I plan on swapping my front seat belts to the 4th gen front seatbelts because my passenger seatbelt is junk and I don't like seeing a giant hunk of plastic next to the seat everytime I open the door. Yeah... I could solve this problem by jumping through the window all the time, but what if it's raining and I leave it closed? Anyway, I want black seatbelts but all I can find are the ebony belts. I was told the 4th gens didn't get black seatbelts until 2000... is this correct? My other question is about the retractor. I've read that it is bigger then re stock 3rd gen one and that it will push the headliner down a little. Is this noticable or does it look bad? Granted I'm not looking in my car now, but would this interfer with head room? I'm 6'3" and have to fit in my car with a helmet on. I can't remember if the seat belt retractor is behind my head when I'm sitting in the car or if it is more above... Mike

"Ebony" is the black for the 4th gen - the dark grey is called "Charcoal". 4th gens had to get fancy schmancy color scheme names - a sign of the times I guess. The one difference I know of is that 4th gen belts do not have a retractor at the floor, so you'll have to mod the sill plate at the door to accomodate the solid floor end.

I saw someone om TGO did an excellent job by using an extra sill plate and making a piece to cover the large hole in the original:

So ebony IS black?

Or instead of piecing them together you could just use the door sills from an 82 Camaro. Then it would be factory.

I'm still wondering about the headliner...

Yes, EBONY is Black. I have a 1997 Z28 - most of the interior is Charcoal (real dark grey, almost black), and so I thought it was black, and I ordered Ebony, and it wasn't the same as my dark grey, it was truly black.

Yes, the 1982/1983 door sill plates will not have the notch cut out like the later years as those cars didn't have retractors at the floor either. Not sure how easy they are to find though, but it's worth a look, and at least you can piece together as in that photo if nothing else.

Have no clue on the headliner issue - let us know here when you find out (because I'm going to have to do the swap myself here soon).

I've done the swap with front belts from a 93' camaro. The only major difference was the lower retractor and for that I got door sills from an 82' off ebay. The retractor in the headliner was the same as the 3rd gen one it bolted into the same holes and caused no issues w/ the headliner. There is a difference on the clip that goes to the headliner the 4th gen one doesn't have the extra plastic that goes behind the sail panel (the 4th gen only has the part that is circled in this picture.)

Thanks for the color info.

I will be picking up the correct zoo sills sometime next week.

I knew they bolted in using the same holes, but I thought that since the retractor would be retracting more material that it would be slightly bigger. Maybe I'm wrong. So what did you do to solve the isseie with the plastic trim ring in the headliner? Did you use the third or fourth gen one? Isn't there a slit in the headliner that the longer third gen piece covers up meaning we still have to use the third gen part?

I kept the 4th gen clip on, you could probably cut the third gen ones off the old belts to make them work and look right with a little bit of work but mine were already broken so I didn't try. Yes there is a slit that is no longer covered up but I will either redo the headliner to correct it (the slit was need because of the lower retractor, with that gone its no longer necessary) or get some piece of plastic color match it and velcro it on there. Right now its not bothering me so I left it alone.

Do you think the third gen piece would still work? I'm really picky about the fit and finish when it comes to stuff like this...

it should i think the only difference between the two are the tails the third gen ones have if you don't want to hack up the ones you have they sell them on ebay you could always buy one and give it a shot. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/82-92...Q5fAccessories

I actually like the way the 4th gen belts finish the headliner area off. I HATE the way that little plastic tab covers the slit in the headliner on the thirdgen. You dont need this slit with the 4th gen belts, because the lower point can just slide through the hole. It does not push the headliner down any...they fit perfect.

With a little creativity, or 82 sill plates, you can make the bottom part look great.

J.

Yeah, the sill plates with the slits for a cloth belt are 1982 only. For the top area, I used just the 4th gen trim piece. I also recovered my headliner at the same time and didn't cut the slit that is covered in the 3rd gens. The upper retractor is the same size for 3rd and 4th generations, so the fit is perfect.

not sure what you're doing with the rear belts but if it's the 87 listed in your profile it only has lap belts like my 88. I pulled recievers from late 90's early 2000's cavalier to match my front belts. I'm not sure how much of a stickler you are for things matching but this did the trick for me. These recievers were the same length as the stock ones and same button style.

Thanks for the good news about the retractor size. Now I've for a new question... how do you remove the headliner without damaging it? You have to remove the A-pillar plastic and that rear overhead hatch plastic, but what else? Are there any hidden clips I should be aware of? My headliner is in like new condition so I don't want to damage it just to change seat belts.

I plan on taking out the rear seats and seat belts which is why I only need to find the front belts. It seems that people only want to sell them as a set of four... they won't sell just the fronts.

You need to remove the dome light too. Pop the translucent cover off and there are two studs that are screwed into the roof. Unscrew those and the assembly will drop down. Remove both of your sun visors. The headliner will be squished and sticking to the roof where the sun visors mount. very carefully separate the headliner from the roof by sliding something thin in betweet them so it doesn't tear. The last thing holding it in are two plastic clips that are located just above the rearview mirror. These are hell to remove without either snapping the plastic clip or tearing the metal mount right out of the fiberboard headliner. Good luck with those!

It would probably be best to remove the headliner completely to change out the belts so you don't break it because it is very fragile. BUT when I did mine I just removed the rear trim (between the headliner and hatch) the sail panels and the black trim on the upper part of the rear door jamb. I was then able to access the bolts to take out the belts. I propped up the loose part of the headliner so it would not bend or break. It is however very easy to break this way. My car has T Tops so it wasn't really in the way. If you do go this route be very careful not to beat up the headliner too much with the handle of your socket wrench. If you are planning on recovering your headliner at the same time take the extra step and remove the headliner completely using JeremyNYR's method .

My headliner is in perfect condition, but I think it is still the 22 year old stock headliner. I'll probably just remove it completely so I don't risk putting a big crease in it.

Do you really have to remove the sail panels? I have a overhead counsel so it will be a little different then that but I've taken it out before so that's no big deal. Where exactly are these clips in the headliner? Can I feel them through the headliner? So I just stick a putty knife or something similar under there and gently pry the headliner away from the roof?

I've never completely removed my headliner but it is necessary to take off the sail panels to drop the rear section of it. Here's a link to a write up from the tech articles on the main page that has details on removing as well as repairing the entire headliner. http://www.thirdgen.org/headlinerrepair

oh yeah, i forgot about the sail panels having to be removed. Those fragile front clips are probably about 10 inches apart from eachother and centered. Each one would roughly line up with the edge of the rearview mirror. They have to be squeezed from front to back to release. Don't be upset if they break. They're easy to replace (dealer part) and the alternative of ripping the mount out of the fiberboard is a lot more work. I've had to deal with both situations.

hey racing geek, I have a set of belts out of a camaro, I think they are black, Plus my T/A interior is still apart if you want to see how everything comes apart, shoot me a PM. I'm in the Riverwest area of Milwaukee