LTX and LSXPutting LT1's, LS1's, and their variants into Third Gens is becoming more popular. This board is for those who are doing and have done the swaps so they can discuss all of their technical aspects, including repairs, swap info, and performance upgrades.
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After a ton of time in design they are finally done. I fabricated a set of brackets that allows the use an R4 style compressor with my LS1. I designed brackets for the F-body accessories and the Corvette accessories. The stock stock A/C lines bolt right up with this setup. I designed these because there wasn't a good kit out there to address this issue. If anyone is interested I can make up a kit if you need one. The kit would include the brackets, spacers, hardware, smooth pulley, and serp belt. Please drop me a pm or e-mail me if you have any questions.
hope this helps a few of you out with your A/C questions on your swap.
so far I have 3 other guys on the club that have the brackets and they are all very happy.
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Nice writeup Josh. I had a chance this last weekend to revisit my car (see post here (LS1/700r4 Swap into 1987 GTA)for progress and pics of your brackets). A couple things to note:
* the pre-88 A/C lines may line up great, but the post 88 lines do not (they hit the wheel well)
* I didn't notice in your instructions anything about painting the brackets. After 2 weeks on the car inside the shop, mine have oxidized (rusted) on the edges. Any advice here?
Overall I think these brackets are the way to go. I'm going to be using the converter A/C line plate mentioned in the sticky and some custom lines. The plates are very solid and everything clears well with the 88+ overflow jug (pre-88 runs right into the compressor). Thanks for your hard work!
thanks for the feedback. I have a couple of questions.
Can the pre 88 lines be used on the post 88 cars?
How much do they hit the wheel well? can they be modified? Would it help to rotate the compressor? I could revise the design and move the holes if need be.
I had to bend the stock lines on my corvette because I moved my motor forward. and they were easy to bend, you just have to do it slowly.
On the painting. The steel brackets are raw steel, so they will need to be painted. I sell them raw to keep the overall cost down and some people want to paint them their own color. I have had a few guys powder coat their brackets too. As for yours, I would just get some primer for surface rust and paint them the color you want.
I am glad you are happy and I am glad that I could help you out. If there is anything that I can do to make this kit more accomodating (within reason) please let me know. So far I have these brackets in a bunch of C3 vettes, third gen f-bodies, and some 88-98 chevy trucks. So they apparently work in alot of applications.
Here is a picture of the setup in Ace's car. This was the first F-body kit I did. It is a 92 Formula. The AC lines are right next to the inner fender. He didn't say if he had to modify the lines. He never cracked the lines from the compressor though. The overflow will have to be relocated or just run an after market tank.
The whole purpose of this swap (for me) was that the car had great working ac with the original R12 in it. So swapping lines wouldn't be an ideal solution for me.
Yes, rotating the compressor would help, so that the holes in the compressor are level. Also tucking the compressor closer to the head would help too. I'd love to be able to use the factory overflow tank.
I will do everything that I can to make make these work. But I need your guys help since my 85 Iroc is long gone.
Can someone please take pictures of their stock overflow tank so I can have an idea of where it hits? How many different overflow tanks are there?
If rotating the compressor so the lines come in horizontal will work I can try to make that change, but I need to know for sure.
Is it possible to bend the lines slightly to make them work or is there no way?
As far as moving the compressor closer (inward) it is about as far in as I can get it, w/o it hitting the tensioner body and taking too much meat out of the bracket. Moving it down I run into the same issue, the compressor will get too close to the tensioner body. I can move it a tad but I doubt that would help with the lines, I would rather error on the side of caution and not sacrifice strength or rigidity.
Please let me know if there are any other issues.
Josh
Last edited by SUPERPOWERS; 08-26-2008 at 10:33 AM.
Ok, after some head scratching and talking to some members. Here is the synopsis.
I guess that I was confused. The AC lines don't hit the inner fender, they hit the spout on the overflow tank. However they are very close to the inner fender. So as of now an after market overflow tank will need to be used, or you will have to modify the factory tank or get custom AC lines. The purpose of the brackets was to make it so you wouldn't have to crack the AC lines, so I would use the after market overflow tank. You can get them for like $5 at the auto parts store. Also there is a possibility that the smaller tank from the earlier cars might fit??
Jon (3.1EyeCandy) I don't know why your lines hit the inner fender? Is your motor sitting in the engine bay level? There are currently five of these kits in third gens, 4 have cleared the inner fender and yours hit. One member said that he had to shim his motor 3/4" to get it to sit level in the engine bay.
What motor mounts are you guys using? Is there a difference in where the motor is placed between all of the kits? Do some of them raise or lower the engine?
The next option. I am going to modify the current design to re-clock the compressor to move the lines up and in. It will be alittle while before I find out if it will help or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J's T/A
This looks like a nice option, even with a little line tweaking it is still less work than running the stock LS compressor.
Thanks, I think that it works pretty well. With any swap as complex as an LSx swap you have to expect some modifications. I am just trying to make the process alittle less painful.
