InteriorDiscussion about interior restoration, repairs, and modification.
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loooks like some great fab work. while im not a fan of the blue insert, its not my car.
i would have added some flare around the speaker. maybe incorporated the speaker pod from the 4th gen panel. its just so plane jane in that area.
id like to see more on the progress. hood latch looks like cake. bend up a piece of metal or weld a bracket and just move the hood latch? hard to tell by a pic. i havent went down this road.
I started this morning, so what you see is what I've got, those pictures were taken at about 4:30 central time. I'm going to try the 4th gen release, the passenger side kick panel is going to take a little more work I think, but so far, it hasn't been hard at all, just trimming stuff to fit.
the sail panels are requiring me to get out a soldering iron and do a little "welding".
some guideness please. the diagram for the insturment cluster i got shows 3 dash lights from the 3rd gen ( black cluster 2,11,12) grey wires connecting to 1 grey wire on the 4th gen, is that right? on top of that it doesn't say where the grey wire is on 4th gen clusster (just says not c13), so just making sure c3 was the right one. was hard to tell its color its a bit faided.
Last edited by Draon; 03-01-2010 at 03:53 PM.
Reason: misspelled
ok, i've almost got my insturment cluster wired, just have a few wires on the clear connector that don't go anywhere.
3rd gen clear connector:
3: yellow (it seems to trace to radio, not sure though)
5: blue x2 (unable to trace or find refference to)
now on the 4th gen cluster these are the wires not connected to anything yet, i know a lot of them wont be but trying to figure what they are and if any corresponed to the ones from 3rd gen not connected yet.
row "C":
8: Brown and white (ses)
13: Grey (security)
16: Brown (airbag)
row "D":
6: light green (unknown)
11:yellow w/ blak strip (unknown)
12:brown (unknown)
16:darkish blue (unknown)
i also have from the clear connector on 3rd gen slot 14 brown wire (check engine), the schimatics i got say brown and white wire but not "C8" from 4th gen. problem is "C8" is the only brown and white wire on 4th gen cluster. so some help would be greatly appreciated.
ok so i guess i've got it somewhat cleared up, the yellow wire definetly runs to my radio, which is odd but ok. and the light blue wires in slot5 on the 3rd gen clear connecter has one that runs to a black box, (i'm assumming thats my cruse control) and the other part of the light blue wire seems to go down the stering colum, just don't know where that goes. but i still haven't figured out where the dam check engine wire connects to on the 4th gen connecter. the 4th gen connector is from a 94 camaro. i'm at a loss.
TPI i checked your schematics out, they were a little bit of help. was a little confused when you saild "c1-c2......." then i realized c1 was connetor 1 and c2 was the slot on that connector. but it still didn't help with the check engine wire. think i'm just gonna connect it to the ses (4th gen c8) wire.
Last edited by Draon; 03-02-2010 at 07:42 PM.
Reason: forgot to add
ok so i guess i've got it somewhat cleared up, the yellow wire definetly runs to my radio, which is odd but ok. and the light blue wires in slot5 on the 3rd gen clear connecter has one that runs to a black box, (i'm assumming thats my cruse control) and the other part of the light blue wire seems to go down the stering colum, just don't know where that goes. but i still haven't figured out where the dam check engine wire connects to on the 4th gen connecter. the 4th gen connector is from a 94 camaro. i'm at a loss.
yellow wire should be hot 12v (not hot during cranking) radio wire.
the light blue wire will be the left signal.
check engine wire should be brown on the 4th gen connector. may have a white stripe depending on the year????
ok thank, i just connected it to the brown ses wire on the 4th gen, and left the yellow wire connected and light blue wire connected to the 3rd gen clear connector. but that light blue wire isn't for turn signal, i had already connected it and tested it. it runs down the stearing collume and then the 2nd light blue wire (thats in the same slot on the clear connetor as the other light blue) runs to this black box. heres a pic of it, any ideas?
