6.0L LSX/T56 swap in 1991 Z28 convertible *Test Fire 11/21*
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6.0L LSX/T56 swap in 1991 Z28 convertible *Test Fire 11/21*
I'll write everything I do with this swap here in this thread. I'm going to be using knowledge from a lot of really nice people such as Sheldon who has also done an LQ4 swap in his Camaro. I finally picked up the block, the wiring harness, and computer tonight. I think I got a really good deal on it for $950, complete from intake to oil pan.
My next task is that I will be collecting LS1 parts such as an intake manifold, accesory brackets and accesories, etc. I found all the brackets for $50 locally as well as a cheap LS1 intake manifold ($40). I was going to try and pick up an LS6 intake but I think that will have to wait for further down the road, as it is somewhat expensive and can be changed easily.
Here she is sitting next to my Z, her soul mate.
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Yep, the LQ4 is an iron block 6.0L, and since mine is a 2001 it came with aluminum 317 series heads, or at least it should. I'll have to double check that this week sometime. And my plan is a T56, and later down the road heads and cam. I want to get it in the car and running before I jack around with modding the motor.
Good Idea. That should be fun. If I do a swap, it will be LS1. No point because I should be around 400hp and gobbs of torque with my L98.
I do enjoy watching these swaps though. I would like to pick up a project and do a swap + Spray and see how fast I can get it going mainly stock with an Ls1 or a LQ4.
Yep, the LQ4 is an iron block 6.0L, and since mine is a 2001 it came with aluminum 317 series heads, or at least it should. I'll have to double check that this week sometime. And my plan is a T56, and later down the road heads and cam. I want to get it in the car and running before I jack around with modding the motor.
Believe me, the car will be on the road a day before you get the itch to mod it Likely one of the most expensive bugs to get bitten by
Yea I know. I just have a crap ton of stuff to do with this block before it's even ready to go in the car. I am going to go ahead and take off the top end of the motor and make sure all the pistons, rings, valves, etc are in good shape. I'll also replace the oil pan with an Fbody pan, possibly have some head work done, and put the LSX intake on it.
I'm assuming it is easier to rewire the harness while it is completely disconnected from the motor? I know I'll have to remove all that nest of wiring to get the motor work done anyways, but was thinking I might want to get the splicing and crap done while it's off the motor too.
Yea I know. I just have a crap ton of stuff to do with this block before it's even ready to go in the car. I am going to go ahead and take off the top end of the motor and make sure all the pistons, rings, valves, etc are in good shape. I'll also replace the oil pan with an Fbody pan, possibly have some head work done, and put the LSX intake on it.
I'm assuming it is easier to rewire the harness while it is completely disconnected from the motor? I know I'll have to remove all that nest of wiring to get the motor work done anyways, but was thinking I might want to get the splicing and crap done while it's off the motor too.
I would avoid pulling your pistons out if you can. The rings cant be used once their out, its a painstaking task to measure ring gaps, get them all clocked and stay in the correct position when you install them.
LS series motors also need the head bolts replaced when you un bolt them
Hey Sheldon, what intake manifold did you use? LS1, LS6, other? And you did splice in the truck wiring harness correct, not an LS1 fbody harness?
you can use a truck intake which flows better than regular ls1 intake, or even better u can use truck 90mm intake which flows just as well a ls6 but cheeper, obviously larger than the ls6. but last resort would be the c5 sealed ls1 intake, they flow a tad better than the egr fbody manifold and look just like a ls6
also mill your heads, .040 will put u around 10:1 scr on a stock lq4 with stock head gaskets, if your block is 04+ then it will be theshort bolt version, and the correct bolts will be needed.
Last weekend I got the block all torn down. My buddy Mike came over and we tore it up. I was pleased to find no sludge and no broken internals. Everything looked great. Even the cam and lifters looked really good.
What began as a complete lift-out motor from a 2500 HD Silverado is now a bare block sitting with only the cam and crank in it. Those would have been taken out today also, but I had a hard time getting the balancer off, so I couldn't get the front cover off. Someone suggested I try renting a gear puller from AutoZone, which I'm going to do later this week. Otherwise I'm looking for opinions on how to get it off.
