LTX and LSXPutting LT1's, LS1's, and their variants into Third Gens is becoming more popular. This board is for those who are doing and have done the swaps so they can discuss all of their technical aspects, including repairs, swap info, and performance upgrades.
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I know I'm possibly starting a flame fest, but here goes anyway.
Today while browsing car-part.com I came to find that I can get a 4.8 (tiny ls1) for $350 with low miles. It's not the most powerful engine at (maybe) 250 hp, but here's what I'm thinking.
1. New technology
It's not an 87 tpi, so it makes more power, more efficiently and there are alot of tuning options if I use LS1 intake and ECU parts. the heads must be okay if LS1 guys are porting them to use on alluminum blocks for more compression.
2. Modest torque
It's hard to find a t56 for cheap, so any motor that could use my t5 sounds great. I don't need alot of traction for what I'm doing, so hooking up isn't an issue.
3. Less weight
Combine alluminum heads and a plastic (or whatever) LS1 intake and you have .... well, less weight. The new block might even be lighter than the tpi motor, I don't know where to get the info on that.
4. Cheap
Did I mention it was 350 dollars? Even after adding accesories and swap parts I might still be under the price to build a motor for what I want to do.
It might even be better on gas (see #1. New technology).
So all that stated, what opinions do you guys have on this?
Info on Vortec 4800
This 4.8 liter V8 truck engine is a de-bored and de-stroked cast-iron block version of the small-block LS1 from the Corvette! The Vortec 4800, or LR4, has aluminum cylinder heads and a new, more powerful electronic throttle control computer. The 4800 utilizes the same block and cylinder heads as the Vortec 5300. The detailed engine specifications and the vehicles where the 4800 is mounted can be seen below.
Vortec 4800
Type: V8
Displacement: 4.8 L (4807 cc, 293 ci)
Horsepower: 285 (212 kW) @ 5200 rpm
Torque: 295 ft lbf (398 Nm) @ 4000 rpm
Bore: 3.78 in (96 mm)
Stroke: 3.27 in (83 mm)
Compression: 9.5:1
Valve Configuration: Overhead
Ignition System: Direct, Coil-near-Plug
Lifters: Hydraulic Roller
Cam Drive: Chain
Valves per cylinder: Two
Hmmm. OK, you can get the engine cheap - but the other, swap-related costs are still going to be the same...
For the work involved, I'm not sure that you'd think it was worth it in the end. I just don't know. I suppose that the good thing would be that once you were done (& perhaps wanting more), a 6L would probably drop right in...
I guess I could see a 5.3 - but a 4.8 strikes me as a bit of a stretch, unless it's going into a platform that's already pretty lightweight...
Do it. It is the same dimensions as an LS1 isn't it? You could always swap later.
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I've been thinking seriously about this swap. It's got ALOT more power than my LO3, and I really don't want to get rid of my T-5 either (I just put it in). I say go for it, especially for $350. The cheapest I've found them on car-part.com around me is about $400-$500.
If I remember right, the 4.8 in my wife's truck has aluminum heads. I haven't looked at it in a while, but I'm almost positive. Her truck is pretty quick for a crew cab half ton, and it easily pulls my 18' bass boat. I think that motor in an F-body would be great for an economical daily driver that you could "play" with from time to time.
In stock trim the 4.8 is practically on par with the 5.3 hp-hp its in the torque where it gives up some. I'd swap in a bone stock one if i got everything with it for a driver that would be fun. But if you plan any and I mean ANY mods then I wouldn't waste my time with the 4.8 I'd skip right past it and go for a 6.0 or at least a 5.7L
I know I'm possibly starting a flame fest, but here goes anyway.
Today while browsing car-part.com I came to find that I can get a 4.8 (tiny ls1) for $350 with low miles. It's not the most powerful engine at (maybe) 250 hp, but here's what I'm thinking.
1. New technology
It's not an 87 tpi, so it makes more power, more efficiently and there are alot of tuning options if I use LS1 intake and ECU parts. the heads must be okay if LS1 guys are porting them to use on alluminum blocks for more compression.
2. Modest torque
It's hard to find a t56 for cheap, so any motor that could use my t5 sounds great. I don't need alot of traction for what I'm doing, so hooking up isn't an issue.
3. Less weight
Combine alluminum heads and a plastic (or whatever) LS1 intake and you have .... well, less weight. The new block might even be lighter than the tpi motor, I don't know where to get the info on that.
