History / RestorationGot a question about Third Gen (1982-1992) Camaro or Firebird history? Where can I find these original parts? What is this option or RPO code? Those questions, answers, and more!
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ive noticed on many GTA's i have seen around latley there is a plastic strip that is bolted along the rocker panel that looks kind of like an air dam. i was wondering what their purpose is for and which cars had them when new.
thanks,
Brian
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yea, i dont mean the air dam. the closest picture i could find is of this tta on ebay, if you look at the last few pics you will see a black plastic strip along the rockers. when i bought my car it had 30000 miles on it and was untouched and didnt have these. some i see do and some dont, just trying to figure out which cars got them from the factory and which didnt. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1989-...=p4506.c0.m245
Just a thought here. Is it possible that all GTAs and Trans Ams received these with this design of the GFX? While looking at a side view, the GFX are deeper at the rear than at the front. Could these have been put on to hide the under side painted flange? I'm not a Pontiac guy so I never noticed, but I can see that the flange might detract from the overall appearance.
My first thought seeing it on the TTA, was an actual PACE car, used on the track. Then you said it was on the GTA. I don't see it, even enlarging the pics as much as I can. Even over on the GTASourcePage.com, I've never seen those.
Maybe someone will see this thread bumped up & know the answer to it.
I have those, they are maybe 1 1/2" tall and angled outward slightly.
I assumed they were the actual side skirts designed to maintain low pressure under the car at speed.
The Body colored portion of the side molding is essentialy cosmetic with no aerodynamic effect, actual skirts are supposed to keep air from entering from the sides of the car into the low pressure area created by the front air dam.
At stock ride height I can only see them being moderately effective.
I have also seen them before and wondered what their purpose was. I'm not sure it was to hide the pinch weld, if it was, why did only some of the cars get them? Wouldn't Pontiac want all of them to look good? Personally, I feel that those little plastic strips were ugly and I would want to remove them. Maybe most original owners felt the same
Here's an interesting point; although I do not know the exact purpose of these deflectors.
My 2800 mile GTA has them and they face one way
My Aug 91 build 92 TA does not have them never been there, no sign of any bolts being turned
My Feb 92 build 92 TA has them but they face the other way from how they are on the GTA.
__________________ 1992 Trans Am "RARE 92" ----- Jamaica Yellow, L98, 147K, All Original CA car 1991 Trans Am GTA ------------*2,800 miles*--1st Place Stock, TA Nats 2009 1992 Trans Am "PMD 92" ------47K, Best of Show, ThirdGen Fest 2008 1989 Formula 350 "PMD 89" ....Sold.... Redline Performance Machines
You need to go back to Jim Chapperal and his experiments with gound effects. I think the most radical was the 2J with the side skirts and the suction fans. This is what I believe the GTA was trying to achieve - the effects of down force.
The interesting thing is that my wife was driving behind me when I bought my first GTA and I took the car up to 150 KM. She said she saw the car suck down and then go - ground effects or torque? - idk
But I think that is where the Pontiac engineers were heading.
Its on all the TA's and GTA's from 85-90 at the very least. I'm sure they were using it for downforce reasons.
No, they were NOT on ALL TAs & GTAs......
They were on NEITHER of my GTAs (87 & 89). I've NEVER seen them until this thread. Nor have I seen them on any pics on GTASourcePage.com. I've never even heard of them mentioned before this thread.
I'd say they probably fall into the "rare" category.
My 86 TA has them. Non-WS6 car, but has all the GFX options.
I like them because they sorta cover up my BMR SFCs. Since they stick sorta low...the air dams cover them up more.
Mine are sorta wavy... Not sure why. I guess age. I was going to remove them, but figured Ide leave them. I also had a chance to get a brand new set from the guy that I got the car from, but I declined. Sorta wishing I grabbed them now.
J.
__________________
ARE shortblock, Ross custom boost pistons, arp rod bolts, ARE ported oil pump,
MTI 2e 5.3L ported heads milled .030 with double springs,
228/224 113+1 Comp XE-R, Cloyes adjustable timing chain, LS6 valley cover,
fast 90mm intake, NW 90mm throttle body, SVO 30lb injectors, 85mm MAF,
ASP underdrive pulley, 160* t-stat, stainless LT headers 1.75" primaries
cool thank you for all the replys. you can mark my car into the catagory that never had them. now it would be cool to figure out why some got them and some did not
They were on NEITHER of my GTAs (87 & 89). I've NEVER seen them until this thread. Nor have I seen them on any pics on GTASourcePage.com. I've never even heard of them mentioned before this thread.