also anyone tell me what that yellow box is on the back of my old insturment cluster? i know it connects to the tach and runs to the spedo, but no i dea what it is
on another note i tested my wiring up of my insturment cluster, my turn signals work, but none of my gauges are working. they all just sit there flatlined . was thinking that just maybe the insturment cluster i got is broken, but not sure. any suggestions, toughts, imput, corrections?
the light blue that goes to the black box will be your turn signal.
thats the "convenience center"
it houses hazard and turn flashers.
check it. should be it.
hey TPI, just breezzed through one of the other posts. i know its been a few years, but did you ever get that yellow box to work? if so could ya let me know?
i feel like an idiot now. couldn't figure out why none of my gauges were working on. spent 3 days checking all my connections and reduing the wiring, only to realize my gauge fuse was blown. oh well now everythings working, except the oil pressure pegs and the coolent temp doesn't move. of course the "check gauges" idiot light is on so something could be wrong with the gauges and not my wiring. well hopefully finish everything today, just got to drill some holes and mount.
now if someone can give me some help with getting the speedo to work that would be another plus. it comes off the tit on the cluster, but stays at zero when driving. i have the dakota digital adapter, SGI-5, but need to know how to wire it. it didn't come with wires, was it suppose to? i also have the vss that was behind my olk insturment cluster, and confused how that gets wired in. it has red, black and gree wires which wire is which? also my odometer and tripometer don't work, but assuming they are hooked up to the speedo and will work when that does. and still got the same problem with the other 2 gauges that i previously mentioned.
Hey I know no-one's talked about door panels on this thread for a while but hopefully someone has some insight for me.
I just finished the 4th gen dash swap in my car ('My 01 interior swap' thread) and the door panels are next but what I'm wondering is, do I need to trim the top front corner of the panels even with the 4th gen dash? I though the intereference was with the shape of the 3rd gen dash...? Or is it the pillar itself?
I've looked at a bunch of install pics and I saw in one where the panels were trimmed with a 4th gen dash and I'm hoping it was done previous to the dash install. I've got black 'leather' panels and I'm really hoping I don't have to do any visible cutting.
Thanks
Last edited by NArtissimus; 04-06-2010 at 07:02 PM.
if i had to do it over again, i would cut up the 4th gen panel and fiberglass it or glue it to a 3rd gen board. take it to an upholstry shop and have them shape it a bit with some foam and have it covered. 4th gen panels are a tremendous amount of work to look as good as they can, and some purists will still tell you they dont look good enough.
i did the best job i possibly could, but you have to hack the door to no extent for them to have a good fitment.
if i had to do it over again, i would cut up the 4th gen panel and fiberglass it or glue it to a 3rd gen board. take it to an upholstry shop and have them shape it a bit with some foam and have it covered. 4th gen panels are a tremendous amount of work to look as good as they can, and some purists will still tell you they dont look good enough.
i did the best job i possibly could, but you have to hack the door to no extent for them to have a good fitment.
Probably the way I'm going to do it, I plan to make the panel fit the door, not the door fit the panel if that makes sense.
if i had to do it over again, i would cut up the 4th gen panel and fiberglass it or glue it to a 3rd gen board. take it to an upholstry shop and have them shape it a bit with some foam and have it covered. 4th gen panels are a tremendous amount of work to look as good as they can, and some purists will still tell you they dont look good enough.
i did the best job i possibly could, but you have to hack the door to no extent for them to have a good fitment.
Hey thanks for your input, but I'm still not sure if the corner needs to be trimmed though. I guess I'll find out once I'm there. Do you have any pictures of your progress, or a thread?
I think my goal of this is to make the panels work on a budget (by that I mean spending no money other than buying the panels) and make them look as good as they can, they'll never be perfect because they weren't designed to be. Just like the dash never fits perfect, but to me it's as good as it'll ever be. IMO some trimming and massaging of the door to keep the panel complete is better than completely recreating the panels myself or paying a shop to do it, but each to their own. If I spent the money on custom door panels I probably would not be crafting 4th gen panels in anyways but make completely custom ones,... don't know.