4. Cheap
Did I mention it was 350 dollars? Even after adding accesories and swap parts I might still be under the price to build a motor for what I want to do.
It might even be better on gas (see #1. New technology).
So all that stated, what opinions do you guys have on this?
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In my area the lowest preices are
4.8 : 1350
5.3 : 1600
6.0 : 1800
If the price spread was like that id spend the extra coupe hundred on the 6.0. Or atleast the 5.3
But for 350$? I say do it. You can always go bigger later.
Or you can be a little smarta$$ and bore it out to a 5.0 LS engine. a 305 LS motor, that would be the $hit, lol. Hell I'd do it just for the giggles of it.
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I glad to see so many positive replys to this. I was sure no one would agree with me. Just to clarify, I'm not really looking for a ton of horsepower. Mostly I'd like a reliable motor for my daily/weeked slider. It's still a planning stages kinda thing, but if the price is right I'd like to use an LS1 harness and intake on it. The ECU would have to be reflashed to remove vats, sensors and what have you. That'll bring up the power a bit without breaking the bank. 300hp in a 3000lb car can't be too bad really. I worry about the T-5 bolting up, it's the smallblock pattern yes, but the flywheel/clutch area is the clincher. It could come together for under 1200 maybe...
Too bad the guy with $400 t56 dissapeared, that'd been great.
i say do it, but do the t56 swap as well and if you ever need more power like we all do just swap it for a bigger motor.and the t56 will give you better gas milage
I glad to see so many positive replys to this. I was sure no one would agree with me. Just to clarify, I'm not really looking for a ton of horsepower. Mostly I'd like a reliable motor for my daily/weeked slider.
If thats what your after I say go for it. Dont think the 4.8 is going to be any slouch it'll wake your ride RIGHT the &%^#* up Heck I'd still worry about the t5 they are not very tough I've broken a few behind 5.0 and 5.7 small blocks. Third gear... for me it was always third gear
your tpi will outrun the 4.8. they are not powerful at all.
do a 5.3 or save for a 6.0 swap. the difference will amaze you.
but with that comes the price for the fair ride. better the ride, the more the ticket.
your tpi will outrun the 4.8. they are not powerful at all.
you sure about that? it has about the same torque if not more, and almost 100 more horsepower. the 5.3 of the same year has about 30hp more
also the 4.8 and 5.3 are basically the same motor. 4.8 just has a shorter stroke. I have one of each in my garage and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
ive seen 4.8 trucks run. ive seen 4.8 swaps with cams and headers and such.
they just dont perform like the larger inch motors.... nothing wrong with them, just better options out there if you are going to make a complete change in a motor line up.
it would be like getting rid of a v6 and going to a v8, but picking the 305 over the 350. if it makes sense.
ive seen 4.8 trucks run...they just dont perform like the larger inch motors....
Now see, I have to disagree. I drive a 4.8 every day and it beats the snot out of my last truck with the holy vortec 350 in it! I mean it makes that 350 look bad!!
Drop in that 4.8 and run it! Then save your money and build yourself a 6.0 killer engine on the stand while your having fun with your LSx car on the road. At that point it'll just be a normal type engine swap because you'll have the LS-special parts and details taken care of.
I have posted in a similar thread before about this - sort of.
My new GMC 1 ton service van has the 4.8. IT ABSOLUTELY BEATS THE LIVING SNOT OUT OF MY LAST VAN WITH THE VORTEC 350!!
I am not exaggerating one bit. This little engine kicks butt. I say do it.
I didn't know GM even put the 4.8 in anything bigger than the 2500, even in the vans. You most likely have the 6.0 in that G3500. I've driven all three and own a 1997 5.7 Vortec van. The old 350 will SMOKE the 4.8 and leave it in the rear view mirror. The old 5.7 will pull grades in OD that the 4.8 has to make a double downshift to pull.
The 5.0 TPI in my 1983 will walk on all the newer stock trucks.
Drop in that 4.8 and run it! Then save your money and build yourself a 6.0 killer engine on the stand while your having fun with your LSx car on the road. At that point it'll just be a normal type engine swap because you'll have the LS-special parts and details taken care of.
This is a good point, even though I probably wouldn't build a 6.0, well unless I started making enough money to get a t56 or r154. I keep finding the 4.8 for less and less money. It's like I could get 3 of them and build one up.
I'm still mulling it over. It won't be until fall if I do this anyway. I'd still have to figure out how to bolt up a t-5 (like what clutch and flywheel) and if should I do a wiring change or use a 4th gen dash. These are weird times.
you can build a nice motor out of a 4.8. make an iron block 346, you would have to change the crankshaft and rods if staring with a 4.8. Plus people get good power out of the 862 heads(found on most 4.8/5.3's).