Behind the eight ball here but does the LS3 run the same type of accessory setup as the LS1 or is it different? Thinking of future setups here.
Any of the accessory packages will bolt up to any of the gen III and gen IV motors. As far as the LS3 corvette accessories, they are different than the LS1 f-body. I have brackets that work for the Corvette accessories too. The Corvette accessories are roughly 3/4" closer to the block so that might make it even tighter for the A/C lines.
Last edited by SUPERPOWERS; 08-26-2008 at 10:13 PM.
Josh - the motor is now removed, so the best I can give you is my observations and the few pictures that I took (see my picasa album here ). Looking at the photo you provided above, those are definitely pre-88 lines and what looks to me like indentations in his fender (mine has none there). I tried mocking up the 88+ lines again this last weekend and came to the same conclusion as before: the line going back to the dryer is too long & the metal section that connects to the compressor would hit or be uncomfortably close to the fender well. My motor was sitting a little forward, but was secured in the mounts (no transmission mounted) - so the situation with the A/C lines would not have gotten better had it been pulled down in the back.
I test fit a new 88+ overflow canister and the coolant hose spicket is in front of the compressor and low - which will work if your lines are not as close as what you show in the above picture. The 88 and prior canister's spicket was exiting the canister directly into the A/C compressor - which is why I bought the new canister. The engine is out, so any more pictures will have to wait. I may have taken a couple more than may show some additional detail - but they're on my folks' camera. For what it's worth - rotating the compressor /may/ help - as this would keep the A/C lines from pointing directly at the fender well...but I'm not 100% on that. I'll take some measurements of the lines next time I'm working on the car.
For now - here are the shots I have that show the detail.
Ya know - if Ace used 88+ lines and bent them, they could be that shape like they are in his picture. My 88+ definitely aren't that shape...but I wanted to be clear in what I'm saying.
I didn't find out about the overflow tank until I went to put that in weeks later. You can see where the lines go out passed the mounting points for the tank. I'm bent them in towards the compressor as much as I dare too. Remember, my system is still fully charged with R12 and was working great when I yanked the 305 out......
I think that rotating the compressor will pull the lines over next to it, allowing more room for the stock tank.
Jason, thanks for the pictures. Now people can start to get an idea of what the setup looks like on the car.
One other note to add. One of the reasons that the compressor was rotated the way it is, is so that the lines will clear the Corvette style LS1/LS6 fuel rail covers on some applications. I say with certainty that the f-body lines will clear though.
Let me know if you need any other pics. Hopefully you can see the mounting locations for the stock tank in the last pic. The lines and tank definitely are trying to occupy the same space.
I also have access to my dads 92 z28, that would show where the lines fall with the compressor in the stock location.... just a thought
have you guys ever seen the overflow tank that the LT1 cars use? The spot where the battery sits is cut out and then the tank is recessed and the battery sits on top of the tank and there is a spout that sticks up. I used it when I did the LT1 swap into my 85 Iroc.
Josh - you make a good point about clocking the compressor that way for FRCs (which I plan on running). I'll keep you updated about the custom lines I'll have made - as perhaps they can be an option for your kit if they're easilly reproducable.
Man I'm dying to get my wiring harness in....sure hope Speartech is worth the wait I've endured.
I am using the 4th gen overflow and it works great, I am LTx though, but there are others on the site running it. This bracket is one reason more to swap LSx next time!
This bracket is one reason more to swap LSx next time!
Thanks for the accessory info..
J's T/A, you have a pm!
Quote:
Originally Posted by J's T/A
I am using the 4th gen overflow and it works great, I am LTx though, but there are others on the site running it.
Can you post a picture for those that don't know what it looks like.
Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3.1EyeCandy
Josh - you make a good point about clocking the compressor that way for FRCs (which I plan on running). I'll keep you updated about the custom lines I'll have made - as perhaps they can be an option for your kit if they're easilly reproducable.
Yea the fuel rail covers were a big factor in the design, at lease for me it was.
keep me updated on the lines
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3.1EyeCandy
Man I'm dying to get my wiring harness in....sure hope Speartech is worth the wait I've endured.
The wait time is definitely worth it. He did my harness and it was sooooo easy to hook up. I suppose he is really busy, the number of swaps is growing by leaps and bounds.
Last edited by SUPERPOWERS; 08-29-2008 at 11:34 PM.
Here are the pics from that post. Also these tanks are pretty cheap. There is a brand new one on ebay for $39 to your door and they clean up the engine bay.
do these brackets you have made work on an ls1 with a corvette serpentine setup? what a/c compressor am i going to have to purchase? any help is much appreciated!!
do these brackets you have made work on an ls1 with a corvette serpentine setup? what a/c compressor am i going to have to purchase? any help is much appreciated!!
Yes they will work with the corvette serp setup. you can use your stock compressor if it is 85 and up. You wont even need to crack your A/C lines
you need a tighter belt. or you can loosen your power steering pump and move it up and out and loosen your alt and move it down and over. You can move the A/C compressor brackets up and over too. You would be surprised how much tighter you can get your belt by adjusting the accessories a tad. You might have needed a new tensioner too. I have see a few worn out ones that didn't have enough spring tension or that wandered.