Heh we're not really working on a cars that are going to be worth a fortune in the future so why worry about the small details. It's all for fun and to be a bit different. Who cares about the "purists" opinion, there's nothing 'pure' about making factory panels from one model fit another that were never designed for it. It would be different if my fully custom made panels fit like crap, then I'd take that criticism.
Probably the way I'm going to do it, I plan to make the panel fit the door, not the door fit the panel if that makes sense.
Hey I like your Complete interior project here. I'm really interested how it turns out. I had the same idea when I got my parts car and saw the complete black interior but I just wasn't sure. I still got all the parts so your outcome might determine what I'll do with them.
Hey thanks for your input, but I'm still not sure if the corner needs to be trimmed though. I guess I'll find out once I'm there. Do you have any pictures of your progress, or a thread?
it doesn't even fit without a dash in the car, you have to trim the top front corner, I can take pics if you want.
Hey thanks for your input, but I'm still not sure if the corner needs to be trimmed though. I guess I'll find out once I'm there. Do you have any pictures of your progress, or a thread?
I think my goal of this is to make the panels work on a budget (by that I mean spending no money other than buying the panels) and make them look as good as they can, they'll never be perfect because they weren't designed to be. Just like the dash never fits perfect, but to me it's as good as it'll ever be. IMO some trimming and massaging of the door to keep the panel complete is better than completely recreating the panels myself or paying a shop to do it, but each to their own. If I spent the money on custom door panels I probably would not be crafting 4th gen panels in anyways but make completely custom ones,... don't know.
Heh we're not really working on a cars that are going to be worth a fortune in the future so why worry about the small details. It's all for fun and to be a bit different. Who cares about the "purists" opinion, there's nothing 'pure' about making factory panels from one model fit another that were never designed for it. It would be different if my fully custom made panels fit like crap, then I'd take that criticism.
i dont know about your comment on the dash. mine is flawless. i do all my own work, but when it comes to upholstery, i would take it to a trim shop. i want my stuff perfect, so id do what i need to to get it right. id rough it in, then have them clean it up and cover it. im not worried about the purists. i have my own style, but they are out there.
here is a thread. i should have took more pics when i was working, but i was more aggrevated at trying to get them to fit rather than take pictures. http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/in...-gen-door.html (started on 4th gen door panels...mmmmm)
i dont know about your comment on the dash. mine is flawless. i do all my own work, but when it comes to upholstery, i would take it to a trim shop. i want my stuff perfect, so id do what i need to to get it right. id rough it in, then have them clean it up and cover it. im not worried about the purists. i have my own style, but they are out there.
here is a thread. i should have took more pics when i was working, but i was more aggrevated at trying to get them to fit rather than take pictures. http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/in...-gen-door.html (started on 4th gen door panels...mmmmm)
Hey that's your car I've seen in the pics. I've been trying to find info on your swap. I knew I'd seen that thread before, I don't know how I missed it.
I agree with pretty well everything you said in your reply. But did you have a professional recover you panels? They are the same panels I have and they don't look like they were touched, and I think they look awesome. I'd be very happy with that kind of outcome for mine. The thing I really like is that the back edge (on the d-side anyways) hasn't been cut from what I can see, and I'd like to see what the front top corner looks like.
To clarify the dash comment, Yes the dash does fit very nicely from the outside once it is in and covered up, mine does too. But what I'm referreing to by it not fitting perfectly is the fact that once of you look on the back side at the heating ducts and brackets it usually isn't too pretty. Definitely doesn't look like a factory install. Most people's installs look like hamburger, and mine does too. Like I said before we're trying to make parts work that aren't supposed to fit, and look good at the same time. They are not custom fitted parts for our application and that's what bugs me about people complaining.