Maybe we were lucky but we bought a couple trucks new one both 2x4's one 4.8 and one 5.3 and the difference between them was small in terms of performance. Pulling power was where the 5.3 stood out but when both were empty and pinned there was little speed difference between them they both flew. I agree with above comments re the 5.3 literally blowing the doors off the old mighty vortec 5.7. I used to tow my sleds to Cochrane every winter from here ( 12 hr drive ) and the vortec would tow at 75 comfy and work hard to go more. The 5.3 towed at 85 effortlessly. Keep in mind this was a brand new truck too fwiw but we were all blown away with the power out of these new engines. This was in 99 and the previous Vortec truck was a 96 which we used until 98.
I didn't know GM even put the 4.8 in anything bigger than the 2500, even in the vans. You most likely have the 6.0 in that G3500. I've driven all three and own a 1997 5.7 Vortec van. The old 350 will SMOKE the 4.8 and leave it in the rear view mirror. The old 5.7 will pull grades in OD that the 4.8 has to make a double downshift to pull.
The 5.0 TPI in my 1983 will walk on all the newer stock trucks.
Absolutely false. My 2005 G3500 van has a 4.8 in it, not a 6.0. I do all the maintenance on it myself. I'll attach some photos for verification.
I'de love to get that kind of a price on a 4.8 liter, they're good engines. You get all the performance gains of the LS style engines you're just down some cubes.
Funny, i was just thinking about posting a thread a like this. Now does anyone know if this swap would be a smog legal???
I'm worried that the smog Nazi's would have a little hissy fit over this being a light truck engine into a passenger car.(despite the obvious better emissions)
Depends where you live I'm sure, If they don't do visual how would they ever know. These engines will probably be better than the stock Thirdgen engines at meeting the requirements.
Depends where you live I'm sure, If they don't do visual how would they ever know. These engines will probably be better than the stock Thirdgen engines at meeting the requirements.
yeah but Ca has a stupid law about crossing vehicle classes. Plus the 5.3/4.8s look different then LS1s and the block numbers(which they check) will be a giveaway that its a 4.8
Maybe we were lucky but we bought a couple trucks new one both 2x4's one 4.8 and one 5.3 and the difference between them was small in terms of performance. Pulling power was where the 5.3 stood out but when both were empty and pinned there was little speed difference between them they both flew. I agree with above comments re the 5.3 literally blowing the doors off the old mighty vortec 5.7. I used to tow my sleds to Cochrane every winter from here ( 12 hr drive ) and the vortec would tow at 75 comfy and work hard to go more. The 5.3 towed at 85 effortlessly. Keep in mind this was a brand new truck too fwiw but we were all blown away with the power out of these new engines. This was in 99 and the previous Vortec truck was a 96 which we used until 98.
I've had a 200 HP TBI 350/4L80E in a 1996 Fullsize G30 Van to the fuel shut-off(98 MPH), pulling a 7,000 lbs loaded enclosed trailer on level ground and run it at 85-90 mph continuously, with a car inside. Pulling power is ALOT more determined by the gearing than the engine. GM put 3.73s in ALOT of the LSx truck combinations, while the 350 might have had 3.08s or 3.42s, not many had the 3.73s.
yeah but Ca has a stupid law about crossing vehicle classes. Plus the 5.3/4.8s look different then LS1s and the block numbers(which they check) will be a giveaway that its a 4.8
Ca is a gay state.
i dont think there is a designation on the block.
there is a gm tag on the back of the cyldiner head, but no way they will ever be able to get at it.
I've had a 200 HP TBI 350/4L80E in a 1996 Fullsize G30 Van to the fuel shut-off(98 MPH), pulling a 7,000 lbs loaded enclosed trailer on level ground and run it at 85-90 mph continuously, with a car inside. Pulling power is ALOT more determined by the gearing than the engine. GM put 3.73s in ALOT of the LSx truck combinations, while the 350 might have had 3.08s or 3.42s, not many had the 3.73s.
Not sure of gearing but the 96 was fully loaded. Every option available at the time. Z71, 4x4, Three door cab, Leather, etc etc. It was no slug it had plenty of grunt it just didnt have the power the 5.3 had in my experience.
Something you might want to consider...a T5 won't bolt up to that motor without modifications.
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good point. they barely live with a 305tpi if you rough-house them any.
