ok so i finnally made up my mind i dont want to keep the 350 in my rs i have a co worker who is saling both a ls1 from a 2000 camaro or an 07 lq4 from a hummer truck my main goal is to get a straight forward answer on which i should get to put in my 92 rs either the lq4 (if im able to put it in my car) or the ls1 im also looking to beat my friends gto so which will take less money to get me there and still have an everyday driver

I wish i had an LQ4 in my camaro rather then the LS1. Iron block isnt all that much heavier unless you gotta carry it

Not to mention 4" bore means alot more head selection

If the LS1 is complete with accessories and all then I say start with that. Read sticky

yea there both complete and ready to be put in i think the price difference between the two is about $200

I personally go with the LQ4. Better heads 210cc/75cc I/E runner volume (LS6 head with larger 71cc chamber).

LS1 uses a 200cc/70cc I/E runner volume with a 67cc chamber volume.

The LQ4 will have the full float thermal barrier coated piston tops and coated skirts.
325hp@5200rpm/365 lb/ft torque@4000rpm
Remember this is a 2007 engine and is rated using the new SAE CERTIFIED power rating system.

LS1
305 horsepower @ 5200 rpm and 335 lb/ft of torque at 4000 rpm

TYhe LQ4 will have the higher flowing truck intake. This intake ouflows the LS1 intake, but does sit higher than the LS1 intake.

LQ4 364 cubes vs LS1 346 cubes, stronger iron block.

peace
Hog

Personally, I'd select the LQ4 as well - in addition to what Hog stated above, starting in '07 (I believe) the truck cylinder blocks were improved as well, with added strength & things like "windows" between cylinders to reduce pumping losses.

(It's possible that it was just the L92s, but I really don't think so.)

i am looking at doing a lsx swap also. will a ls t-56 bolt up to any lsx series engine? thanks

yes as long as its an ls series t56. the lt one is different

I didnt notice the 07 part.... Do the hummers come with VVT and the L92 heads? If so then definitely go that route, ditch the VVT and stuff a decent cam with supporting mods and tune in there and run 10's

thanks that pretty much the type of answers i was looking for as with all you guys usually when you post sumn u get that guy that thinks he knows everything and gives you this long breakdown and throughout the whole thing still doesnt answer the question lol..... but my last question is is there anyways i could find on here what i need to do to properly install that motor in my 3rd gen is there a blueprint or anything or is it pretty simple just a few mods like oil pan and etc....
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i know that it Will bolt right in to your silverado, tahoe or suburban for sure

I don't think that the LQx engines have VVT. The heads are possible though.

If you look at the LS swap sticky at the top of the forum, that gives you most of the info. Same stuff applies to the LQ engines as the LS engines.

STICKY!!!!




No really thank you for such a polite way to throw digs at us for trying to help you out. Thats a great way to start when your looking for help to do something as daunting as this and you cant even follow simple instruction very short winded like READ STICKY from my first post. Good luck

lol wow what are you talking bout im not sure how u took it but i was actually thanking you guys for the help not bein sarcastic..... dont be so insecure about yourself its just a forum.... and usually when someone says thanks alot of times they mean it and again .... THANKS!!!

Just as an "FYI" - it doesn't help your cause if you get annoyed/sarcastic/whatever with the people who have done this already. Cam wasn't saying that to be a jerk - answering the same questions all the time gets to be a bit annoying, especially when they're basic questions that are answered in the sticky that was created for just that reason.

Good luck with your swap.

i'm partial to LS1s becuase they're what I used in my swap.

Although the LQ4 flows better, I can always buy cnc ported 5.3 or ls1 heads for 250 something a pop, but i cant pull weight out of my motor. I'm not sure the initial 20 hp difference, which is probably mostly from the intake design (i dont know that for a fact its just a hunch) is worth exchanging for that kind of weight mod which could lower an E/T by a tenth or so.

thats the only point i really have for the difference. Either way they're awesome motors.

Thats not very decent or respectful. No one is forced to help or post anything for your own needs so if someones going to take the time to try and help you then YOU should have more consideration.

Its not my fault if you cant read and passive aggressive flaming isnt going to help your cause any further. Thanks alone would have saved your bacon but the "advice" you offer is not required bub. Lots of luck

you said he had he had a ls1 and a lq4 for sale... might i ask how much he wants for the ls1 if you decide to get the lq4 i have a truck and a cherry picker id come and get it if its a reasonable distance.