The 4thgen panels are a trashy fit no matter what way you massage them. Many have been down this road including myself. So far I have seen one proper complete factory looking setup done. And they were heavily modified and redone very well. I have the link I need to dig it up but it is on here and if I remember correctly there was no post but it was in a online profile. No matter what anyone told you there is no way to even get them in looking 90% factory just by trimming and massaging. Even if your willing to hack your doors and body hammer your chassis to get these to fit "ok" it's still not worth it. The panels themselves just like most of what GM put out interior wise at the time which means cheap bottom of the barrel, they rank with Cavalier quality. For the time and butcher job your going to have to do you would be far better off doing some cool custom stuff with the factory door panels.
Here's the link , Kudo's goes to this TGO forum member
The 4thgen panels are a trashy fit no matter what way you massage them. Many have been down this road including myself. So far I have seen one proper complete factory looking setup done. And they were heavily modified and redone very well. I have the link I need to dig it up but it is on here and if I remember correctly there was no post but it was in a online profile. No matter what anyone told you there is no way to even get them in looking 90% factory just by trimming and massaging. Even if your willing to hack your doors and body hammer your chassis to get these to fit "ok" it's still not worth it. The panels themselves just like most of what GM put out interior wise at the time which means cheap bottom of the barrel, they rank with Cavalier quality. For the time and butcher job your going to have to do you would be far better off doing some cool custom stuff with the factory door panels.
Here's the link , Kudo's goes to this TGO forum member
That's nicely done. Sure like the wheels and exhaust. Too bad there's isn't more info on the panels. I can definitely see them being laid on a board and rewrapped. I do still like the 'cheap Cavalier' panels on Stage20's car thou.
We'll see how it goes, there's no point in arguing the fit. i guess I'm not going to get away from trimming the corner thou. Atleast I know what I'm up against.
very nice swap. did the kick panels too. something i have been putting off because i know they are short at the end.
such a clean setup, and the car has the wrong color upper console. im sure it doesnt look that bad, but the flash can be killer on a 4th gen interior.
i still disagree on the 4th gen door panels. it is NOT worth the hassle to make a factory panel fit, i would go 4th gen armrest and door handle on a 3rd gen board, but mine look way better than 90% quality.
the only issues ive had with mine is the contact cement let go on the passenger side upper door seal where it meets the door panel and its layed over right now. been racing and working so much i havent had a chance to fix it.
over a year of tugging on the door panel getting in and out with a rollbar in the car and they are just as tight as the day i put them on.
pita. almost doen.. this is just temporary placement ill be looking for darker panels.
anyways anyone install some type of speaker in the panel down by the corner. if so what an reasonable size that fits in there without getting in the way of the window motor?
Looks good from here. Do you have more pics of the panel and the door?
I was going to mount some 4" speakers in the doors. I did a littlebit of early measurements and that's what I came up with, don't think the 5 1/4's would clear iirc. Didnt' spend too much on time thou as this part of the project has been put aside for a bit. I think definitely think using something in the doors with an adapter plate along with some kick pods would fill in the front end.
dang motor sure is close. i dont know what will fit in there.
ive been dealing with rear speakers only. doesnt sound to bad, but its not something an audiophile would approve of.
i have thought of making a bracket off the firewall and mounting a single center channel or a pair of speakers in the defrost since i dont have a heater. you could really get creative and put them in the a/c vents too.
just ideas.
I had those door panels in my car. I made a small 1" MDF 'pod' to fit in that spot then mounted 5.25" pioneers in the pod use the stock speaker grill to draw it out then put a 1/4 Radius all the way around on the face then wrap in material. I used felt easily done. 1" will give you enough space to distance the speaker away from the power window motor for perfect clearance. Got some closeups yet of those door panels and how good they fit?
