When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
LTX and LSXPutting LT1s, LS1s, and their variants into Third Gens is becoming more popular. This board is for those who are doing and have done the swaps so they can discuss all of their technical aspects including repairs, swap info, and performance upgrades.
ok guys, i need to get some better pics, but i got my IROC back this week and here are a couple of pics of the new hood with the TVS2300 cut-out
i really like this look versus the cowl hood... i liked what we had done with the cowl hood but i guess in the end i just like the more stockish look better as i guess i am always thinking sleeper type look and this one obviously gives it away if you really look but it is still close to stock
also i went back to my refurbished stock 16" iroc wheels at this point, pretty much for the same reason, i just like the stock look. note that these are the ones i had widened in back to 9.5" so they have 275's on them. for the front i actually am running a 8" rear wheel with a .25" spacer since the brake kit pushed out the wheel from the stock position... this helps avoid a potential turning rub if you use the stock front rim with standard 245 tire
also i made an upgrade to my fuel line connection to the engine fuel rail using the connector shown on the right... this one positively threads the lock into the connector on the rail with no way for it to come off
i highly recommend doing this if you are using the prior type connector shown on the left... while i have not had any problem, i have heard about several people with this type of connection coming loose, a couple resulting in an engine bay fire that totaled their rides...
also just to be clear, the fuel rail fitting is 3/8"... i tend to buy a lot of parts and in the pic i inadvertently pulled one to photograph of the new type that is 5/16... the one actually used is 3/8" and is part number 644120
Last edited by alan91z28; 08-31-2013 at 06:36 AM.
Reason: clarify part number
Very impressive work Alan. I'd love to stop by sometime soon to see your cars in person. I've driven by a few times (relatives live beyond Union City), but didn't want to make a surprise visit.
Very impressive work Alan. I'd love to stop by sometime soon to see your cars in person. I've driven by a few times (relatives live beyond Union City), but didn't want to make a surprise visit.
just give me a heads up when you will be in the area and we can catch up on my projects... thanks
on the technical side, i have worked on the tuning, and one of the things i now have in good shape is i have real good coast down and idle stability... the idle is still higher than i want (850 or so) so still have more work to do, but i don't have any trouble with clutch in coast stalls, etc, which can get pretty annoying
one of the key things is getting the speed density to be functional vs just all MAF and i have that now working well below 1800 rpm where you need it for idle control
a key item to do this with GEN IV controls like the E67 i am using is a program that will translate the virtual VE table from the coefficients to a representative VE table that you can edit.
a big update was made to a public domain program, EQ <> VE Version 4, over on the hptuners board... if you are doing your own tuning on a GEN IV with hptuners, i highly recommend that you check this out, it is much improved compared to earlier versions
thanks cam, i like the way it is coming out... the stock look for me is what i like best
certainly all the reference information and great forum members who contribute all the information were an essential part of this build and i hope that i have helped as well others with my details in this thread...
there are a lot of good looking third gens on this forum, we are lucky that being able to drop in some LS power also gives us some real get up and go as well!
also i made an upgrade to my fuel line connection to the engine fuel rail using the connector shown on the right... this one positively threads the lock into the connector on the rail with no way for it to come off
i highly recommend doing this if you are using the prior type connector shown on the left... while i have not had any problem, i have heard about several people with this type of connection coming loose, a couple resulting in an engine bay fire that totaled their rides...
Alan, What size is the connection on your fuel rail? Looks like the P/N is 644110 or 644118? Those would be 5/16" right?
Im def upgrading to the screw retainer style. I had mine pop off and spray fuel everywhere during a test drive. And I just dont like those little plastic retainers. But I was pretty sure mine are 3/8". Now Im not sure, and I wont be near the car again any time soon to check it. Also switching to black for my new build. So Ill probably have to wait a while to get em.
Alan, What size is the connection on your fuel rail? Looks like the P/N is 644110 or 644118? Those would be 5/16" right?
Im def upgrading to the screw retainer style. I had mine pop off and spray fuel everywhere during a test drive. And I just dont like those little plastic retainers. But I was pretty sure mine are 3/8". Now Im not sure, and I wont be near the car again any time soon to check it. Also switching to black for my new build. So Ill probably have to wait a while to get em.