Did you quote a magazine? Everyone knows the ls1 makes around 350 horsepower and as much torque. The lq4 intake does not outflow the ls1 it will make more low end power (not much) due to the longer runners but thats about it. The iron block is stronger? Not completely true. I have never heard of a properly built ls1, ls6, ls2 or other lsx alum block break due to power level. That is a statement by guys who want to justify the weight increase.

The lq4 head is NOT an ls6 head. It has a similar style, but it is not the same head. The reason the 6.0 heads are popular is because the combustion chambers are great for boost.

Do us all a favor and get your facts straight before you give advice to someone.

/rant

80sbaby,

If weight is a concern get the ls1. My Trans Am weighed 3340 with the ls1/t56 combo. If you could care less, get the lq4. Not only is the bore bigger, but you can stroke an iron 6.0 to 408ci. You can also sell the 6.0 heads to the boost junkies on ls1tech for $200-$300 dollars.

yea the guy works in hollywood doing movies i guess and he had to pull the motors out of the cars for stunts or something like that but he has 3 lq4's that he pulled out of 3 2007 hummers with less than 1000 miles i believe he wants 1600 each and an ls1 complete he pulled out a 99 z28 for 1400 i believe but i think he sold all the lq4s by now ill ask today
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thanx phx1987

excuse me? everything I stated is FACT. You need to check your ego. Just because my postcount is tiny, you automatically think that I dont know anything? Very bad assumption on your part.

No I was quoting ACTUAL Gm power ratings. Yes I do know that the LS1's dyno from 280rwh-310rwhp, which puts them at about 340-370 at the engine. If the LS1 was in production today, we would really see what they outputted due to the SAE Certified power/toique spec. Everyone knows that GM de-rated the Fbody LS1 simply so the Y-body Vette appeared more powerful. Actually installed in a vehicle, the Y body would outpower the F body due to the Vettes much better exhaust and better intake ducting.

The truck intake most certainly outflows and outpowers the LS1 intake, an is right there with the LS6 intake.

I'll show some dyno proof.
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...ock/index.html

Its a commonly known fact that the STOCK iron blocks are stronger. The block isnt going tio break when high power is applied, the block will flex causing crank/rod/bearing failure. You dont HEAR of the blocks failing because they dont, they flex much more easily than iron, making the failure apear to be due to a different component.
Why do you think guys running high boost on aluminum(and iron) blocks aere running main cap girdles?
To keep the mains from moving around as the blocks flex. With a performance oriented block, like the LSX iron or C5R block this flex is MUCH less as these are built from superior materials/designs.


the Lq4/LQ9 truck is in fact an LS6 head design with a larger combustion chamber. Of cousre they arent the same exact head, if they were the same head, they would have the same casting number. They dont. Do you really think GM is going to make a whole bunch of very differenthead designs for the same engine family? Well they dont.
The ONLY difference is the chamber. The reason they are so popular is because they flow better than the LS1 head. And yes, they are more boost friendly.

Grab a set and set them side by side, you'll see that there arent any differences, except in the chamber.

YOU are the one who needs to get their facts straight.

peace
Hog

You ask what engine you should use, I answered you with support to my arguement. You only asked 1 single question. condensed from your unpunctuated drivvle, "what engine should I get". I answered it.

You call me a know it all, then write lol and expect the insult to be forgot.

Well here is a little experiment,


80sbaby, you have the IQ of an unplugged toaster, lol, thanks.

Using your mentality, that shoudlnt be insulting, but it is.( and just so happens to be true)

Have fun with your install, with your attitude I'm sure there will be lots of people who want to help you.

Bye bye

peace
Hog

how to make friends and influence people, eh Phoenix? lol

In an effort to keep some facts straight the truck intake does NOT make more peak horsepower than the LS6 but it does produce considerably more torque below 5000RPM

Heres some dyno results directly comparing them

http://www.performancetrucks.net/for...d.php?t=392089

i agree with this 100%, the truck intake does NOT make better peak power numbers.
than the truck intake. Flow numbers also correlate with this.
Thanks for the clarification.

1/4 mile times between the LS6 intake and the truck intake are within 1 tenth and less than 1mph. There are better ways to pick up power than by swapping the truck intake for the LS6 piece.

peace
Hog

i'd go with the ls1.

you'll most likely need fbody accessories to run this in your car, as the truck accessories stick out farther.

you will need an ls1 fbody oil pan, windage tray, and pickup tube.

also the stock ls1 exhaust manifolds will work with 3rd gen cars, i am not sure about the truck manifolds.

when it's time to go bigger, the LQ series shortblocks can be had for ~$400 used. all of the ls1 stuff will bolt right to it. also the LQ engines are gen 4, which means the plugs for the injectors are different than LS1s...among other things.

