ShMaCk2004

I made this guide to help people with 4th gen dash swap because it is becoming more popular and it also goes well with LTx and LSx swaps.

My goal here is to provide a write-up of the process and what is involved with doing the swap and making everything mount and work correctly.

Remember this information is from what I did on my swap so your swap may have some minor differences in wiring and some mounting. I have also added a list of useful 4th gen interior swap related threads at the bottom.

The pics are in the posts below because there is a pic per post limit...

The wiring diagrams are what I used on my swap. Some of you may need other wiring diagrams.

This guide is just to cover the main aspects of the swap and point people in the right direction.

I will skip the removal of the original dash simply because it’s so easy a caveman could do it.

I strongly recommend soldering and heat shrinking EVERY CONNECTION! Butt connectors will do but I don’t like or trust them. NEVER twist wires together and wrap them with tape.

I strongly recommend pulling everything you possibly can from the donor 4th gen. Wiring, brackets, everything! Also if you are going to paint the dash do it before the install. I recommend SEM Color Coat for plastics and vinyl. I used it on mine and I am very pleased with the results. Also remove the airbag from the dash as it gets in the way of the HVAC unit.

There are 3 types of 4th gen dashes

93-96 Camaro
97-02 Camaro
93-02 Firebird (there is differences between 93-97 and 98-02 but they are so unimportant that I will not list them as different)

There are 3 types of 4th gen center consoles

93-97 Camaro
93-97 Firebird
98-02 Camaro and Firebird

The console you use should be for the dash you are using. The 98-02 consoles can be used on all Firebird dashes. I am not sure how well a 98-02 console works on a 93-97 Camaro dash.

There are 4 types of gauge clusters.

93-96 Camaro
97 Camaro
93-97 Firebird
98-02 Camaro and Firebird

The 97-02 Camaro gauge cluster bolts right into 93-02 Firebird dashes. The 93-96 Camaro clusters and dashes are way different in shape. The 98-02 clusters will not work on stock 3rd gen or LTx drivetrains due to the fact that the LS1 PCM controls the gauges. If using a 98-02 dash on an LT1 or 3rg gen drivetrain you will need the 93-97 Firebird cluster. The 93-97 cluster will need a converter box for the tach if using a V6 cluster on a V8 or a V8 cluster on V6

If you have a cable driven speedo you will need an electric speed sender for your trans and a buffer box to control it. You may need a converter box for that as well.

We will start with the wiring aspect once the original dash is out.

Use these wiring diagrams depending on what gauge cluster you are using.

Just look at the diagrams and match the wires.

The LS1 and LT1 clusters are wired differently. The LS1 cluster gets its info from the PCM while the LT1 cluster gets its info directly from the senders.

We will start with the LT1 cluster because it is used more on swaps with the stock 3rd gen powertrain.




Here is the LS1 cluster wiring.






The headlight switch is the same with LT1 and LS1 dashes.

HEADLIGHT SWITCH
Orange to orange
red to red
yellow to yellow
brown to brown
the brown also needs to go to your dimmer switch input and the output from that goes to the grey wires for your dash lights and also the grey lead for the headlight switch

DIMMER SWITCH
Outer Wires
Black - ground
White - Dome light
Brown – Parking lights from headlight switch
Green –To grey wires for dash lights

Wire Functions
white is for the dome lights
grey is dash lights
yellow to headlights
brown is your parking lights
the orange and red are hot at all times
all black are ground



You can also run the wires for the hatch release to the dash like the 4th gen had.

Once the wiring is done it is time to mount the dash
You have to cut off part of the top of the 3rd gen bracket on both sides.

The bottom support bar doesn’t just bolt up. There are different ways to mount it. I’ll show you what I found to be easy and effective. Once the side brackets are cut I bent them 90 degrees inward and made some brackets out of aluminum bars I got from home depot.

The top almost bolts right up to the firewall
The far passenger side bolt hole lines up perfect. The 2 center bolt hole need to be drilled for the bolts to go in. The far driver side doesn’t quite reach so again I made a bracket for it with the home depot aluminum bars.