Last edited by The_Wraith; 09-14-2010 at 07:49 PM.
dang motor sure is close. i dont know what will fit in there.
ive been dealing with rear speakers only. doesnt sound to bad, but its not something an audiophile would approve of.
i have thought of making a bracket off the firewall and mounting a single center channel or a pair of speakers in the defrost since i dont have a heater. you could really get creative and put them in the a/c vents too.
just ideas.
yea it is im attempting to add something in there though maybe a 3.5 inch spearker. lol thats a good idea i always though of adding tweeters inside my air vents but im not sure if it would interfeere with the ac lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orinackra
looks great so far TPI. Can't wait to see the final outcome. How's your fit and finish compared to the rest of us swappers?
fitment is good. the corners of my dash pad vibrate a bit when im on the freeway i hadve to find a way to cover up the corners or add in the 4th gen pillars . not sure what i wanna do but talking bout tweeters a fill in with a tweeter pod on each corner would be cool.
as for the door panels they look good. its the early pre 99 chorcoal panels that i picked up for 40$ so im still messing with them. the driver side is on and i can slightly see a gap on the lower area but hey they look a lot better than my old panels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Wraith
Got some closeups yet of those door panels and how good they fit?
i don't have any more pics at the moment as soon as i get my day off ill be getting them set right
Quote:
Originally Posted by switchingsides
when you did the dash swap did you have to change out your center console cuz it didnt fit? or did you do that for looks too
yes when i did my ls1 swap i got a 02 ebony dash and center console.
tough to say. i dont know anyone that has the stock dash and newer panels.
a 4th gen dash and any 3rd gen panel work great.
the protruding part of the front of the panel may interfere with the stock 3rd gen dash pad that hangs over. i cannot say.
why only do the 4th gen door panels? thats the hardest fitment of anything from the other model.
i would start with console and work your way up.
a step closer i need to close up the gap against the edge of the door. i managed to fit some 3.5 inch speakers inside in there. pretty cool it was a tight fit. i wrapped up the window motor with some high temp wrap that is similar to dynamat to avoid any metal to metal contact with the speaker. it was a tight fit!
now i have to adjust and cut the length of the rod for the lock rod. im looking for both window switches which i plan on installing within time. then get started on the other side. and hopefully score on deal of ebony panels to switch to
any pics of the metal? how much did you hack? haha.
ebony panels are so hard to find in good shape.
id like to have a back up pair for when mine seperate or the leather wrinkles.
they are perfect right now, but i know they wont last forever.
ill figure something out when the time comes.
any pics of the metal? how much did you hack? haha.
ebony panels are so hard to find in good shape.
id like to have a back up pair for when mine seperate or the leather wrinkles.
they are perfect right now, but i know they wont last forever.
ill figure something out when the time comes.
a bit up top some little rectangles for the panels. a bit of cutting for the handles and a few inches for the speakers lol i might get started on the passenger side tmrw. so ill try to get some pics. *btw i also trimmed a bit of plastic material on the edges of the 4th gen panels ill have to smoothen them they were getting a bit stuck while opening the door
No closeups? whats with everyone posting 'selective' shots only. It's no secret they look good from a distance or in a selected pic but I and im sure others want to see what people have accomplished in the not so nice area's. If you can take pics from that angle you have the time to take pics from any angle.
Let's start this up again. Will a 97 cluster work in a 98-up dash? I've read that the 97's are the way to go as far as compatability. I have a 92 camaro rs 5.0L automatic bone stock and want to install the newer dash but the older digital odometer cluster. This car shoud have vss but i'm not sure. It's not cable driven so it should be. Will the tach/spedometer work or will i need the converter? Has anyone attempted to install the old HVAC controls back onto the new dash or is that a stupid question? I'm willing to do it if it is an easier install than the new controls. The more I see these coversions, the more I want to do it. Is there even an older style cluster with the digital odometer or have I lost my mind? If there isn't, I still want the older cluster. I don't know why, I think its just because it has a "slightly newer" look than the 92 cluster. New but not too new, a little nostalgic. Any help goes a million miles.
PONTIAC 4 LIFE 
. was thinking that just maybe the insturment cluster i got is broken, but not sure. any suggestions, toughts, imput, corrections? 
. oh well now everythings working, except the oil pressure pegs and the coolent temp doesn't move. of course the "check gauges" idiot light is on so something could be wrong with the gauges and not my wiring. well hopefully finish everything today, just got to drill some holes and mount. 