I'd say they probably fall into the "rare" category.
Did you buy those new?
I've had 5 of these. Every one of them had them. 85, 86, 87, 89, 89. Every TA and GTA I've bothered to look for them, they were there. So you can say NO all you want, does NOT make you right.
I've had 5 of these. Every one of them had them. 85, 86, 87, 89, 89. Every TA and GTA I've bothered to look for them, they were there. So you can say NO all you want, does NOT make you right.
No, not new but....
I was here before TGO was and these have NEVER been mentioned before this thread. So I AM RIGHT, in that at the very least...Nobody else has ever mentioned them on TGO, nor the Tufts.edu message board site, before TGO even existed.
I too want to chime in and say I found these on my 87 TA. never saw them before (had an 84 SC and 89 RS camaros) and was wondering what they were about. I can definitely see why they may have come off over the years, since they can get in the way of getting a jack under the car.
__________________
1987 Trans Am, work in progress
2008 Pontiac G8
Retired: 1984 Camaro "ZF" 2.8L, 1989 Camaro RS
Customer Service Manager, 1A Auto Parts
Just for STEPHEN, I looked through all my old factory brochures as well. In every one of them that the contrast is high enough, you can see the piece. Its barely visible in the 85, cant see in 86 (pic too dark), the 87 its obscured by grass, in 88 its clearly visible in 2 pictures, you can see it in the 89 on 4 cars and its plainly obvious in the centerfold of the 89 TTA brochure. I'm sure I can go look through some of my old car test rags and verify in every picture that has a shot low enough with enough contrast its visible as well but honestly its not worth the effort.
And there you go. I know people that have removed them. Why? They're near impossible to keep clean. They start to look like garbage. Some people paint them (I am 99% sure there is a post on this board about it, on a white car IIRC), and some take the 8 screws holding them on off the car and throw it away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen
I was here before TGO was and these have NEVER been mentioned before this thread. So I AM RIGHT, in that at the very least...Nobody else has ever mentioned them on TGO, nor the Tufts.edu message board site, before TGO even existed.
So what if they've never been mentioned. That means they DONT exist? Sorry but not knowing does not mean not existing... and CERTAINLY just because YOU have never seen a post about it, does NOT mean that post does NOT exist.
They also appeared on the stock Firebirds that had the GFX package as I have them on my 1989 Firebird. They are also present on my 1984 Trans Am as well as both of my GTAs.
I have them on my 89 GTA and i plan on painting them because they look really faded and old. I was gonna get rid of them but since it seems many people don't have them anymore i guess ill keep them.
I just wish mine werent so wavy. Of course, Im not really nice to them. I jamb my floor jack under and it hits them on the way. I might ditch them when its time to re-paint, unless I can straighten them out some.
I didnt really even know they existed until I got my 86. Then again, up until now, I havent really looked for them either. They dont mean much to me...having them or not isnt really a huge deal IMO.
I just wish mine werent so wavy. Of course, Im not really nice to them. I jamb my floor jack under and it hits them on the way. I might ditch them when its time to re-paint, unless I can straighten them out some.
I didnt really even know they existed until I got my 86. Then again, up until now, I havent really looked for them either. They dont mean much to me...having them or not isnt really a huge deal IMO.
J.
Mine were really "wavy" on the red car as well, I was trying to get new ones but one side was disco'd, so I restored mine. Quite easy I do dare say. I got 2 lengths of wood planks 6' long, clamps, and a heat gun. Once you heat the deflector with the heat gun it becomes were pliable, then you put it in between the pieces of wood and clamp them together till it cools. Result is perfectly straight pieces, better than factory because I have one NOS piece and it is wavier then my restored ones. Some cleaning afterwards and some son of a gun, and they look brand new.
Thanks for the tip RPM, I planned to fab some deeper ones up specificaly for track use too. If I ever do I'll be sure to post it.
I'm sure many have been taken off and or ripped off in the course of 17-27 years but I also dont doubt GM 'forgot" them on many cars also. It wouldnt be a unique case from the general.
Cool...Good tip RPM! I was actually thinking about doing something like that, but wasnt sure if it'd work. Glad to hear you had success with it. If I can get them straight again, and hit them with some paint when I re-paint, Ill probably re-attach them.