You will need to trim the HVAC piping to fit. There are many ways to do this and all I can tell you is what I did. I trimmed it to fit and ONLY for the defrost to work. I did not care about AC and the other vents. Other member on TGO have made all the vents and AC work, I simply did not care to bother with it that much. The switches are again up to you. The fan speed switch just plugs right in. The heat/AC cable will need to be modified as well as the vent switch and vacuum tubes. I just left the heat cable in the full heat position and made the vent switch just turn the fan on.

Once the fab work is done you can now bolt the dash on. Make sure that it sits properly and is nice and sturdy. Make sure to run all wires where they need to go and connect all the connectors where they go

Once the dash is in place install the gauge cluster, radio, trim pieces, and other odds and ends.
Now it’s time for the dash pad. You have to cut it to make it fit. What I did was I made a dash pad out of cardboard and used it as a template to cut the dash pad to fit. Pretty easy

Now for the center console. The console should just bolt in (mine did) I hear sometime you may have to trim them. You will also have to mount your window switches on the console. I just made a plate out of plastic and used epoxy to stick it where the ash tray was.

LIST OF OTHER THREADS REGARDING 4TH GEN DASH AND OTHER 4TH GEN INTERIOR SWAPS
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/interior/490314-4th-gen-dash-swap.html
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/inte...tegration.html
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/interior/563837-my-01-interior-swap.html
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/interior/564519-another-4th-gen-dash.html
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/interior/473292-my-4th-gen-dash.html
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/interior/548816-my-4th-gen-dash.html
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/body...ring-good.html
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/body...-exterior.html
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/fabr...automatic.html

Well that should do it. If anything isn’t clear feel free to PM me and I’ll help you with it and edit this if need be.

More pics will be added as I put my dash back in my car. (removed it to do re-wiring for the LS1 Swap I am currently doing. Also if I can gather all the information then I might edit this guide to cover as much about the minor aspects as possible but this will do for now.

Hope this proves helpful stay tuned for the LS1 swap guide I plan on making.

FYRCHKN

I vote to:
STICKY THIS!!!!

It's so much better than the same questions asked every 3-4 days.

ShMaCk2004

Silly TGO limiting me on pics per post...
Pic post 1

ShMaCk2004

Pics post 2




MORE SOON

ericjon262

camaro dashes are 1993-1996, and 1997-2002, the 1997 camaro has the new dash and the LT1.

ShMaCk2004

oh really? "edit" lol
also added a list of useful threads

ericjon262

Thats why I'm looking for a 97 dash before I keep going on my dash swap, but, if the 'bird cluster fits the 97+ camaro dash, my search may be ending soon! thanks!

I too cast my vote

STICKY!

ShMaCk2004

The dashes should still mount the same so you can use the dash you have to get all the prep work out of the way.
All 93-02 firebird clusters and 97-02 camaro clusters are the same shape and size and are interchangeable. just remember there is a difference in wiring for LTx and LSx clusters.

dynodanmanda79

iTrader: (1)

I think you may have talked me into doing this later on down the road..... I was looking at the schematics for the 4th gen instrument cluster, i didn't see a pin for the shift light. Did 4th gen manual transmission camaros have a shift light on the dash? or no?

Thanks, Dan



I also vote for this to be a sticky!

92Firebug

Great Thread... STICKY VOTE CAST! STICKY THIS THREAD ASAP

ShMaCk2004

I dont think they had a shift light, at least i never saw one in the many 4th gen clusters i played with. there is a skip shift light though

1ADan

iTrader: (4)

subscribing for my own future projects

keep up the awesome work

The_Wraith

x2

Camrs89

this isnt a sticky yet?

dynodanmanda79

iTrader: (1)

I've been wanting to ask this, what are you guys doing about front speakers when you're swapping to a 4th gen dash? I think when I do mine I'm going to buy the Q-logic kick panels with the speaker holes in them.

The_Wraith

You mount them on the door panels. I made custom pods. I figured I would destroy speakers mounting them in the kick panel area.

ShMaCk2004

i still havent done mine yet, im on the fence about trying the 4th gen door panels.

87bluebird

half those links you added don't work

gooseward_r6

Man that looks killer.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Now, if someone could ILLUSTRATE the differences between the dashes, clusters, and consoles, that might help. I'm looking for a good pic of a 93-96 Camaro cluster.

