LTX and LSXPutting LT1's, LS1's, and their variants into Third Gens is becoming more popular. This board is for those who are doing and have done the swaps so they can discuss all of their technical aspects, including repairs, swap info, and performance upgrades.
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Theres a few people here who have done the LS1 and LT1 swap, so if you have questions you should be able to get some good answers.
TPI swap you say? I'm not even going to go there. Its actually not a hard swap, you just need the intake, sensors, wiring, ecm, fuel stuff, and you are pretty much set. The most critical part of a TPI swap, or almost any swap in general, is making sure you get ALL of the parts for the swap off the donor car. Having to piece together a setup will just nickel and dime you to death. A search is probably going to yield 1000's of posts, so I'd suggest a specific question or concern.
About all of the engine size/magic combo questions:
There is no magic combo. Why do you think so many different manufacturers keep trying different things? They have quite a bit of funding for development, so don't sell the factories short, Ford included. And yet almost year after year there is a different size engine out there better than the last. The improvement isn't some magical bore/stroke/rod/head combination but rather a mix of improved technology and parts combined with well/better matched parts. So if you want to ask if a 283 or 302 or 305 or 307 or 327 or 377 or 348 or whatever engine size you happen to come up with is a 'good' combo, of course it is. Is it better than any other? I'd say the best is the one with the correctly matched parts and the most cubic inches. Period. Want some solid proof? Take a look at racing. In just about every division/group/form of racing there is some sort of limit on cubic inches, usually with penalties for forced induction. Take a good look, and tell me that any of those teams are not constantly bouncing off the limit of cubes that the rules allow. They are not selling themselves short by building a 305 when they are allowed to run 350CI. There is a reason for that you know. Keep in mind that if you want to build that 302, 305, or 327 as opposed to the common 350, that is your choice. However, don't let anyone fool you into thinking that the 350 will not make more power, because it will, every time. I constantly see arguments about dad's 302 or 327, or how someone's 305 will smoke someone else's 350... well sure, thats entirely possible. Stick those same parts on the 350 and as long as they are a relatively good match for the 350, the 350 is going to eat the smaller engine alive. There is a huge difference between being able to make a 305 competitive with a 350 and which one will put out more power. I could probably make an 800hp 305 if I really wanted to, and that would blow away probably any 350 here. Does that make the 305 better? Not hardly, take the same parts and put them on a 350 or 400, and just think about what that will do to the power output. I am not by any means telling you not to build that 305, 302, 327, 283, 348... go right ahead. Sometimes we just have to work with what we have. But if you have a choice, don't ignore some of the excellent advice I see here that suggests to use a 350 instead. Its a very solid foundation, and has been built so many times by so many people, it makes it virtually foolproof for those of us who haven't spent our entire lives building engines. Some food for thought...
And with that, merry swapping.
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Last edited by madmax; 10-03-2002 at 12:01 AM.
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__________________ 93 - LT1 POWERED
Headmans Longtubes, full dual, Hurst V-Matic 2, 2002 4th gen leather seats,Custom dash with Phantom Autometer gauges, GTA molded door panels, Hotchkis Panhard,boxed control arms, Airfoil. Sub frame connectors, 17 X 9.5 ARE rims with 275'' All around, Zexel posi, 3.42 gears.
man Matt, I never realized how long our posts were! hopefully it will help out some other people though, cause there a lot of information in there that I knowhad to have been helpful. hows yours running now? Im having some idle problems but other than that, I still consider this the absolute best thing I have done to my car. Im planning on redoing the suspension next, near 350 hp is enough to satisfy me, for now atleast. now Im going for a good ride and looks. oh yeah, you still interested in making a site for the swap? Ive got digital camera now and Im learning some cool web stuff at school, so let me know, between the four or five of us that I know of that have done this swap, we could probably cover everything.
Yeah....I learned alot from all of ya (and others..like Z28racer since i'm runnin half his wrecked Z). Couldn't have done it without you guys... Let me know about the LT1 swap site idea....i got a few pics and a little experience.
__________________ 1989 Iroc-Z LT1 powered.... ported heads, 3 angle valvejob, ported intake, compcam 7-305-08 (220/230 @.50, 114*), SLP 1 3/4 headers, full 3" Borla adjustable sys, no cat, vette 700R4, 2500stall, 3.42 posi rear, K&N filter, cold air induction.
Spohn sub-frame connectors, eibach pro springs, KYB shocks & struts, polygraphite bushings all around, Year One slotted rotor upgrades.