So now I have a small list of things to get done before I put it back together:
-replace the crankshaft with a 20,000 mile LS2 Corvette crank I have sitting in the garage
-LS7 lifters
-Comp Cam chromoly pushrods
-Comp Cam 918 springs
-main and cap bearings
-new rod bolts
-Texas Speed cam kit (probably getting the 228R with the above mentioned pushrods and springs)
-aluminum heads (Looking at a few options, 241, 243, and 317 casting. Depends on how much money I have to spend)
Here she is, with a whole bunch of parts laying around her, a lot of which are for sale now.
so you've completely disassembled the motor with intentions of reassembling it with the used stock parts? what bearings are you going to use? new rings? hell man, if you've gone that far with it, you'd be best served having it honed while it's apart and installing new rings and cam bearings. i did that once, too. the next motor i buy will stay together and go from the bed of my truck to the stand for an fbod oil pan and intake then to the engine bay. no messing around.
will be nice when it's done, but i would opt for a larger cam. i think the lq4 engines were rated like 325hp and 345tq. i think the 345hp motors are the lq9..
so you've completely disassembled the motor with intentions of reassembling it with the used stock parts? what bearings are you going to use? new rings? hell man, if you've gone that far with it, you'd be best served having it honed while it's apart and installing new rings and cam bearings. i did that once, too. the next motor i buy will stay together and go from the bed of my truck to the stand for an fbod oil pan and intake then to the engine bay. no messing around.
will be nice when it's done, but i would opt for a larger cam. i think the lq4 engines were rated like 325hp and 345tq. i think the 345hp motors are the lq9..
Huh? I don't think you completely read my last post. The only "used" parts I'm putting in this motor are the crankshaft, which only has 20,xxx miles of use on it, and another set of heads, which will get new springs, and the 1.7 rockers from my stock heads. The crankshaft I have is in PERFECT shape.
I'm going to use the Clevite P series bearings for the main, cap, and cam. The cam I mentioned above is 228/228, .588"/.588" and I will get one with 112LSA. It will be a screamer.
you can use a truck intake which flows better than regular ls1 intake, or even better u can use truck 90mm intake which flows just as well a ls6 but cheeper, obviously larger than the ls6. but last resort would be the c5 sealed ls1 intake, they flow a tad better than the egr fbody manifold and look just like a ls6
also mill your heads, .040 will put u around 10:1 scr on a stock lq4 with stock head gaskets, if your block is 04+ then it will be theshort bolt version, and the correct bolts will be needed.
You can't use a truck intake in a 3rd gen, the front of the hood hits the intake even with a cowl hood, you have to swap to an LS1 style intake.
Right now, the LS6 is the best intake to run other than aftermarket intakes like the FAST.
truck intake would fit no problem with my glasstek 4" cowl hood FYI
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not everyone is running around with stock hoods, like i said before, the 90mm truck intakes flow just as well as a ls6 intake but obviously are phisically larger, can also use the truck return fuel rails, over the fbody ls1 rail. and cheeper, usually found for less than 200$ shipped, just have to use 90mm tb
not everyone is running around with stock hoods, like i said before, the 90mm truck intakes flow just as well as a ls6 intake but obviously are phisically larger, can also use the truck return fuel rails, over the fbody ls1 rail. and cheeper, usually found for less than 200$ shipped, just have to use 90mm tb
I'm not sweating over the intake at the moment, just because of the simple fact that an intake can be swapped out ao easily. I would rather spend my money on the cam and other internals and possibly heads, than the intake. I can't do it all the first time around, unfortunatly...I'm on a budget.
Replace main cap bolts (If you stud it, have it line honed)
Replace bearings (Measure clearances!)
Replace piston rings (Measure gaps, stock is .014-.016, if you have boost, nitrous or anythin more then n/a id advise filing them)
If you have intentions of doing rod bolts, pleaseeeeee have them torqued, stretch measured, and have the clearances checked. Cant even tell you how much i cringe at seeing people throwing in new rod bolts and assuming all will be good, let lone ones who do 1 bolt at a time
Past that, if you want a compression boost, cometic .045" MLS gaskets are $72 each from summit(factory gaskets are .051")
Do it once, do it right. If you can swing it, ARP Head stud's are an EXCELLENT investment. They pull on the threads for clamping, a bolt twists and pulls, not as good for the block threads,a nd wont hold as well. At the very least, ARP head bolts are re usable, and like $40 more then stockers.
What else...
Your pistons are -8cc, so you can work from there for compression. With my 64cc chambers, .053" gasket, im around 10.2:1 compression.
You can get away with using your stock flywheel bolts, but on something thats spinning at 1000-6500 rpm right beside your feet, good idea to chance it? At the very least some new stockers would do you well.
Hey BlueZee28, If you need some head bolts, I have a brand new set I JUST recieved yesterday and I dont need. Dumb mistake on my part, I ordered new bolts thinking they were TTY, which stock bolts are. Then I look closely at the bolt heads and they are ARP head bolts, reuseable according to ARP. So I have a brand new set of Fel-Pro head bolts (2 boxes, one for each head). I paid $75 bucks Canadian for them, so if you want I can sell em for maybe $50 Canadian, if you are even interested.