J.
jay it is 3/8" and is part number 644120 for the one in blue that i used... i out of habit buy extra parts and didn't think about it when i took the comparison pic in my post i pulled a 5/16 out, it is definitely 3/8... thanks for the question, i clarified my post above for future reference
Hmmm yeah those fuel adapters blowing off sure is spooky. I have a few on factory lines ( 4th gen tank ) that seem good but they are underneath. On the rail Im also using a factory line but it has metal springs instead of the plastic insert clip. NA though so not the same kind of fuel demands but....
For boosted builds there is one certainty. OVERKILL on the entire fuel system is the smartest money spent. Most boosted failures are fuel/tune related.
Hmmm yeah those fuel adapters blowing off sure is spooky. I have a few on factory lines ( 4th gen tank ) that seem good but they are underneath. On the rail Im also using a factory line but it has metal springs instead of the plastic insert clip. NA though so not the same kind of fuel demands but....
For boosted builds there is one certainty. OVERKILL on the entire fuel system is the smartest money spent. Most boosted failures are fuel/tune related.
You bringing this to LSfest?
i would like to go to LSfest... between family weekend plans this fall and work obligations though it is highly doubtful at this point for this year... i am hoping though to get it dyno'd again this fall, we'll see
Well now that winter is here and i have some time off for Christmas / New Years, I have been getting back into the swing of getting some upgrades going.
This winter is mainly going to be about my other project on rebuilding my first car i re-found which is in another thread, but i had some work to do on this one as well
One of the things that has been bugging me is like several others i have tire rub after my swap. I had resolved it from a driving standpoint by going to a smaller tire up front (225 / 50 /16) but I wanted to fix it. My problem was mainly with the drivers side.
So over the fall I order a lot of parts so i would have some options.
One of the things i was concerned about was did i have the BMR K - Member in completely square as it doesn't have locating pins so i bought a UMI Road Race K Member. I also bought several versions of adjustable A arms as well.
First off, the UMI Road Race K Member is a nice piece, however it will not mount up if you are using a stock LS3 oil pan like I am... the second tube interferes (see first pic, i kind of suspected this but i wanted to see how the unit lined up so didn't mind the in/out on the lift). In my particular case i reconfirmed the BMR piece was nice and square so just re-used what i had in as i didn't want to swap oil pans at this point for no gain.
So long story short i ended up using then a set of special adjustable Spohn A arms (i had them make me a set with the rear support tube moved forward so it would fit the BMR K member)... They were very helpful and i appreciate them making this set vs needing to modify either the k member or a arm myself
I installed this today and it was pretty much a breeze getting the wheels centered. In my case I basically needed to move my driver's wheel ~1/2" forward. I did that with the adjustable a arm by lengthening the rear spherical and shortening the front spherical. this moved it forward but kept it on the same track
On the passenger side I did also adjust the Spohn a -arm from their factory setting as i found it sat back a little bit when i put it on. Only a couple turns needed and i had it right where i wanted it
Obviously i need to reconfirm now alignment, etc but the good news is it seems like this issue is pretty much resolved and i can go back to normal tire profile on the front
Also when i say this was very easy to adjust i should mention of course i was doing this on one of my lifts so i could raise lower the car off the tires easily so it was no trouble to pull the pins on the a arms give them a turn and re-see how i liked it. The second and third pics are after i finished it this morning
ok guys, i need to get some better pics, but i got my IROC back this week and here are a couple of pics of the new hood with the TVS2300 cut-out
i really like this look versus the cowl hood... i liked what we had done with the cowl hood but i guess in the end i just like the more stockish look better as i guess i am always thinking sleeper type look and this one obviously gives it away if you really look but it is still close to stock
Talk about putting a modern twist on a classic look. Love it. Very creative and very well executed what you did with the hood.
one of the things i wanted to improve on in terms of ground clearance as well as general appearance was the exhaust.
the 4" exhaust i was running cat back flows great and has a nice rumble, but hangs a little low and the exit pipe is low enough you see some of it from the drivers side and back. also the 4" portion is not stainless
i ended up getting one of Hawks full set of headers / 3 1/2" stainless exhaust kits... i already had the same headers from Bruce, but since i had welded connection bands to suite my custom exhaust, i just bought the complete kit (i will re-use the previous headers on my '88 rebuild)
i have to say this header kit from front to back fit great without any issue. the only custom thing i needed to do was weld in two more O2 bungs for my wideband gauge and then also a spare one for use on the dyno... overall quality, fit, and finish A+++
attached are a couple of pics of the install... i really like the hide away exhaust at the back and also it has good ground clearance, i haven't touched down on anything to date
i also needed to make sure my alignment was good as i had put in the adjustable a arms, etc over the winter...