Daytona style hood, 91-92 factory style spoiler, fresh red paint with black racing strips, 17" Iroc style chrome rims wrapped with BF Goodwrench G-Force Comp T/A KDWS Z's
LT1 swappers. I could create a virtual server on my bharris.org domain and call it maybe LT1swap.bharris.org and give enough disk space to handle all the photos and info. If you guys are interested in that let me know.
Hello everyone! MM89Iroc, we have the exact same car! It's funny... when I had my TPI, all I could think about was spending all of my money on building a procharged minirammed 383. Now that I have my LT1, Im thinking of doing more cosmetic things because I didn't spend very much on the swap. Plus, Im completely happy with my car's current HP output. So happy in fact, I can straight nale 4th gear rubber whenever I want with my combo!
I do programming for a living, but also design web sites on the side. I was thinking about getting a new third gen website going for all of us who have already went through the swap. This would help encourage more people to go through with an endeavor like this because we would have all of the information they needed on one site. What do you guys think about this? We could have a message board, owners' homepages, etc.
My next swap is either a SBC in a Mustang, or a LS1 in a 1992 RS. (once I find an RS)
Originally posted by madmax Keep in mind that if you want to build that 302, 305, or 327 as opposed to the common 350, that is your choice. However, don't let anyone fool you into thinking that the 350 will not make more power, because it will, every time.
I think I need to tattoo that into my signature on a few boards. Thanks for the post, mad.
__________________ J Matthew Daugherty 1986 SS with Engineoriginal L69 long block with: ¤ MAF TPI ¤ 1987 L69 cam ¤ Jet-Hot coated Hooker PN 2050 ¤ stock L69 cat (see-through) ¤ chargedair.com fan ¤ Drivetrain:mechanical g-body clutch linkage, 83 f-body fork, 10.5" / 26spline clutch, 1995 T56, 3.5" aluminum driveshaft, 3.73 factory posi diff. Chassis Global West CNR-88-C negative roll kit, Eibach front, Guldstrand rear springs, Praise Dyno Brakes 1LE cryo / slotted rotors on 9C1 spindles & calipers
If you need a PN in a hurry so you can order it and wait 10 days for it to get there instead of buying it locally, you're not in that big of a hurry.
Sorry I hope this dosnt sound stupid (it prolly will) but do we have any threads covering swapping in carbbed engines? I'm not sure how the electrical aspects of the swap would work out with regard to the ECU and stuff. I tried a search but I must not be in 'the zone' because I cant find it. Sorry.
Ok well I searched again and found a thread related to the ECU side of swapping from EFI to Carb:
Originally posted by lykwiphyde im sorry for my stupid question but whats the difference between the lt1 and the ls1? ive always wondered...
stevo.
LT1: was in the '92-'96 Corvette, '93-'97 Camaro and Firebirds. The LT1 is part of the next generation of small block chevy called Gen 2 (generation 2). This generation is slightly different than the original small block chevy design that came out in 1955. The Gen 2 engines (LT1, LT4, and L99) Have reverse flow cooling that sends radiator coolant to the heads first. The Gen 1 engines have it the opposite way. The other differance is having a gear driven water pump insted of a belt driven water pump that the gen 1 Engines have. The gear is driven off of the cam. Since the 4th generation f-bodies have such a super long winshield they couldn't leave the distributor in the back of the engine block. The gen 2 engines have the distributor in the front. The final thing that made the Gen 2 engines unique was the super short runner intake. This gave up 20 lbs. of torque from the long runner L98 it replaced with 55 HP. At the time 300HP was the new plateau that sports cars had to be at and GM had to bump the chevys 245HP in a hurry.
LS1: is a totaly different engine 100% redesigned from the old small block chevy v8s. Its found in the '97-present Corvettes and the '98-'03 Camaros and Firebird. It has a plastic/composite intake, indiviual coil packs insted of a distributor, evenly spaced inake and exaust ports. The combustion chambers all are lined up the same way unlike the Gen 1 and Gen 2 engines that seem more like 2 v4s welded put together.
i think i read on the website awhile back that the ls1 swap was the hardest swap out of the 350's? and out of the lt1 and the ls1 which one produce the most amount of power in its stock form?
Here's a little information about swapping the new 4200 Vortec inline six that I pulled from Hot Rod (August 2002)
The height of this block is 32.62", which will probably require some sort of custom hood.
Length is 32.86", making it roughly 3 inches longer than a V8. The 3 inches would probably not pose too big of a problem.