They are for an LS1, not sure if they are the same for the LQ4 :S
Hey BlueZee28, If you need some head bolts, I have a brand new set I JUST recieved yesterday and I dont need. Dumb mistake on my part, I ordered new bolts thinking they were TTY, which stock bolts are. Then I look closely at the bolt heads and they are ARP head bolts, reuseable according to ARP. So I have a brand new set of Fel-Pro head bolts (2 boxes, one for each head). I paid $75 bucks Canadian for them, so if you want I can sell em for maybe $50 Canadian, if you are even interested.
They are for an LS1, not sure if they are the same for the LQ4 :S
Mitch, all LSx blocks (5.3/4.8, 6.0L, 5.7L) from 97-03 used 4 short bolts for the top corner bolts to stop them from protruding into the valve chain area and into the bellhousing area.
the '04+ (5.3/4.8L. Iron 6.0L, 5.7L, 6.0L, 6.2L, 7.0L) use all shorter bolts. That means any LS1 unless its out of a 04 vette or gto has the longer head bolts.
I have a pic of how I removed the damper from both of my truck-5.3L engines. My cut and paste isn't working, but you can see it 2/3 of the way down page 7 of my thread: "Starting my 5.3 with pics", In the "Non-Technical Fiero Discussion" part of www.realfierotech.com
I went down to drop off the rest of the block's parts last night, and go over some last details before the shop puts everything together for me. I think I already mentioned that it has already been honed and decked and is ready to have all the new parts installed.
I also got a rather accurate price for all the labor and parts for the longblock. The price is $2,500 and includes the following: (I'm sharing the price with you guys because I am documenting the swap so that others can get an idea of what the swap costs if they wanted to do it )
-all labor (machine work, longblock assembly with heads)
-MS4 cam
-milled, cleaned, heads with valve job
-PRC or equivalent dual valve springs
-Melling race oil pump
-Yella Terra rocker arms
-hardened pushrods
-10% underdrive balancer pulley
-hardware (bolts, Cometic head gaskets, other misc. gaskets)
Not included in the price (I am completing a painting side job for these parts)
-Mahle forged and teflon coated pistons
-Eagle forged rods
I gave them the go-ahead to start putting it together, and I should get it back early next month I am thinking. I've got two other side jobs to finish up and I will have a little money left over to start looking out for a good LS1 T56. Then once the old drivetrain comes out and it gets sold, I will buy the swap parts from Hawks like the trans crossmember, motor mounts, and torque arm.
Oh yea, I also had the shop sandblast the block and it will get a black coating before it goes in the car:
looking good Nick! I still remember telling you about when I was thinking of doing my swap... by the time i finish i bet we'll both have lsx thirdgens.
Last edited by 3.1EyeCandy; 06-13-2009 at 05:17 PM.
Reason: spelling on a n810 keypad sucks.
actually you can reinstall the psitons with the rings and they will work fine. done it many a times. as for the intakes. the truck intake will show more torque down low but loses air up top. the ls6 will outflow it any day up top. there have been many studies on this. a fast 90mm will outflow both. i would just stick with an ls6 intake.
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Man, I wish I could ever get my swap done, or started for that matter . I decided to pull the plug last year for money reasons (I'm really cheap, and don't really have a real job...). Worst part is I basically have all the requisite LS1 swap parts that I need. Just a few things holding me back (computer reflash $100+, possible need for a better trans than an aging stock 700R4 $400+, and y-pipe fabrication $200ish?)
Anyway, good luck with the swap man. It's gonna be sweet!
-1989 Camaro with a 305 TPI, soon to be 6.0L LSx. -1985 Camaro with a 350 TPI, probably gonna stay that way. At least until I'm done with the other one...
looking goos Nick! I still remember telling you about when I was thinking of doing my swap... by the time i finish i bet we'll both have lsx thirdgens.
It's going to be sweeeeeet when both cars are done
Quote:
Originally Posted by one92rs
actually you can reinstall the psitons with the rings and they will work fine. done it many a times. as for the intakes. the truck intake will show more torque down low but loses air up top. the ls6 will outflow it any day up top. there have been many studies on this. a fast 90mm will outflow both. i would just stick with an ls6 intake.
The pistons that came out of the motor were shot. It looked like the person that owned the truck hadn't changed the oil in the last 10K miles it was running. They were all black and brown and corroded on the tops of the pistons. It will most likely get the base LS1 intake for the first couple months and then my builder can hook me up with a nice aluminum intake with billet fuel rails and better regulator for ~$600.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SheldonZ28
Damn right man!
Gonna be one hell of a motor there!
What's the piston spec's? Great cam choice Your gonna love it! What LSA did you get it with?