IMO the cheapest and easiest way would be to use the ls1. buy the engine complete, drop the whole thing in, intake to oil pan, and drive it. no oil pan switching, no buying extra parts, etc.

That's good to see. Even on a stock LS1, the LS6 intake makes more power than LS1 intake.

Would be interesting to see one more intake compared - LS2. Understood that would take a different TB, but the comparisons would still be interesting.

an ls6 intake will outflow an ls2 intake stock for stock. however, a ported ls2 intake/tb will outflow a stock ls6/tb setup. i think anyone looking for a better LSX intake and not using a single plane in a 3rd gen is a fool. i see nothing wrong with the truck intake for most folks, especially given the "gain" to be had by switching to an ls1/6. parish is going 9s with a stock 5.3 longblock and intake...granted it's in a fairmont that probably weighs 2,500lbs, it's the idea. he can push 18 psi through it and get down the track just fine.

Really? If you knew the ls1 made more than 305, why wouldn't you say so instead of quoting GM marketing numbers?
Flow numbers do not equal power.


Then why bring up that iron blocks are stronger?
Yes, iron is stronger than aluminum, but should that sway his decision for a street build? NO. Did he say, "I'm building a 1500 rwhp motor, what block should I use?" No, he didn't.

It is an ls6 design, but not an ls6 head with a 71 chamber as you stated.

Along with the LS2 car manifold, it would interesting to see the LS2 truck intake included.

peace
Hog

If you knew the ls1 made more than 305, why wouldn't you say so instead of quoting GM marketing numbers?
Good point, I should have stated that the LS1 was underrated, esp since I knew the 2007 LQ4 couldnt be due to the new SAE certified power/torque specs.


Flow numbers do not equal power.
No, no they dont. But if there is higher power on a dyno, as well as a higher flow reading of a part, the increased flow reading.


Then why bring up that iron blocks are stronger?
Yes, iron is stronger than aluminum, but should that sway his decision for a street build? NO. Did he say, "I'm building a 1500 rwhp motor, what block should I use?" No, he didn't.

My point is, the actual blocks dont show a failure, their flexing causes the internal components to fail.
No he didnt say he was building a 1500rwhp engine. Why limit yourself in a street application? Anything far over 500 hp will case movement in a stock GM aluminum block. This is why the C5R is made of a much stronger aluminum, that will withstand sustained 570hp/640 lb/ft torque. If the stock aluminum blocks were so strong, why make the C5/C6R block? The answer for reliability. Say he wanted to evebtually build a 500hp daily driver, I would rather have the stiffer cast iron block, so I can enjoy that engine for hundreds of thousands of miles.




It is an ls6 design, but not an ls6 head with a 71 chamber as you stated.[/quote]
Actually it is an LS6 with a different sized chamber, but since the ACTUAL head used in an LS6 head application has a smaller chamber, its not called an LS6 head.
If you filled the chambers of a set of LQ4/9 chambers to LS6 specs, you would have and LS6 head. They are 1 in the same, EXCEPT for the chamber volumes. You would get identical port flows, and power outputs if you bolted BOTh sets on the same engine.
In the newer trucks, the 4.8(LY2) and the 5.3(LMG) use LS6 heads as well, but since they werent installed on LS6 engines, they arent called LS6 heads, even though in actuality they are LS6 heads.
Its called cross product compatibility.


the guy asked which engine he should get, I gave him the reasons why I thought he should get the more improved, newer, stronger engine. So I did.

peace
Hog

bottom line is most bang for ur buck the LQ4 wins out of GEN III motors,
1. Idiots want to charge 3 times as much for the LS1 just cause "its the vette motor"...LQ4s are way cheaper cause they are just "truck engines"
2. Hey "theres no replacement for displacement" so if u can have more cubes for less money y not?
3. L92 HEADS!!! While the 317 casting heads are pretty damn good, u can step up to some L92 heads cheap since the LQ4 has the bigger 4in bore, and well those poor lil LS1 boys cant....


and phoenix lay off of the nit picking on hog, he was very helpful and nothing he said was out right untrue, ur just being an errogant @$$, is uncalled for and hey being an *** is my job i dont need the competition....

sounds good igotta355z28......

while this is a decent opinion of the engines, you are forgetting a few key elements...

ls1 vs lq4 - you still need to purchase ls1 oil pan, windage tray, and pickup tube to make it work in your 3rd gen - $125 on the cheap side. ls1 accessories are not cheap, and have you seen an underdrive crank pulley for a truck motor? then factor in the time required to buy the extra parts, remove the stock truck motor parts, then install the proper ones for the swap. and you'd also be ahead with an lsX intake, should you want to cam it.

no replacement for displacement - true, but the ls1s almost full point increase in compression easily offsets the 17 cubes. i've seen ls1 engines with ~70k miles on them for less than $1,000. not exactly 3x more than the same offering of an lq4. a bolt-on ls1 engine will run circles around a bolt-on lq4. however, the lq9 can hold it's own fairly well due to the increase in compression AND cubes..but naturally they are more expensive.

