History / RestorationGot a question about Third Gen (1982-1992) Camaro or Firebird history? Where can I find these original parts? What is this option or RPO code? Those questions, answers, and more!
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True Scott, but I'm not a Chrysler fan. I look at it strictly from a 100% black and white appearance and performance point of view.
...the Camaro carries an emotional attachment. To me, that new Camaro is a nice car, with good performance and decent looks, and someone at GM dug up a Camaro badge to put on it. It's NOT a CAMARO. Camaro has ALWAYS had a cousin in the Firebird. They both have ALWAYS been a dedicated platform. It's always been a blue collar performance car.
No point in arguing this, because it's my opinion, and it won't change. To me it wreaks of everything that went wrong at GM.
No, no one with a ****** would drive that Camaro. Thankfully. ...in the meantime, me and all my ******ed friends will be hanging out with our 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th gen camaros. "new" Camaro owners will be hanging out with their Corvette friends.
Chris, just an FYI that the Challenger is not on a dedicated pony car platform either. It shares the same underpinnings as the Chrysler 300.
....which explains why that porker weighs 4200 lbs! Anyone else notice that cars just keep getting heavier and heavier all of a sudden? I hate to say it, but the Rustang is the only car in its class that still weighs around 3500 lbs...even the Camaro is around 38-3900 IIRC.
Look, stereotyping people as a whole due to what they drive is ridiculous. It really depends on how the car is. Most Third Gen owners I know have mint ones here in the NE and are no where near "low class," more like upper middle class. Everyone owns everything. I've seen "low class" people with Corvettes, M*stangs, and especially ricers. The used beat ones tend to fall into those hands and every make and model of car has this. Sometimes people purposely buy the ones that are a mess to fix them up though, and that alone is not done cheaply. You just can't judge a book by it's cover. There are all types of people into everything. When these cars were new they were the "it" thing and the top cars weren't really cheap, you had to have some decent cash to buy one, like todays 5th Gen.
When it came to personal style in the 80's, it was an awkward time and Third Gens were the most popular car of their day. Those days are gone though. There were alot produced, especially base models, and they have aged. They're not all gonna be mint and expensive. There are going to be poor examples. Basically the same can be said for the 5.0's, of which I've seen many a clunker driven by weirdos. Are they all like that though? Of course not. People really need to let the generalizing go. I believe it will happen soon enough. It's been getting better and even previous Gens went through the same thing. Most Thirds I see now are in great shape and are no longer daily drivers, in the not-so-far future that will be the norm for our cars much like 1sts and 2nds. People from all walks already see my car as something rare/special/desirable and something to wave at and yell compliments at all the time. They offer ridiculous prices to buy it, to which I refuse. 10 years from now that will all be increased dramatically, watch and see.
Sometimes it isn't just about the money means to complete a project. I've seen some really "nice" detroit iron get butchered by some no talent, no skill, slab labour type wanna-be car guys.
Also, to those that say the 5th Gen is not a Camaro, the development of this car is almost no different than the 1st Gen which was also based off of an existing car. They were made from the X-Body Nova and the Camaros chassis was renamed F-Body. There was no Firebird in the plans when the original Camaro project started either, not until it was almost done actually. The new Camaro is based on a modified G8 Zeta platform, and they were sure to put F as the 4th digit of the VIN, just as our cars have, to help drive the point home. There are already plans to make the 6th Gen on a smaller, lighter chassis, possibly called Alpha. The 5th's chassis was the only one available and while they are heavy due to design and safety regulations, it is a sold structure and a very well built car all around. Supporting GM is what we want to do, not help run the company that made our cars out of business.
They were made from the X-Body Nova and the Camaros chassis was renamed F-Body.
...exactly my point. ...and with the renaming of the "F-Body", it started a new FIRST generation. Second, Third, and Fourth Generations of "F-Bodies", not X-Bodies followed until 2002.
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The new Camaro is based on a modified G8 Zeta platform
Once again proving my point. NOT an F-Body, but based on the Zeta, four door G8 platform. ....creating once again, a new line. A new "FIRST" generation of something. Maybe H-Body, for hippo.
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they were sure to put F as the 4th digit of the VIN, just as our cars have, to help drive the point home.