Mine is on the way out anyway. We have a family friend who does transmission work and I thought I might (big might) get a gearset put in mine.
Might not happen, but I'm still keeping an eye on 4.8s.
If you want to, and can do it, then get the 4.8 and do the swap. Yes bigger engine will get you more power. Horsepower cost money and the more you want the more you are going to spend. Set a budget on what you can spend, Check prices on the parts you will need and see what you can get for your budget.
I personally think the 4.8 would make a great engine for your third gen.
I have done some digging on the 4.8L and what I have come up with is that it has TONS of potential. The stock heads flow just enough air to give you 450hp. Need I remind any of you that TBI heads suck balls? In STOCK longblock form you can make a 4.8L do very good things. The cool thing about the 4.8L is that its the same block as a 5.3L (dimentionally) the only diff. is that the 4.8L has a shorter stroke...thats it. Now, you ready for the cool part?
The 4.8L has a rod ratio of 1.92. And it sports 12 degrees of piston dwell time. Meaning? The engine will respond better to boost than a 5.3 or 6.0 or ANY other LS series engine. So IF you were able to get a new Intake/Cam and bolt a turbo up to this Iron block Aluminum headed V8. You honestly would have more hp than your TBI could ever dream of making. And hell, you dont even need a turbo to begin with. But if it was my swap I would take advantage of the dwell by installing a new cam at least. On LS engines its supposed to be very easy.
However! You will still have the swap problems a LS1 would have PLUS you will need to change the accy. brackets and oil pan.
Or you can be a little smarta$$ and bore it out to a 5.0 LS engine. a 305 LS motor, that would be the $hit, lol. Hell I'd do it just for the giggles of it.
If you spent money obring a 4.8, you'd just go 6.0L or atleast a 5.3L which can be bored to a 347.
As for the 4.8 vs. the 5.7l Gen1. Ive got a 5.3L in my iroc-z and a 5.7 in my K1500 '97 Pickup. the 350 is a pig on fuel, its slow as Sh!t, its a bitch to spin, throttle response sucks, and its got no punch.
The 5.3L in my camaro gets amazing gas milage, will spin the tires through the first few gears, throttle response is amazing, will revv to the moon, and you tap the throttle and it pins you in the seat.
see i would go for this too, especially for the fact of the boosting ability of the engine. the only problem is that they are exactly the same price as the 5.3's in my area
I've been considering swapping the LT1 out of my '97 Z28 for an LSx engine for quite a while now - more than likely I'd go with one of the smaller ones, like a 5.3L - especially if I could find an aluminum block 5.3 like the TrailBlazer SS had.
The 5.3 makes a little more HP than my LT1 (305hp VS 285hp IIRC) and about the same torque rating too I think (Both around 345ft-lbs). The LT1 is all stock except for the catback from a '99 LS1 SS Camaro, but thats only for the better sound and the nice round stainless exhaust tips.
The aluminum block 5.3L would probably dump close to 100lbs off the front of the car, and the fuel mileage would probably go way up, since its mostly in-town driving I'm doing. I doubt the highway mileage would increase much if any, as the LT1/T56/3.42 setup it has now has gotten over 30mpg on highway trips a few times.
I'd miss that amazing LT1 exhaust note if I did it though...
I actually have a 91 Trans Am GTA with the 350TPI motor that im swapping out for a 4.8 that im boring out to a 305 and lowering the compression to 7.5-1 so i can run about 28 pounds of boost with a twin 70 trim turbo set up
I actually have a 91 Trans Am GTA with the 350TPI motor that im swapping out for a 4.8 that im boring out to a 305 and lowering the compression to 7.5-1 so i can run about 28 pounds of boost with a twin 70 trim turbo set up
you can build a nice motor out of a 4.8. make an iron block 346, you would have to change the crankshaft and rods if staring with a 4.8. Plus people get good power out of the 862 heads(found on most 4.8/5.3's).
And by the time he's done buying all that he could have had a 6.0L, probably with money left over.
My '02 truck had a 4.8L and it was an impressive engine. Towed my Z28 plus a ~1200 lb tare wt trailer like it wasn't even there.
I'm not saying don't get the 4.8, just price out a 5.3 and/or 6.0 and make an informed decision.
Heck I'd still worry about the t5 they are not very tough I've broken a few behind 5.0 and 5.7 small blocks. Third gear... for me it was always third gear 
Mine is on the way out anyway. We have a family friend who does transmission work and I thought I might (big might) get a gearset put in mine.