L92 heads - you'd be money ahead to buy the ls1 which has already has accessories and oil pan etc, then buy a LQx shortblock only for <$400 when the time comes to rebuild. all of the ls1 parts will bolt to the lq blocks. plus the L92 heads aren't all they're cracked up to be. i have yet to see one "stock" L92 head do anything a stock cathedral port can't. 243 heads, even in stock trim, will go a LONG way and can be had for $400 complete.

not knocking your theory, just sharing my ideas..

^^^^ you have very valid points, its a trickey subject. i guess for bolt in and go, LS1 if u find an afordable one, For a build LQ4. The accesories IMO are the biggest deal breaker on the LQ4, those puppies get expensive. Its real hard to say what is better i guess just depends on the situation. My personal preferance is the LQ4 but i see the LS1 as a more viable option the more i think about it.....O what the hell LS2 BABY! YEAH!!! LOL....

The LQ4 has a bigger bore and will flow more cfm with the same set of heads.

this thread made my penis soft

Id have to agree with choosing the ls1 over the lq4.For simply answering the original question of which to get if applicable and will be able to beat your friends gto with less money.Ls1 is the answer for ease of the swap without having to buy all the fbody accessories,manifolds,intake which are quite expensive when you add them up.That same money you save from not going with the lq4 first can be spent on a cam and small upgrades.An ls1 thirdgen with a cam and supporting cheap mods will give a gto depending on which year gto a very good run for its money.And if the ls1 starts to die,then yank it out and swap everything onto an lq4/9 which can be had cheap for just a block...including any mods you had on the ls1 and you will be that much faster.

And really guys..no sense in arguing about finer details.Agree to disagree and leave it at that,both have valid points.

To the OP, ares these full complete engine and trans with the harness and computer?What are your true goals for the car itself besides beating a gto.Is it a daily driver,street/strip,weekend warrior or cruiser.I think you should look more indepth before making a decision..and take a goooood look at your wallet lol and how soon do you want it done.My ls1 swap was done in 4days minus having my y pipe made since I cant afford longtube headers.Just my

You are telling people to "agree to disagree" about a subject from a post that occured 3 years ago.
I think 3 years was enough time to cool off.

peace
Hog

Does it really matter.Im aware the post was made 3yrs ago thanks.And I was speaking in general that arguing can be very pointless in the forums.I didnt say you specifically or anyone else.That wasnt the main point of my post, it was for other ppl that may read this thread searching for similar answers.I know I came across it when I was thinking of the same thing 8 months ago.Now Im sharing my opinion after the fact incase it might help someone else.

Did this guy even do the swap? Its would have been better to get the 6.0 block and throw on the l92 heads and L76 intake with a good cam.

Sure didnt appear that you realized that the thread was 3 years old, esp. when you ask the OP " full complete engine and trans with the harness and computer?", and "I think you should look more indepth before making a decision..and take a goooood look at your wallet lol".

I never said that you pointed myself or anyone else out.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

peace
Hog

Anytime buddy

Apparently not...

EVERYONE is willing to tell you how to make it go fast, few are willing to tell you how to make it fit....

I can help a little bit with the trans fitment.
Since the GEN 3 SBC will bolt right up to any 700r4/4l60/4l60e that originally had a GEN 1 (TBI/TPI/Xfire/carbed)/GEN 1E Vortec 305/350 or GEN 2 LT1 350-L99 4.3V8 or LT4 so far as bellhousing to engine mounting goes, thats teh easy part. But there are differences between the input shafts that require some parts to mount up a newer GEN 3 application 4l60e/65e/70e.
If you would like to instal a GEN 3 engine in front of the original 700r4/4l60/60e then you can use this kit.
GM p/n GM p/n 12621399 gets you the flexplate, 6 longer bolts and crankshaft spacer all for thebargain basement price of $64.14
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/stor...roduct_ID=2399

If you want to install a GEN1/1E/2 engine in front of a newer GEN 3 application 4l60e/65e/70e transmission, this kit will accomplish this.
$198.
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/stor...-P1812C43.aspx

I dont have any other install info. Sorry.

peace
Hog