I think Im going to paint mine flat black when I do my paint. They are silver now, and stick out like a sore thumb. Ide like to keep them, if for nothing else to hide my SFCs, but have them be a little more understated.
Like I said, my only complaint is I have to jamb my jack under them. I have the lowest jack I could find, and it still hits those things on the way under. Ill have to see if maybe I can cut a jack relief into it so Im not twisting them and bending them all the time.
J.
__________________
ARE shortblock, Ross custom boost pistons, arp rod bolts, ARE ported oil pump,
MTI 2e 5.3L ported heads milled .030 with double springs,
228/224 113+1 Comp XE-R, Cloyes adjustable timing chain, LS6 valley cover,
fast 90mm intake, NW 90mm throttle body, SVO 30lb injectors, 85mm MAF,
ASP underdrive pulley, 160* t-stat, stainless LT headers 1.75" primaries
I think its one of those parts that doesnt really serve much purpose to the everyday person. So they get abused, and broken, and squished over bumps, and ultimatly yanked off. Since they appear to be nothing more than a decorative flimsy strip of plastic, they were probably tossed into the trash without giving a second thought back in the day. Personally...I like the look without them better. Im keeping mine, since they are there, but if i didnt already have them, I wouldnt be sourcing them out. That was probably what a lot of folks thought when the cars where new. They probably removed them, stashed them a away, and eventually ditched them.
THATS probably why you see cars, even near mint cars, without these strips. I dont doubt that there are a large number of cars that were supposed to have them.
My 87 GTA nor 89 GTA had them, nor do you see them in pics of GTAs, on GTASourcePage.com.
Kinda amazing how all the cars suddenly have them, but since day 1 of TGO, NOBODY has EVER mentioned them, until this thread.
actually, I DID mention about this subject back in 2005....
i don't know how to attach the link here but if you do a search and type in "Skirts"....i started that thread awhile ago, pondering what was the purpose of these "air deflectors"....
my gta has them too, although i took them off years ago because they kept being in the way when i had to air lift the vehicle...i still have them but now i will put them back on when i restore my baby...
SIMO is correct, if your car has rpo W62 aero package your car should be equipped with these deflectors as part of the package...
What i love about knowing if these pieces are for functionality purpose or not, is that the department x people at pontiac has a history of doing things like this and weather it was for racing applications or for the street it's still a nice concept in theory!....Too bad they couldn't make the hood lovers and vents function like the 69 ta did...(stock wise that is)
Last edited by RockinGTA89; 10-03-2009 at 05:54 PM.
actually, I DID mention about this subject back in 2005....
i don't know how to attach the link here but if you do a search and type in "Skirts"....i started that thread awhile ago, pondering what was the purpose of these "air deflectors"....
my gta has them too, although i took them off years ago because they kept being in the way when i had to air lift the vehicle...i still have them but now i will put them back on when i restore my baby...
SIMO is correct, if your car has rpo W62 aero package your car should be equipped with these deflectors as part of the package...
What i love about knowing if these pieces are for functionality purpose or not, is that the department x people at pontiac has a history of doing things like this and weather it was for racing applications or for the street it's still a nice concept in theory!....Too bad they couldn't make the hood lovers and vents function like the 69 ta did...(stock wise that is)
Since W62 wasn't standard under the Y84. that would explain why neither of my GTAs had it.
Ok, but only ONE post in all of TGOs life? About underbody skirts. And on the Regional board? No wonder so little is known about them! Lots of people calling the ground fx skirts, buts it.
I'm curious if this part was installed at certain assembly plants and not others. Or if it was something like the front air dam that IIRC was installed at the dealer. Maybe some were never installed. :dunno:
My 87 GTA nor 89 GTA had them, nor do you see them in pics of GTAs, on GTASourcePage.com.
Kinda amazing how all the cars suddenly have them, but since day 1 of TGO, NOBODY has EVER mentioned them, until this thread.
Just because nobody mentions them much doesn't mean they don't exist. They are basically small insignificant pieces that most people never even notice. However, EVERY original, untouched 85-90 Trans Am/GTA I've ever seen has had them and that includes all the cars I've seen back when these were new.
I've also seen plenty of cars without them but every one of them has shown signs of them being there in the past.
Just because nobody mentions them much doesn't mean they don't exist. They are basically small insignificant pieces that most people never even notice.