i bit the bullet and got a set of intercomp racing alignment tools. their tools are first class. these tools allow complete dialing in of toe / caster / camber... it is so easy to move the wheels for the caster measurement from +15 to -15 by just pushing on the tire with your hand when the tires are sitting on these roll plates
their digit gauge does all the math and is a snap to use. while i will probably eventually take it to an alignment shop, i dialed it in easily and have been driving around with the response being great so practically i know i am on the mark
so right now i have been pretty much been just enjoying how fun this Camaro is to drive around...
i have also been doing a lot of datalogging and tuning as i like doing that, but pretty much just a lot of fun spirited driving and enjoyment
one thing i did recently change is go from the tires i was running 245 firehawks and 275 toyo tq drag radials (as shown in the attached pics) to all 255 toyo r888 autocross tires... i didn't give up much practical tread width in the back and all around these are stickier tires for spirited driving... they also fit on the standard 16X8 rim
i really like how the overall look has ended up... i do keep thinking about adding back a ~15mm red stripe above the GFX but not sure yet... i get a lot of people doing the double take on the hood cut out as it is nice and sleeper to a large degree until you really focus... and of course you can't beat having ~600 rwhp on tap!
thanks for the nice comments, i am very Blessed and try not to forget it and keep overall things in perspective
hopefully some of my documentation of this and my other build will be helpful to others... this is a great forum and wrenching on cars can build great family bonds, friendships, etc... all those things are the biggest reward out of projects like this
Well I was looking at doing an ls3 swap and after reading this I REALLY want to now haha. Think I will start with the 525hp and 4l70e. Hope the wife doesn't mind. There are quite a few nice thirdgens on here and yours is definately one of my favorites.
Last edited by Citation X; 09-04-2014 at 05:08 PM.
So did you ever make it back to the dyno after the new injectors etc...
I recall the initial 380 or so...then. 448.....then after the tvs 566hp. ...did you ever dyno again after the new injectors etc? Or did I just miss it.....
Unfortunately, i didn't make it back to the dyno yet, i really wanted to this summer, but time got away from me with everything going on... i am going to shoot for late spring / early summer next year
Also just as an update, as my previous posts show i am using the rear drag bags from air lift. i like the way they work but since i am using a 9 inch rear they seemed to make the ride height too high as the spring retainer are taller on the moser than the original gm 10 bolt and cause the bag to sit higher
anyways i did call and ask if they made a shorter air bag vs the one that comes up for the standard 3rd gen. they were very helpful and gave me the part number and i quickly got a set from summit this summer.
the enclosed pics gives you a view of the higher spring retainer and the new part number and comparison
well, it has been a long winter, my son and i have been working on my '88 camaro re-build that is a subject of another thread, but this weekend i got some new wheels to try for my '85 iroc.
i have always been interested in the gta mesh type wheel and with Hawks coming out with a 17X9 that seemed like just the ticket to get some better rubber on the road on more power to the ground so i got Bruce to send me a set.
Just got them mounted up and i have to say IMO they are really great. As you know from my earlier posts of have tried a lot of wheels from Centerline, Billet Specialties, CCW, etc and i keep going back to the OEM 3rd gen look... now you can get bigger wheels with that 3rd gen OEM look!
I used Toyo Proxes R1R 275-40 R17
The finish of the wheels out of the box was fantastic and they use a standard center cap. This allows the use of a standard Z28 label in the center.
My guess is Bruce will be selling a lot of these wheels.
Still not quite spring yet up here in PA so just had to look at it on the lift, but i am excited on how it is turning out and can't wait to get them on the road, i think it will be a little more traction for me and that 600 rwhp!
I've been lurking and watching your build for a while now. I must say you've done an amazing job and your car is definetly easy on the eyes. I have always liked the GTA mesh wheels. With that said, I'm afraid (in my opinion) I like the stockers more. They seemed to fit the car better. But don't let me spoil it, it is still beautiful.