According to Scott Settlemire, while talking to him PERSONALLY at the gathering a few years back, it didn't originally have an "F", but they went back and assigned an "F" so it would be an F-Body. So, I concede. It has a F in the vin. 35 years of heritage being debated, and GM is hanging it all on a quarter inch tall stamped letter in the Vin tag. Literally. THAT little "F" is what THEY think is important.
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The 5th's chassis was the only one available and while they are heavy due to design and safety regulations, it is a sold structure and a very well built car all around.
The world war two fighter, the P51 Mustang was conceived, designed, and flew in about 250 days. It's arguable the best fighter plane of the era. GM, took 7 YEARS to design a car on an existing platform.
I will concede that build quality is exceptional, and even though the design is a rip off of a 40 year old car, it does look nice.
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Supporting GM is what we want to do, not help run the company that made our cars out of business.
Economics and politics aside....
WHY? Why do we need to stand up and support GM? It's a business, and they suck at it. If I screw up MY job, I get fired. It's not like GM hasn't fumbled almost every ball they've been handed for the last 20 years. No, I have NO love for the current GM, and I certainly don't owe them anything. I like certain specific models, but that's as far as it goes. I remember when the 4th gen came out, and all the car guys I knew blindly followed it. ..and don't get me wrong, it's a good car. Right now, most the guys in our local club are NOT fans of the new Camaro.
...exactly my point. ...and with the renaming of the "F-Body", it started a new FIRST generation. Second, Third, and Fourth Generations of "F-Bodies", not X-Bodies followed until 2002.
Once again proving my point. NOT an F-Body, but based on the Zeta, four door G8 platform. ....creating once again, a new line. A new "FIRST" generation of something. Maybe H-Body, for hippo.
According to Scott Settlemire, while talking to him PERSONALLY at the gathering a few years back, it didn't originally have an "F", but they went back and assigned an "F" so it would be an F-Body. So, I concede. It has a F in the vin. 35 years of heritage being debated, and GM is hanging it all on a quarter inch tall stamped letter in the Vin tag. Literally. THAT little "F" is what THEY think is important.
The world war two fighter, the P51 Mustang was conceived, designed, and flew in about 250 days. It's arguable the best fighter plane of the era. GM, took 7 YEARS to design a car on an existing platform.
I will concede that build quality is exceptional, and even though the design is a rip off of a 40 year old car, it does look nice.
Economics and politics aside....
WHY? Why do we need to stand up and support GM? It's a business, and they suck at it. If I screw up MY job, I get fired. It's not like GM hasn't fumbled almost every ball they've been handed for the last 20 years. No, I have NO love for the current GM, and I certainly don't owe them anything. I like certain specific models, but that's as far as it goes. I remember when the 4th gen came out, and all the car guys I knew blindly followed it. ..and don't get me wrong, it's a good car. Right now, most the guys in our local club are NOT fans of the new Camaro.
....I still point to the fact that there's guy on the A&D forum painting his car with a roller...
You think something this uneducated has never been done to a beat up Corvette, M*stang, ricers, etc.? Think again! There's even worse out there. I guess all the owners of those cars are like that!
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Originally Posted by Abubaca
...exactly my point. ...and with the renaming of the "F-Body", it started a new FIRST generation. Second, Third, and Fourth Generations of "F-Bodies", not X-Bodies followed until 2002.
Once again proving my point. NOT an F-Body, but based on the Zeta, four door G8 platform. ....creating once again, a new line. A new "FIRST" generation of something. Maybe H-Body, for hippo.
The 1st Gens essentially run on an X-Body chassis, (renamed F) which were also available in 2 door or 4 doors on the Nova..... Sounds kinda familiar to me! GM used the closest thing possible that they had back then and rushed it, just like with the 5th Gen. They were not prepared for the first run or the return.
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According to Scott Settlemire, while talking to him PERSONALLY at the gathering a few years back, it didn't originally have an "F", but they went back and assigned an "F" so it would be an F-Body. So, I concede. It has a F in the vin. 35 years of heritage being debated, and GM is hanging it all on a quarter inch tall stamped letter in the Vin tag. Literally. THAT little "F" is what THEY think is important.
The F in the VIN started with our Gen IIRC. They put it in the 5th to keep the "F-Body" tradition going. 5ths are the only cars running on the modified Zeta.
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The world war two fighter, the P51 Mustang was conceived, designed, and flew in about 250 days. It's arguable the best fighter plane of the era. GM, took 7 YEARS to design a car on an existing platform.