The inline six utilizes a 360* bellhousing, so you would need an adaptor to put the D-bolt TH700-R4 to it.
The electronics to operate the variable valve timing are very complicated, and would be a difficult swap until an aftermarket company like Painless steps in and clears a few things up.
The deep sump oil pan is a potential problem because of the F-Bodies crossmember. It may interfere.
The LS1 is now considered the better engine and has the ability to make more power the the previous LT1 design. Some of the new Vortec line in the pick ups still use the traditional small block design (which the LT1 comes from). That's where the Vortec heads come from that are so popular.
The LS1 is also an aluminum block. Because it's aluminum, they had to reconfigure the main cap design as well. It's basically a set up like the old Hemi engines had, which is that they're bolted from the bottom, and sides. They were able to do this by lowering the skirt of the block so that the caps are actually inside the skirt. And of course they use steel sleeves in the cylinders.
The truck engines that Iroc22 is talking about (Vortec series) are very well designed engines. The heads are basically an LT1 design that are made of iron instead of aluminum, and they don't have the reverse flow cooling design. That's why they work so well on Gen I small blocks.
The newest truck engines (which I think they still call the Vortec series, but I may be wrong on that) are designed from the LS1. Not sure what year they started them, I think 2000? They are the the 4.8L, 5.3L, and the 6.0L. They are not aluminum, but rather cast iron, but they share the same firing order, cam design, head design, etc., as well as the independant coils, ignition system, and composite intake manifold.
The one thing I'm not sure on is the lower skirt that I mentioned earlier. Due to the fact that they're iron, it may not be needed. I don't know on that one. Sorry.
Gn engine swap is another popular swap.It can be simplified if a complete 89 Turbo Trans am motor is available.But since these cars are so rare individuels wanting to swap in this motor are left picking through the TTypes and Grand nationals.Contranry to belief a GN motor will wit in the camaros and firebirds engne bay,without AC of course though.The TTA motor used specific engine mounts and pads that enabled the GN engine to bolt into the engine bay.There are a set of pads that mount on the factory engine crossmember of the Thirdgen Camaro and Firebird.If you have an empty engine bay or have seen a factory crossmember.The 3 hole drilled in a triangular fashion located to the back of the croossmember closes to the firewall are the 3 hole you can mount the TTA pads to,they mount like the factory V8 mounts do.Now Like I said before TTA engine are very rare to come by an you can imagine TTA parts are very rare also.But as I type a complete kit is going to be offered very soon to replace these factory pads and engine mounts in poly for the TTA.Here is the vendor offering it http://www.hrpartsnstuff.com/
Everything from a gn engine will fit,as you can intergrate the factory GN harness.But you are better off getting a TTA harness,either from aftermarket, http://www.casperselectronics.com/
or I think it may still be available from GM.It is better to use this harness as it plugs right into your firewall as your factory one did,and runs through the hingepiller on the passenger side as the factory one did also.Both TTA and GN computers are the same,proms are different.
About the only thing you may need to fabricate is a downpipe.This is my next step and I will update as I come to it.A Aftermarket Terry Houston TTA pit might be a good starting point as it has bends to go right to the factory cat,and the rest of the pie could be modified up to the turbo.
Some thing to consider:
Although you can use Gn mounts and pad,they will have to be welded to the crossmember and they will sit the motor lower in the engine bay and you will have some clearence problems,this is a reason to use the TTA mounts either factory if you can get them,or aftermarket like I mentioned as they sit the motor up a little higher(1/2 inch or so) so you have more clearence,especially in the oil filter area as it will sit close to crosslink bar in steering with motor mount setup from Gn.
Reasons to swap this motor:Good bit of aftermarket support,good amount of power just stock,gets great gas miliage,its Turbocharged .Ill post more as my project moves forward
Wow, this post keeps getting bigger and bigger. Cool.
I am doing the LS1 swap... My question is with stuff like suspension...
Do we use the thirdgen stuff originallymade for the 700R4 or for the 4l60E? For example Drive shaft loop... Since I am doing a whole drive train swap (engine, trans, rear end) things like LCA's, driveshaft loops, etc... is really important.
4L60E is the exact same dimensions and everything as 700R4 (4L60). The only real difference is the E is shifted via solenoids inside the valvebody by the computer. The corvette servo, boost valve and torque converters are compatible between the 2.
__________________
91 Camaro RS Convertible 385ci LT1
Advanced Induction CNC ported aluminum heads
LT4 Hot cam on second revision of this build.
