is the best pic i could find on my computer, you can also see my gta in the pic!

The Aero package was very common on 90-92 Firebirds. There is nothing rare about it, it is desirable because it is a Vert, but not near as much as a Trans Am.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KITT1983

how much is my 1983 Potniac trans am Daytona 500 edition worth?

More then most other 83s. It's cool because they had a lot of "first year" options. They don't seem to be super desirable, but it's hard to find them in good shape. Pricing probably falls along the lines of the 84 15ths.

okfoz · 11-11-2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adore

Ok my dad wonders if there is many cars like his, It is a 1992 firebird convertible 305 tbi 5spd, It came with trans-am aero pkg but not the T/A hood or tail lights.

Here is the best pic i could find on my computer, you can also see my gta in the pic!

There were 46 5spd's installed in the BASE firebird, (does not include Trans Ams) in 1991... Unfortunately it does not break out the number of V6 and LO3 (as the car in question is) with the M5. Nonetheless it is one of the more unusual... dare I say "Rare" Firebirds with the combination... What it does to value is debatable...

Honestly in the long run I would suspect that the GTA could be worth more than a base Firebird Convertible if everything was equal... may be wrong, but that is my opinion.

John

KITT1983 · 11-11-2009, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmorgetRS

More then most other 83s. It's cool because they had a lot of "first year" options. They don't seem to be super desirable, but it's hard to find them in good shape. Pricing probably falls along the lines of the 84 15ths.

but how much in price are they worth?

okfoz · 11-12-2009, 09:16 AM

Ultimately what it boils down to is 1) condition, 2) miles, 3) what someone is willing to pay. This link will give you places to go to start some basic research.

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/hi...g-what-my.html (Before asking "What is my car worth" Read FIRST!)

adore · 11-12-2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by okfoz

There were 46 5spd's installed in the BASE firebird, (does not include Trans Ams) in 1991... Unfortunately it does not break out the number of V6 and LO3 (as the car in question is) with the M5. Nonetheless it is one of the more unusual... dare I say "Rare" Firebirds with the combination... What it does to value is debatable...

Honestly in the long run I would suspect that the GTA could be worth more than a base Firebird Convertible if everything was equal... may be wrong, but that is my opinion.

John

ok tks buts its a 92

Shadow Z · 11-12-2009, 04:54 PM

After reading all of this, it makes me unbelievably happy to have a run of the mill 1986 305 TPI IROC. Considering that 305 has been gone for a very long time, and is currently crushed, or still rusting away in the junkyard.

Last night, I hacked up original door panels, and original carpet. It's good to do a restoration without going by RPO codes.

okfoz · 11-16-2009, 03:21 PM

now don't that make me feel stupid...

Unfortunately I do not have the numbers for the 1992 Verts... I would, however, imagine the numbers would be indeed similar... someone may actually know, it may be on my list and I forgot.

L695speed · 11-16-2009, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adore

ok tks buts its a 92

Adore, is it an export car? I've seen photos of Trans Ams with the base firebird taillights and hood, that were for the export market...

okfoz · 11-17-2009, 10:03 AM

I do recall seeing T/A's that were exported with the LO3, and the base tail lights, and the export mirrors, but not the hood. to my recollection. Being that Adore is in WA it could be possible that he has a Canada spec car.. The cars that went to Canada had very similar specs as US cars as far as body components. The only reason for the special tail lights is for those cars that went to parts of Europe... Some of them also had special front fender amber lights that were not flush with the fender, but stuck out so that people could see them blinking when next to you on the road.

John