I will concede that build quality is exceptional, and even though the design is a rip off of a 40 year old car, it does look nice.
Building something like that and all the loops and politics that go into a car business are extremely different creatures. Also, GM hasn't had its best management in the last decade, which is why they need to restructure. To get better products out and faster.
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WHY? Why do we need to stand up and support GM? It's a business, and they suck at it. If I screw up MY job, I get fired. It's not like GM hasn't fumbled almost every ball they've been handed for the last 20 years. No, I have NO love for the current GM, and I certainly don't owe them anything. I like certain specific models, but that's as far as it goes. I remember when the 4th gen came out, and all the car guys I knew blindly followed it. ..and don't get me wrong, it's a good car. Right now, most the guys in our local club are NOT fans of the new Camaro.
True, GM has had lousy times, but they are trying to fix things and hopefully those that don't want to see them fail and the US economy fail will support them. I can't think of any other cars from any other company I'd want to buy, that's for sure. I wont blindly turn my back on the company that produced my favorite cars for so many years. People that followed 4ths were mostly fans of their performance, they were not a popular car. The new Camaro has many, many fans. It's got great reviews and is a very good car. The Concept was the most well recieved GM concept in history and had the highest score of any GM style clinic ever. When people see them in person the reactions are pretty cool. I've taken non-Camaro people to see them in dealers and witnessed them switch over right in front of me. The car will be a success whether nit-pickers and negative people get on board or not. It's already smashed its sales forecast and they are getting lots of orders. There is a decent wait to get your car. Extra shifts are being added over the summer to handle the production. The aftermarket for them will be huge and is growing rapidly. For anyone who hasn't seen them in person, pictures do not do justice and you will probably be happy with what you see. That said, I still prefer my Third Gens.
Nah, I know what you're saying about all your points. We could debate the intangibles of what makes it an F Body all day and still get nowhere.
To sum up feeling on the Camaro. I feel like when it appeared no money was to be made, they killed the Camaro in 2002. The Mustang was still selling, but that's beside the point. Business is business, to heck with the GM Faithfull. But as stated, that's business. ...but when they see it was a mistake, and they wanted to make a NEW Camaro, they go balls out to make it sound like they're all about making the enthusiasts happy. They drum up all this hype all while patting themselves on the back. To quote Chris Rock, "You don't get credit for somthing you're SUPPOSED to do!" Ford didn't have this hype because they NEVER KILLED THE MUSTANG to begin with!!!!
...I dunno, I just feel a little betrayed by the whole thing.
...anyhow, they ARE good cars, regardless of opinion. ...and yes they ARE hugely popular, but I also think there are LOT of people out there like me who REALLY don't like it, for whatever reason.
I'd buy used GM cars all day long, but new? ...Silverado or Vette, that's about it.
I for one really, and I mean REALLY, don't give a flying flip about what anyone thinks in regard to what I drive or wear or where I live etc. In my opinion, when you react and respond to someone else's criticism you validate what they think of you. You prove them right. Ask yourself why someone else has to criticize another. The answer proves I'm right.
Respect everyone's personal choice and celebrate the fact that we all can make those choices. (at least for now)
MM
Other than my truck, since 1987, I have not driven any other car that a Thirdgen Camaro or Firebird. I love the styling, the handling, the relative ease of working on them . In short, I still haven't found a car that turns me on as much as these cars do.
My wife and I talked about some fun cars - Porsches, Corvettes, Jaguars, even Ferraris - but at the end of the day, for sheer fun and enjoyment of the car hobby, you can't beat a Thirdgen. So......yeah, we bought a 1988 GTA.
I hate to say it, but there's more then enough bad taste on this forum to more then make up for a lack of ******s. There are people doing things on this forum that would have been flamed until the person was banned or driven off the site in the past, but now they get "hey that's cool, tell me how I can retard my ride too!". The stereotypes are still healthy because idiots still buy these cars and trash them with tacky customization.
To a certain extent, I am inclined to agree with you Drew.
There seems to be two categories out there (excuse me while I put on my flamesuit) - those that truly love these cars, with all of their faults; and those that came to the Thirdgen by way of accident.
Doesn't matter which avenue you arrived by, I believe it is the passion that counts - and I'll leave it there.
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