4L60E with everything thrown in it to withstand LT1
Still running 7.5" rear with 3.42 gears and zexel posi until I blow it up with new engine.
Subframe connectors welded in to support chassis with new engines increased power.
spohn lower control arms and panhard bar to help keep power planted to the ground.
IROC steering box and front chassis support to make the twisties more fun.
Last edited by brharris27370; 08-10-2002 at 08:51 PM.
for someone doing the LS1 swap which would be prefered the LS1 from a corvette or trans am/camaro? What are the advantages/disadvantages from each engine??
For hoesepower the Vette engine is prefered. However the oil pan and accessory brackets will have to be changed. Vette engines are more expensive as well. I almost considered an ls6, but the extra money can required can be better spend on mods.
:hail: Hi, Fellas I work at an Auto Recycling facility here in Pensacola,Fl. I am a member of Florida Third-Gen as well. I just got my 92 RS Camaro up and going. Now I am putting in an LT1 that I bought very very cheap at my job. The problem is I have never done the swap nor do I know anyone who has. I now turn to you all for guidance. I have everything complete in the car waiting for me to swap. What difficulties if any are the main concern that I might run into...meaning what parts that I am not getting will I have to buy in order to get the engine in, or since I have everything complete will it just bolt right in. I know the wiring will be the most time consuming event, but will the mounts bolt right up and will my 5 speed tranny bolt right up...I have heard it will but again I have never done the swap. All of my customers (auto shops) here in town say they want no part of doing the swap due to the electrical aspect. I honestly can not see it being as difficult as they describe it to be. Help help help..any knowledge is greatly greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
__________________ 92 25th Anniversary Camaro, T-Tops, 305TBI, 5 Speed, Red with Black Racing Stripes, MSD Ignition, Monster T
I heard a rumor that there is an A/C compressor relocation bracket for use when doing an LT1 swap. Does anyone know if such an animal exists, and if so where can you buy it? Is it aftermarket or GM from another body style vehicle?
Are there any books or literature for swaps with either engine? I would like a "How-To" comprehensive guide. I'm sure the LT1 swap is much easier than an LS1 swap, but I am yet to hear of the intricacies involved in an LS1 swap.
Just to add more info to this, Car Craft has an article of swamping a LT1 into their 87 Malibu. Not the same, but it has some info. It should be on their site carcraft.com
This is one of the most useful posts I've seen in my life. Thanks for all your help.
__________________ Online Drag Racing -------Reaction Time Tester! Red 1982 Trans Am MSE Hooker 1 5/8 primaries, 3 inches back, 3:73s
Red 1990 Formula with ZZ4 motor, Hooker 2055s, American Thunder catback
Black 1991 GTA with 3 inch Flowmaster Catback system
Black 2002 WS6 Bone Stock
If you go to my website and read though it, it will answer most of the questions.
Which is better: the Vette LS1 and the camaro LS1:
The camaro, Why?
The oil pan does not have to be changed, you do not have to change the fuel rail (my site explains this) or your cars fuel system, you can use the factory exhaust manifolds(LS1), you can use all of the accessory brackets........
There might be a difference for the better (of the Vette) in the cam, but an aftermarket cam will blow either ( camaro and Vette) away.
As far as transmissions: you have to use the trans. that is built for the LS1. the bolt patterns (to the engine block) are different between the LS1 and the non LS1 transmissions.
LS1 Vs. LS6
The LS1 can always be upgraded to the LS6. The main differences are intake, heads and cam.
If you are going through the trouble of changing heads and cam, you're better off going aftermarket for better performance.
If you are doing any modifications to the engine, you are most likely going to get the computer reprogrammed. This can also get rid of O2 sensors, EGR, Skip Shift, VATS, and many other potential problems, while unleashing the full potential of power.
These are just my humble opinions, feel free to agree or disagree.
__________________ 1987 IROC-Z Screaming Yellow.
Mods: 1998 LS1 (now LS6) with six speed, many more...
It might be becuase my computer is messed up, but I can't see anything when I click on the links.
__________________ Online Drag Racing -------Reaction Time Tester! Red 1982 Trans Am MSE Hooker 1 5/8 primaries, 3 inches back, 3:73s
Red 1990 Formula with ZZ4 motor, Hooker 2055s, American Thunder catback
Black 1991 GTA with 3 inch Flowmaster Catback system
Black 2002 WS6 Bone Stock
Thats what I did at first. Then I saw the ... in the middle. Just looked at the properties and then copy and pasted the links.