It's obvious from this thread that they get in the way and don't really serve much of a purpose so they are getting removed. There's no reason it would have been any different when the cars were new. I'll bet a lot of them were removed the first time the owner went to throw a jack under the car to rotate the tires... and then found out the front and rear wheels are different, lol.
Just because nobody mentions them much doesn't mean they don't exist. They are basically small insignificant pieces that most people never even notice. However, EVERY original, untouched 85-90 Trans Am/GTA I've ever seen has had them and that includes all the cars I've seen back when these were new.
I've also seen plenty of cars without them but every one of them has shown signs of them being there in the past.
I never, ever said they do not exist. NEVER. Only that they ARE rare. Funny how a bunch of people suddenly have them, yet nobody EVER (1 thread) mentioned them before now?
Funny how you say "EVERY original, untouched 85-90 Trans Am/GTA" had one, but nowhere on GTASourcePage does it ever even mention them on GTAs, nor if there even any listing of the RPO of them, anywhere on GTASourcePage.com either.
Not even on the dealership TTA on its side on mattresses, did I see those. Anybody know where that pic is, off hand?
No RPO listing....No thread listing....Nothing.
Obviously they do exist, I'll say that much. But try & for any mention of them. You'll find TWO threads on them & this is one of the threads. You telling me everybody has just looked..."Hmmm? Oh well" Nobody has ever asked what they are? No mention of "What the hell are these things????'
You say they were on EVERY.....No they weren't. Not EVERY one, or this wouldn't be a surprise to many people.
I won't go into just how far back me & TGO go. Let's just say...LONG. The member dates aren't right, because of a MAJOR server crash in '99. I'm NOT trying to act like some kind of "know it all". Far from it. Just surprising that I've never heard of them & there has only been % posts about them, in 1 REGIONAL board thread.
I never, ever said they do not exist. NEVER. Only that they ARE rare. Funny how a bunch of people suddenly have them, yet nobody EVER (1 thread) mentioned them before now?
Funny how you say "EVERY original, untouched 85-90 Trans Am/GTA" had one, but nowhere on GTASourcePage does it ever even mention them on GTAs, nor if there even any listing of the RPO of them, anywhere on GTASourcePage.com either.
Not even on the dealership TTA on its side on mattresses, did I see those. Anybody know where that pic is, off hand?
No RPO listing....No thread listing....Nothing.
Obviously they do exist, I'll say that much. But try & for any mention of them. You'll find TWO threads on them & this is one of the threads. You telling me everybody has just looked..."Hmmm? Oh well" Nobody has ever asked what they are? No mention of "What the hell are these things????'
You say they were on EVERY.....No they weren't. Not EVERY one, or this wouldn't be a surprise to many people.
I won't go into just how far back me & TGO go. Let's just say...LONG. The member dates aren't right, because of a MAJOR server crash in '99. I'm NOT trying to act like some kind of "know it all". Far from it. Just surprising that I've never heard of them & there has only been % posts about them, in 1 REGIONAL board thread.
Just because you've been on TGO from the beginning of time doesn't mean a thing. I'm sure there's other parts on these cars that have never been mentioned either. Sure, there's tons of people on here who's cars have had multiple owners before them so those people wouldn't even know what may have been taken off the car at some point. Also, there doesn't need to be an RPO for them because they are part of the ground effects package.
To say they are "rare" is an absolutely absurd statement when every person who has posted here with an "untouched" 85-90 car has stated their car DOES have them. The few original owners who have posted here have all stated that their car came with them. Every one of these cars I saw new on the dealer lots had them and all the photos I've seen from when these cars were new has shown them in place.
The fact is that the evidence points to ALL 85-90 cars having them from the factory.
Just because you've been on TGO from the beginning of time doesn't mean a thing. I'm sure there's other parts on these cars that have never been mentioned either. Sure, there's tons of people on here who's cars have had multiple owners before them so those people wouldn't even know what may have been taken off the car at some point. Also, there doesn't need to be an RPO for them because they are part of the ground effects package.
To say they are "rare" is an absolutely absurd statement when every person who has posted here with an "untouched" 85-90 car has stated their car DOES have them. The few original owners who have posted here have all stated that their car came with them. Every one of these cars I saw new on the dealer lots had them and all the photos I've seen from when these cars were new has shown them in place.
The fact is that the evidence points to ALL 85-90 cars having them from the factory.