I've been lurking and watching your build for a while now. I must say you've done an amazing job and your car is definetly easy on the eyes. I have always liked the GTA mesh wheels. With that said, I'm afraid (in my opinion) I like the stockers more. They seemed to fit the car better. But don't let me spoil it, it is still beautiful.
thanks, i know what you are saying! i have tried a lot of wheels and have always come back to the IROCs!
i do like these mesh ones, the killer on the irocs is tire selection. i had a pair of irocs widened to 16 X 9.5 but only a couple drag radials available.
maybe i can convince bruce to do a set of IROCs in 17 in the future
Any plans to put a proper bias ply slick on a 15" wheel to give it a fighting chance at hooking? Even tire manufacturers say that a radial and a clutch are not a good combination.
I really like them, always been a fan of those wheels from the factory, a 17" version makes them that much better in my opinion. May have to look into them for my firebird.
Any plans to put a proper bias ply slick on a 15" wheel to give it a fighting chance at hooking? Even tire manufacturers say that a radial and a clutch are not a good combination.
well in truth, not really... i hear what you are saying and it would be interesting at the track but since this is much more of a street machine and i want an OEM style wheel that also allows bigger brakes i am really happy with this wheel development from hawks
well, it has been a long winter, my son and i have been working on my '88 camaro re-build that is a subject of another thread, but this weekend i got some new wheels to try for my '85 iroc.
i have always been interested in the gta mesh type wheel and with Hawks coming out with a 17X9 that seemed like just the ticket to get some better rubber on the road on more power to the ground so i got Bruce to send me a set.
Just got them mounted up and i have to say IMO they are really great. As you know from my earlier posts of have tried a lot of wheels from Centerline, Billet Specialties, CCW, etc and i keep going back to the OEM 3rd gen look... now you can get bigger wheels with that 3rd gen OEM look!
I used Toyo Proxes R1R 275-40 R17
The finish of the wheels out of the box was fantastic and they use a standard center cap. This allows the use of a standard Z28 label in the center.
My guess is Bruce will be selling a lot of these wheels.
Still not quite spring yet up here in PA so just had to look at it on the lift, but i am excited on how it is turning out and can't wait to get them on the road, i think it will be a little more traction for me and that 600 rwhp!
Hell yes, those look cool, its about time, but he should have made more sizes like 17x9.5 and a 17x11 too for 315's....
Looks awesome though, need to drop it like 1.5 in F&R to complete the look!!
well in truth, not really... i hear what you are saying and it would be interesting at the track but since this is much more of a street machine and i want an OEM style wheel that also allows bigger brakes i am really happy with this wheel development from hawks
you have the power to do a lot of damage on that radial...recipe for disaster if you spend much time at the track. i see you're in PA. where abouts? I'll be racing at Beaver Springs next month. My group is also going to represent at the GM Nationals at Carlisle. would be an honor to have ya
thanks, i know what you are saying! i have tried a lot of wheels and have always come back to the IROCs!
i do like these mesh ones, the killer on the irocs is tire selection. i had a pair of irocs widened to 16 X 9.5 but only a couple drag radials available.
maybe i can convince bruce to do a set of IROCs in 17 in the future
thanks again
Back in the day...aka...1989, I had a Black 88' Formula 350 w/ Black GTA wheels and limo tint, tinted windsheild and GTS light covers..at night if I killed the lights, the car would dissapear..I ditched a ton of cops in that car...lol..."Bank Robber Special" In 1990, I had a White IROC-Z Convert. manual w/ black top and I sprayed the GTA wheels white...It looked ****in SICK!!!!!! All my pics burned in a house fire and I bum out all the time that I don't even have ONE!!!! Especially of my 1981 Corvette Convert 4-speed....yes that's right, 1981 convertible....hmmmmmm how did he have that when GM never made a Vette vert in 1981, We bought an 81' Vette 4-speed slammed in the rear, had only 1200 orig mi. then bought a 74 vert smashed in the front and clipped the 81' w/ the 74' back!!!! Car was white with white top and burgundy leather! Sold the car to Verdone's in Scottsdale AZ in 1985. I curse my dad everyday for that one!! Car was awesome and looked OEM!!
as posted above I have never been completely happy with the front wheel placement, ie tire centering in the fender.