__________________ Online Drag Racing -------Reaction Time Tester! Red 1982 Trans Am MSE Hooker 1 5/8 primaries, 3 inches back, 3:73s
Red 1990 Formula with ZZ4 motor, Hooker 2055s, American Thunder catback
Black 1991 GTA with 3 inch Flowmaster Catback system
Black 2002 WS6 Bone Stock
Anyone going with the LS1 engine try to get a 2002 engine if possible. I currently own a 2002 TA (293hp/313ft-lb torque at rear wheels totally stock w/ 2500 miles on it) and it does have the LS6 intake manifold on it. This is a $500 part if you decide to change it on say a 98+ LS1 with the LS1 intake. It also flows a lot better.
1) these new LS1 engines don't have that low bottem end torque like our old style L98 350's. If I'm runnng along in 1st at say 1000-1500 rpm and stomp on it it doesn't take off like my 1988 w/ the 350 does. My 1988 will light the tires up at 1000-1500 in 1st. These engines are made for high rpms and they like it. At 4000rpm is where mine will really set you back in your seat all the way to the cut-off at 6000 rpm. I recommend an aftermarket cam before you swap it in to get a little more low end. Basically if you think 4th gear is fine for getting around someone go to 3rd..the engine will take it and you will love the acceleration!
2) THe clutch in the 98+ f-bodys will NOT hold up very long. Mine is fine but I only have 3500 miles on the car. A lot of people have problems with these clutches and some of it to blame is on the hydraulics associated with the throwout bearing and clutch. Go to www.ls1.com and do a search for clutch. Found out that the 01 & 02 LS1's came with the LS6 (corvette Z06) clutch so they should hold up to a 360 rear wheel horsepower car but after that you may want to consider an upgraded clutch.
3) Be warned the 6-speeds are tricker than the 5-speed. It is easy to downshift from 5th to 2nd and essentially bend the pushrods or blow the motor before the rev limiter can kick in. I haven't done it but a lot of people have. The 6-speed is fun and get's great gas mileage and 3.73 gears are a good for this tranny. My stock 3.42's are good also and keep the motor at 4000+ during fast upshifts. 6th gear...don't even think about it until your at 55mph or above. 60mph = 1200rpm.
4) I am seriously considering a LS1 or a 383 w/ ACCEL TPI into my 88' TA soon. LS1 more so becasue I can get a used one with all the fuel injection, computer, etc where the 383 will not come with all the extras.
The LS1's do have a problem with piston slap when first cranked up in the mornings and slight valve noise but seems to go away after 2 minutes...some say their's don't go away! The rear-end in these cars....whine, rattle or click and my rear whines loud at 55-60 and 30-40. THey tried to fix it 3 times now along with a whole new rear end and the new one did the same thing. Oh the brake rotors warp very easily on the new f-body cars and mine are warping already also!
Overall these cars have a fw peoblems but they are some fast, nice f-body cars and love the high rpms! I would recommend going ahead and changing the stock LS1 cam to something different to give it that extra boost to put it ahead of the many stock LS1 f-body cars on the road right now. These motors are easy to hop up and a cam is an easy 30hp additive to the rear wheels on these cars. Next do some head work if you got the money left over.
How have the guys that have done the LS1 swap wired it up? Theres a company that makes a harness thats full "plug n play" with the thirden, but they get $950 for the thing! Did you guys splice into the factory thirdgen harness to get everything to work, like gauges, or did you replace them with aftermarket? Thanx
__________________ -Tony
fbodycentral.com
L98 is finally running! Time to break it in a few hundred miles, then go roast some tires!
Hey guys,
I am putting in an LT1 into my camaro this week. My main concern is the computer. I am worried about the oxygen sensors. I want my engine to run right. So if you could please explain how you did yours let me know thanks.
__________________ Engine:
1996 LT1
Intake, Headers, Full exhuast, with 80 series. Fully edited computer, No smog, no emissions.
Tranny:
TH-350, Street/Strip shift kit, with Hurst Rachet Shifter
Rear:
2000 SS 3.42 Posi Traction rear with Tubular lower control arms and panhard bar
The intention of this post was to give information, links, books, etc on swapping engines to help people and answer some common questions that come up repeatedly. It was not to ask questions, thats really what the board is for. This post is getting cluttered and less useful by the day, locking this and cleaning it up later. If you have specific questions, please ask on the board. Thanks.
.Ill post more as my project moves forward 
Just looked at the properties and then copy and pasted the links. 