Whatever. 1 single thread out of MILLIONS doesn't make something common. You won't listen to truth, so I'm done. Believe what you wanna believe. I don't care. Just stop telling everyone else false information.
I can't believe ya'll have gotten so worked up over my measly little post!
Whatever. 1 single thread out of MILLIONS doesn't make something common. You won't listen to truth, so I'm done. Believe what you wanna believe. I don't care. Just stop telling everyone else false information.
I can't believe ya'll have gotten so worked up over my measly little post!
One single thread doesn't make it common but lots of people along with EVERY original owner saying their car came with them does. You are the one spreading the "false information". You are trying to tell people these are a "rare" option when all signs point to ALL 85-90 cars coming with them from the factory.
One single thread doesn't make it common but lots of people along with EVERY original owner saying their car came with them does. You are the one spreading the "false information". You are trying to tell people these are a "rare" option when all signs point to ALL 85-90 cars coming with them from the factory.
1 SINGLE thread & you are ready to confirm something as undeniable FACT? And YOU have personally spoken with EVERY SINGLE original oener, here on TGO?
Rare/Uncommon/Unusual....I don' WHAT you call it, it amounts to the same thing.
We can argue this all night & day. I don't care. The facts still remain.
This is the FIRST thread to have ever have multiple people say they have/had it, and your ready to classify at as undeniable proof.
This SINGLE thread is the ONLY source of "facts" that it was "normal". I still maintain that it is UNUSUAL & quite possibly the W65 RPO code item. See if you can find out how many W65s were made.....(or whatever the code was....i don't care enough to look bac through this thread to find it)
I'm just royally amused that you are putting so much effort into arguing with me!
The only reason I'm putting any effort into this is because I want people to know the facts. There is SO much bad information about these cars and the last thing we need is more bad info to lead people to believe they have some "rare" option. All I want is for people to know the truth. That's what this site is for, the educate people about these cars and that's what I'm trying to do.
To say these parts are "rare, uncommon, or unusual" is BAD INFORMATION, plain and simple. All you're going to do is lead people to believe they have some "rare" option when, in fact, ALL signs point to all 85-90 cars having them.
This thread has nothing to do with why I believe that all cars had them. I've know these parts existed since the cars were new and EVERY new car and every GM press photo has shown them in place. THAT'S why I believe that all cars had them.
I'm just royally amused that you consider a part as common as these "rare"
The only reason I'm putting any effort into this is because I want people to know the facts. There is SO much bad information about these cars and the last thing we need is more bad info to lead people to believe they have some "rare" option. All I want is for people to know the truth. That's what this site is for, the educate people about these cars and that's what I'm trying to do.
To say these parts are "rare, uncommon, or unusual" is BAD INFORMATION, plain and simple. All you're going to do is lead people to believe they have some "rare" option when, in fact, ALL signs point to all 85-90 cars having them.
This thread has nothing to do with why I believe that all cars had them. I've know these parts existed since the cars were new and EVERY new car and every GM press photo has shown them in place. THAT'S why I believe that all cars had them.
I'm just royally amused that you consider a part as common as these "rare"
1 single thread & you are ready to call the common....Amusing.
How does ONE SINGLE THREAD, point to the being common? And on ALL 85-90s?
Show us some of these press photos. I've never seen them.
1 single thread & you are ready to call the common....Amusing.
How does ONE SINGLE THREAD, point to the being common? And on ALL 85-90s?
Show us some of these press photos. I've never seen them.
Like I said earlier I don't need this thread to convince me these are common. I just though it was common knowledge but I guess not. However, this thread should be proof that they are. Nearly EVERY person who has responded to this thread has stated that their car has them. Even the person who started this thread said he's seen "many GTAs" with them lately and wondered what they were for.
If they are such a "rare" part why are you the only person in this thread that has never noticed them?
Lots of people calling the ground fx skirts, buts it. 
It's obvious from this thread that they get in the way and don't really serve much of a purpose so they are getting removed. There's no reason it would have been any different when the cars were new. I'll bet a lot of them were removed the first time the owner went to throw a jack under the car to rotate the tires... and then found out the front and rear wheels are different, lol. 
for any mention of them. You'll find TWO threads on them & this is one of the threads. You telling me everybody has just looked..."Hmmm? Oh well" Nobody has ever asked what they are? No mention of "What the hell are these things????'