Glad that they are working for you though. My own personal set is working great too. Even up to 7000 RPM!
The shop that worked on my car still has my extra pulley, and I'm hoping they didn't lose it. I may be calling ya Josh for a new pulley, washers, and bolt for pulley if they've lost it. All...most...there.
After a ton of time in design they are finally done. I fabricated a set of brackets that allows the use an R4 style compressor with my LS1. I designed brackets for the F-body accessories and the Corvette accessories. The stock stock A/C lines bolt right up with this setup. I designed these because there wasn't a good kit out there to address this issue. If anyone is interested I can make up a kit if you need one. The kit would include the brackets, spacers, hardware, smooth pulley, and serp belt. Please drop me a pm or e-mail me if you have any questions.
hope this helps a few of you out with your A/C questions on your swap.
so far I have 3 other guys on the club that have the brackets and they are all very happy.
I have been looking for a set of brackets like this to retain my R4 in my 87 retrofitting in a 99 LS1. Superb engineering job!
Could you build a set of these for me and how you prefer payment for this. Paypal? Much appreciated!
Leonard
I have been looking for a set of brackets like this to retain my R4 in my 87 retrofitting in a 99 LS1. Superb engineering job!
Could you build a set of these for me and how you prefer payment for this. Paypal? Much appreciated!
Leonard
I'm going to disagree with you there. Full serpentine driven accessories didn't begin until the '88 model year.
'87 was the change over year, as they had a serp driven alt and wp, but the ac and ps were v-belt driven.
Easy way to tell is by looking at which side the ac compressor is mounted. PS mounted AC compressors are serp belt driven, DS mounted compressors are V-belt driven
If in doubt, search ebay for those model years and you'll see what I'm talking about
well my bad. I remember my 85 Iroc having serp accessories but I guess that all of them weren't. I'm sure that StrokerZ can tell that serp compressor is needed for the kit. And I have to disagree on "It might not be worth it if you have to swap compressors" what other compressor is he going to run?, he can't run the stock LS1 compressor, and the Sanden setup is expensive. The worst case is he needs to get a serp compressor which new are $180 and used are about $50 and a set of A/C lines that go to the passenger side vs. the driverside. And I am sure that those are cheap at the junk yard too. Either way that is his decision. If he wants a set I will be happy to help if not it is no sweat off my back.
Just wanted to say I wasn't trying to step on your toes about your product. I own one of your bracket setups and it works great sans the ac hoses hitting the overflow tank.
What I'm attempting to say that if StrokerZ's whole point of buying your bracket is so he doesn't have to crack his lines on his current R12 setup, that it might not be worth it. There are people who bought that other companies bracket that didn't realize, nor were told, that it wouldn't work with their current v-belt compressors. I am just pointing that fact out.
It isn't difficult to swap out the compressors and hoses as you pointed out. Just something that should be factored into the whole equation.
-jason
__________________ -Jason
"Get this, no man with a good car needs to be justified."
yea I know that, we are cool. I just thought that it was apparent from the photo that a serp compressor was needed. I wonder if a serp clutch pack would fit on a v-belt compressor?
'87 was the change over year, as they had a serp driven alt and wp, but the ac and ps were v-belt driven.
Well, not to fan flames, merely setting the record straight:
'82-'85 were all V-belts; '86 & '87 were a mix of V-belts for A.I.R., AC & PS with a flat multi-groove belt (a short version of what is used for serpentine set-ups) for the alternator (which also went over the water pump); and '88 was the first year of all one serpentine belt. So, '88 would be the first year for a flat multi-groove pulley on the AC compressor. And, the AC & alternator did switch sides in '88.
'87 also had a different high pressure switch connector than '86-earlier.
But, hey, this is all custom stuff, anyway. Bottom line is you have to do whatever it takes to get your set-up running.
I had converted my v-belt/serpentine set up on the 87 to a full serperntine set up several years back using a compressor, and all the change over brackets and pulleys from a 1989 model year Camaro. It has worked flawless. Now that I am going LS1, it was only a natural to keep the R4 compressor, since there was no purpose to crack the lines on a perfectly running system.
I'm rounding up parts and like this option for my 91' Bird LS1 swap...it eliminates the need to notch the stock K member or buy tubular K Members that can't use support braces without effecting the alternator.
Please PM me with price and how long it will take to ship.
Got the brackets about a week ago. Very nice, professional fabrication work. I will be installing them soon, but very, very pleased with them.
Keep up the good work!
Got the brackets about a week ago. Very nice, professional fabrication work. I will be installing them soon, but very, very pleased with them.
Keep up the good work!
Let us know the year of your car and how well the fitment is with respect to hitting other parts.
Thanks
Got the brackets about a week ago. Very nice, professional fabrication work. I will be installing them soon, but very, very pleased with them.
Keep up the good work!
It's going on 2 months now - but they just billed the credit card so I'm hopeful I'll be making progress again soon. 