I don't recall the part # for the pistons, but they are the forged Mahle pistons with teflon coating on the sides. They are 4.009", because the shop honed the block out because we were afraid that the walls of the cylinders weren't in good enough shape to run with. The MS4 is the 111 LSA and it's going to be a beast
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueIroc-Z
Man, I wish I could ever get my swap done, or started for that matter . I decided to pull the plug last year for money reasons (I'm really cheap, and don't really have a real job...). Worst part is I basically have all the requisite LS1 swap parts that I need. Just a few things holding me back (computer reflash $100+, possible need for a better trans than an aging stock 700R4 $400+, and y-pipe fabrication $200ish?)
Anyway, good luck with the swap man. It's gonna be sweet!
Are you selling any of the swap parts? I hate to see you stop working on it, but if you want to sell anything let me know.
I paid off some of the parts for the motor today, and got to see the billet double roller timing set, the Cometic gaskets, and the Melling race oil pump. They're sweeet!
I also got the old drivetrain sold this evening. That put me $1,000 closer to getting this baby on the road with an LSX.
Today I paid off the rest of the parts list, and wrote a check for half of the machine work. I should be picking up the motor next week and pay off the remainder then.
Also, I was speaking to my buddy that ordered the parts for me, and he says he knows a guy in Illinois who makes custom, plug and play swap harnesses for about $650, but he said he can get them slightly cheaper than that since he buys them from him every so often. So I am thinking I will go that route and get a pre-tuned computer from another source so it will be ready to go when I put it all together.
I have some friends keeping their eyes out on a T56 for me, and I got the old drivetrain in the car sold last week so I have some extra money to spend there. Then what I will be focusing on are the swap parts from Spohn and accesories.
Yea I've got an itch to hear this thing running in my car. I think it will take me till sometime next year to do that though.
So far my only regret with the swap was buying a complete truck block with the wiring and computer for $950. I should have bought a bare block, possibly even without heads, and had it stripped down and got all the parts and machine work I am getting right now. I probably could have scooped up a good block for $300-400, and would have been $500 ahead of myself by now, considering I am having a hard time selling all the other stuff that came with the block.
Oh well, we live and learn, and it's a project so I can make excuses for myself as to why I am spending so much money on it.
Next week I will have a Spohn T56 crossmember (thanks to Justin aka Ghettocruiser!), a set of 42# Trickflow EV1 style injectors, and a Professional Products adjustable fuel regulator.
The rods came in today. I had a suprise, he got me the Eagle forged rods instead of the Scats. He's saying I should have the block back by the end of next week, they were just waiting for the rods to show up to finish up the bottom end. I'm getting excited!
Thing is gonna GO buddy, cant wait to see everything running in your car!!
Yea I am so excited just to even be able to set the motor down in the engine bay while I wait for a wiring harness and transmission. I'm going to order the motor mounts next week probably so they are here in time for me to take the old motor out. I'm finishing up a sick paint job on a friend's '96 Trans Am, and then I will be able to put the new motor down in the car.
I got more pictures sent to my phone from the shop today. The shortblock is assembled, and you can see the work they did on the face of the block where the heads go, it's all shiny My plan is to pick it up next week and start pulling the old one out!
I see you had to fly cut your pistons with the MS4. Talking to lots of guys on tech that say if i get the stock 317s milled i might run into PTV clearence issues without cutting the pistons. the MS3 looks like a good cam too.
ps, i found a block and heads for $400! if all goes as planned i'm gonna go look at it wednesday. he's a reputable shop willing to check the bottom end out for me too.
Yea the MS3 and MS4 are very similar. The MS4 is just slightly larger. Both are very healthy cams though, you won't be disappointed with either choice.
$400 is a steal as long as it's in good shape. You should scoop it up
I got some LS1 motor mounts (clamshell mounts) for free. I posted up on LS1tech looking for some and got a response after a record-breaking 2 minutes! They should be here by Monday.
I got some LS1 motor mounts (clamshell mounts) for free. I posted up on LS1tech looking for some and got a response after a record-breaking 2 minutes! They should be here by Monday.
I hate you! I've been looking all over for some and can't find anything cheap. New will cost me about $100 per side and used isn't gonna be any less than $100 by the time I get shipping and everything on there. Didn't your truck motor come with the clamshells?
I was told the truck mounts will not work when putting it in an Fbody. And yea I was looking for mounts for a while too, post up on LS1tech and I'm sure someone will chime in
88 Firebird Formula 350- 85,XXX miles *G92* *Ws6*
And my plan is a T56, and later down the road heads and cam. I want to get it in the car and running before I jack around with modding the motor. 
. I decided to pull the plug last year for money reasons (I'm really cheap, and don't really have a real job...). Worst part is I basically have all the requisite LS1 swap parts that I need. Just a few things holding me back (computer reflash $100+, possible need for a better trans than an aging stock 700R4 $400+, and y-pipe fabrication $200ish?)