ANOTHER STICKY VOTE!!!

87bluebird

heres a few pics of the 93-96 camaro dash and cluster

87bluebird

heres some pics of the 97-02 camaro dash and cluster

bradley23150

iTrader: (10)

This may be a stupid question, but it seems like the kind that I am capable of asking, lol. But, I am using a Carb'd motor, not an LT1, or LS1, just an old school Gen1 with no FI. Is all the wiring from the 4th gen I need just the wiring pigtails that run to the back of the 4th gen instrument cluster? Then I just cut the pigtails off of the 3rd gen harness, and adapt those to the pigtail that was cut from the 4th gen, and thats all there is to that?

Thanks.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

I was looking especially for a pic of the 93-97 cluster when not installed. I have a cluster that looks like it may work on the outside, but I haven't seen a good pic of the early cluster uninstalled.

:edit: Quoted wrong post .

87bluebird

here maverick is this what you want

my internet's being a PITA tonight but if it keeps going i will post pics of the 4th gen firebird dash.
and the different 4th gen consoles.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Yes, and no. Dangit. I was kind of hoping it went in through the top instead of being pushed in the front. Now I have a useless cluster sitting around, complete with wiring. .

Do you have any measurements on the width of it? Maybe I can salvage what I have...

87bluebird

sorry maverick i dont got one so no measurements from me that was just a pic from a google search.
and heres pics of the 4th gen firebird dash

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

I'm interested in the 93-96 Camaro dash because the cluster looks an awful lot like the cluster I have from an 87 Grand Prix I pulled to put in my 93 GP when I had it. Same shape and everything, except the mounting tabs. The cluster has the digital speedo and fuel gauge...

87bluebird

if i where you i would go to one of the 4th gen f-body forum sites and ask for measurements and if anyone has ever done this mod before.
can you post a pic of the grand prix cluster.

did you mean 88 grand prix cause the 87 is different than the 88-96 grand prix?

bradley23150

iTrader: (10)

Also, does the lower metal bar that runs the length of the dash, bolt in between the steering column and the steering column mount?

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

It may have been an 88 the guy mislabeled as an 87... Couldn't check the VIN due to the windshield being so dirty, and I'm not 100% sure what year the W-body went FWD (was an FWD with the 2.8). I'll have to see what I can dig up on the 4th gen sites, I suppose, or maybe head to a yard somewhere if I get a chance to use a car. The bottom of the cluster is flat on the bottom, but there is room there to clearance it for the steering column.

sablemaniac

the w-body went to FWD in '88. i'm a member of that forum lol.

87bluebird

yeah that gen ran from 88-96. maverick can you post a pic of that cluster?

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

I'll get the pics up tomorrow as I've just spent the last 4 hours getting my internet back working again and haven't taken a pic yet...

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Needed the camera for something else, so I finally got a pic of the Grand Prix cluster. Is it just me, or is it pretty darn close in size and shape to the 93-96 Camaro cluster, minus the side brackets? I'm sure that the gear indicator could be removed with some paint and that the front could be trimmed up to match the contours of the Camaro dash, if they were that close in width and height (I don't have a cluster to measure, so I couldn't tell). There's nothing behind the gear indicator until you hit the PCB at the back of the cluster, which has 2 traces under the indicator's back light (traces could possibly be relocated with wires).

The_Wraith

I have owned a few of those 88-93 GP clusters. I know for sure the speedo will be problem when trying to splice into the F-body wiring. The W-body gets a pulse type signal to run the speedo. Compare VSS gears and you will see what I'm talking about, it wont work. The Tachometer will also be off unless your car is a V6. All the other gauges should wire up no problem. Those clusters are not all that similar to the Camaro one and the front lens in different. They are also somewhat prone to problems.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Electric cluster here... either 2000 or 4000 PPM, depending on my V6 ECM setup (which is why I'm interested in if the cluster will work)... Don't have a GP to compare gears with anymore, but I've seen pics of the 4T60E gears and they look pretty close to the ones I have sitting on my shelf from my 700R4.
And I still have to modify the cluster to have at least 2 HID LED bulbs lit full time, as the LCD isn't backlit and is very dark... I'll have to see if I can get my hands on a Camaro cluster and compare the 2 side by side.