I ended up deciding I wanted to address this in a different manner then the adjustable a-arms I had made so I decided to switch out a bunch of front end suspension parts as it was nagging me that maybe still it was the bmr k member not quite centered side to side
I ended up getting another UMI road race k member and also decided to dump the coil overs and go back to main springs (more later on that)
first thing was had to accommodate the UMI k-member piece with a different oil pan and went to the LS Holley pan for that
relatively straight forward to swap, of course I have a lift. I blocked up on the engine crank and transmission case and basically took the front suspension completely off and then swapped the oil pan
the holley kit was very complete and documentation was great. it uses a slightly modified ls1 windage tray (make one notch) and LS3 dipstick which in my case was already there
for the new suspension parts I decided to go with UMI for the k member (road race) and also the a-arms
for the springs as I mentioned I was moving away from the coil overs but still wanted adjustability so I went with the new Detroit Speed adjustable weight jacks. these are fairly new to the market and seem to be a well built piece. one thing though is that they need to have an anti-spin feature like the original k member offers in the pocket (ie they have a pin that mates to a hole in the original spring pocket)
to get this anti-spin function with the UMI I needed to modify and make this feature as illustrated in the photos. note that the large center hole is for clearance with the ball joint bolt on the center of the Detroit Speed jack plate. the small hole mates with their pin for the anti-rotation
here are a couple of shots with everything mounted back up
with the holley LS swap oil pan, the UMI road race k-member easily clears now.
it was not hard to get the Detroit Speed weight jacks to mount up with the UMI A-Arms and modified spring perches. also went with new koni struts
the adjustment to the front height is easy as jacking the weight jack is accomplished with a 1/2" extension that fits into the Detroit Speed jack stud through the bottom center opening in the UMI A-Arm
and here are a couple of shots as the Iroc now appears with the new suspension installed, alignment done, roll'n on hawks 17" mesh wheels
all in all I like this set-up. everything now fits nicely and aligned well. drives great.
one thing that I have observed though is that the weight jack can make some noise compared to the standard spring set-up. if you get a good bounce you will hear it. I have some thoughts on how to further limit the movement but I am going to ride around with it before I do anything else
also just as another general note, the UMI k-member does position the LS engine slightly forward and lower than the BMR k member so I will need to do a little adjustment to my hood cut-out to have it perfect again
for the past couple years I have been working on other 3rd gen projects, but always enjoy driving my black IROC... I got it out late this year around the 4th of july and always like photos of it by my flag pole and had some good drives with it over that long weekend.
the next weekend though after winding it up through the bottom gears, boost went boom, and I needed to coast to a stop and get the flatbed home! so the next generation of this ongoing project starts there!
so first thing was I had to get it on one of my lifts and of course with no power it can make it more challenging... however a set of go jacks and small winch make that not too much of a problem... the go jacks are a really great design and I can easily push cars around my garage by myself with them
so wondering what went wrong, a first clue was that pulling out the dip stick revealed the oil level was about twice as high as it should be... of course that meant that the internal damage had allowed engine coolant to flood into the oil pan... it was so violent and an immediate engine lock up the oil and water when I drained it where not mixed. nice flow of water out, then after that came the oil
there was a quarter size hole in the side of the engine block around the engine mounting point on the passenger side... while it was hard to tell exactly what was going on with my bore scope, between the hole in the block and what I saw on the bore scope screen at that point I was thinking this will be a winter project
so long story short, piston number 6 gave up the ghost and debris from that seized the engine pretty much instantly and twisted the rod / busted the block!
the head is messed up of course as well with a broken valve … it was interesting had much debris went into #8 from the #6 failure.
after this initial diagnosis in july I pretty much let it sit... I am setting up to get the engine pulled maybe this weekend and starting to think about options. I would like to have it ready to drive this summer, but I also have some other family priorities so this project isn't on top at this point. so if it makes it great, if not I have other 3rd gens I can drive this summer.
one thing I definitely will be doing is stripping out the GMPP E67 based crate motor controller and harness. it was great to learn on, but I have not liked its massive bulk and some other things I did with this being my first LS swap since I did it. I am thinking about using either Holley HP or LS1 type 411 ECM... I want to go cable drive. I like the holley hp I have used, but they seem a little fragile (I haven't had a problem myself) and I wish they also allowed MAF tuning. so we will see. for engine I am thinking naturally aspirated LS3 based 418, will see
08-03-2013, 06:12 AM