The_Wraith

Ive got 3 gears one from a 4T60, one from a TH125 and one from a 700R4. The 4T60 VSS from a 90 Grand prix is aluminum with small slots on it. The other two have plastic gears. Maybe the 4T60E is different.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Well, I figure that I'll attempt to hook it up to my wiring the way everything is now and test to see if it will work. If not, then I guess I can crap can the cluster or sell it on eBay, CraigsList, or ClubGP.org.

And then, if it does work, I can try to get my hands on the Camaro cluster and compare the 2 side by side. If it obviously won't work, same deal. If it will, then I might have to save my pennies for the matching dash. I have lots of time on my hands with the car down for the count right now (lots of metal work needs to be done).

nolmtD2

this a great thread. just one question. which dash/cluster would you suggest be best suited for a 1992 camaro RS? any advise would be helpful. thanks.

Dizturbed One

Wow too bad I threw away a cluster from a 95 Z28 not even 6 months ago. I feel like a dumbass now.

Awesome thread, I think I may be doing a dash/motor/trans swap now instead of a motor/trans swap. I like the idea of a whole donor car better anyways.

ty1on2

This Is A Sticky
4>>>>sure
Super job man, I love it, not sure I want to go thru all the work,LOL

VSnakeByteV

Here is a silly question, but will the steering column from the 4th gen also fit in the 3rd gen?

Also with the 3rd gen columns and keys with out a chip (86 and older I believe) is that a problem with the new computer and such?

87bluebird

click this

87bluebird

hey maverick why not try to mount the grand prix cluster in your stock dash. theres a few threads on this site where people have put 4th gen clusters in third gen dashes.you could probably do the same with a grand prix cluster.

also try dakota digital or magden or some one like that for a converter to get the electronics working

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Well, the plan is one of 2 things. 1 being that I swap the dash and see if the GP cluster will work. 2 is that I use the guide I bought on eBay and custom build my own digital dash in the existing cluster housing, except that the guide is part 1 of 2 and 2 isn't made anymore, apparently, and all of the good stuff is in part 2 (not to mention that all of the required chips are costly). Besides, the GP cluster would look kind of weird in the dash housing, and the dash would need to be modified for the wiring of the cluster, since the harness connector for the cluster is in the bottom of the cluster pointed towards the floor of the car when installed. Then there is still the question of mounting the cluster, which has a different mounting bracket setup, and the fact that it needs to be modified to be seen during the day (needs a backlight installed... the LCD's work fine, however).

The wiring is a direct plug in and uses stock GM senders (it IS from an 88, after all).

:edit: Although, now that I think about it, the cluster would leave me room in the dash for the oil temp, EGT, and A/F ratio digital gauges I'm looking for. Hmm... But I'd still need to find a place to mount the speedo with the original odometer .

87bluebird

heres a link to one of the threads that shows a 4th gen cluster in third gen dash.
is your stock dash the gauge one or idiot light one? if its the gauge dash put your speedo in the one to the farthest right and a little bit of fiberglass work around this cluster with holes for the extra gauges you mentioned.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Don't think it will work in a Firebird... The Camaro gauge cluster is WAY taller than the Bird one due to all the gauges being positioned around the steering wheel in the Camaro and the Bird gauges running halfway across the dash. Basically, Camaro cluster is tall and narrow and ours are short and wide. Besides, the 93-97 Camaro cluster is wider than the later ones.

I'll have to grab my spare cluster housing and find out.

superT

iTrader: (1)

This is an awesome thread. Got to be a STICKY!
One question though, can you put the firebird dash in a 85 camaro? The reason I am asking is because in a thirdgen the dashes are different.

1ADan

iTrader: (4)

i feel like a dummy right now, but I'm in the middle of my dash swap and for some reason, cant figure out the dimmer switch wiring for the life of me. The connectors between my 87 ta dash and 98 ta are the same and I know the black (ground) & white (dome) wires are direct swap. but the two outer wires I can't figure out. what are the A and D pins for on the vehicle? I've got the schematic for the new dash.