LTX and LSXPutting LT1's, LS1's, and their variants into Third Gens is becoming more popular. This board is for those who are doing and have done the swaps so they can discuss all of their technical aspects, including repairs, swap info, and performance upgrades.
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I have $4,000 burning a hole in my pocket right now. I would *like* to finally do the LS swap into my 92 GTA I have always been wanting to do. Is $4K enough?
I'm wanting an LS2/LS3 and NOT an LS1/LS6 because I'd like to be be able to use the newer L76/L92/LS7 stuff to get more power in the future. I also intend on staying automatic.
I JUST totally rebuilt my 4L60, can I bolt this up to an LS2 or MUST I have a 4L60E?
I'm also concerned with the engine harness. I want to keep ALL of my stock guages. Are these still like over a grand?
I also want CA C.A.R.B. legal headers and cats to run into my existing 3" SLP catback. Is this possible?
I will be buying a tubular K-member with the LS motor mounts too.
Thanks!
Alex
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LS2/LS3 are going for 4000-6000 for engine only. Im not sure about the tranny, Im not into autos much.
As for the harness, if you can read a wiring diagram, Id suggest to build your own. I did using an 02 Silverado harness. Its not hard, just time consuming. Got it for 100$. Swap harnesses go from 600-800$
There is a way to keep all of your stock gauges if you want to, a little tweek here and there will make them work good as new.
I cant help you with the emissions as we dont have any here... but what I can tell you is the only header that will fit this swap is Hawk's LTs. I dont know if they are legal. They are about 800$
Tubular K's go from 450$ to 650$ with mounts.
I hope this helps.
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Will stock LS manifolds work then? I could maybe run GTO manifolds or F-body manifolds. I know the Y-body manifolds won't work right?
I might be able to swing $6K but only at the very most. Maybe I can buy the engine and what else I can afford and buy the last in a couple months.
I would look for a used K-member and hopefully find one.
I'm sure they make TV cable brackets for LS stuff so I can use my current tranny, it was built for 500ft/lbs tq. What about using my 2400RPM stall?
I suck at electrical stuff so I'm sure I'll have to buy a harness.
EDIT: So I can in fact run an LS1 short block with L92 heads and an LS2 intake? That could save enough dough to buy L92 heads, LS2 intake, and maybe cam right from the get go!
I would go LS1 if you are on that budget, an LS3 is going to cost a lot more. Check out this thread for info on a TV Cable setup (3.1EyeCandy used his 700R4 with an LS1).
You also don't have to use a tubular K-Member, you can clearance the stock K-Member to your needs and get conversion mounts / adapter plates.
I am swapping a basically stock LS1 in for now, and once I get that settled, I will worry about camming / intake / exhaust later.
However, you being in Cali would be better off purchasing a complete donor car to get everything needed for emissions. You'll have to run a 4th gen fuel tank with the evap, air pump, egr (unless 2000+) and right now there are not any CARB certified swap headers available.
Probably would be best to stick with an LS1, and they might not even take a TB that has the provision for the TV cable since it didn't come from the factory with that type of transmission, but the 4L60E for auto.
Might want to check with a referee and see what you're going to get into in the area where you are first.
EDIT: So I can in fact run an LS1 short block with L92 heads and an LS2 intake?
Sorry, but no, those parts won't work together. The cylinder bore of the LS1 is something like 3.7xx", and the L92 heads require that the bore size be at least 4". In addition, I'm pretty sure that the LS2 was an engine that uses cathedral-port heads, & the intake ports on the L92 are rectangular (similar to a big-block Chevy).
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news...
Your cheapest route would probably be this combo (or something similar):
Junkyard 5.3L iron long-block
LS1 intake (LS6 if you can find a cheap one)
Stock F-body exhaust manifolds, oil pan & front acc'y drive
Walbro 255 in-tank pump w/ Corvette filter/regulator
and the harness/ECM from the vendor that you feel is best (I'd strongly suggest Speartech, for two reasons - 1st, check his experience/credentials, & 2nd, I've never heard of anyone being unhappy with his work. He's the only one I've ever seen like that.)
EDIT: Just noticed that you're in Cali, so the truck engines (5.3, 6.0, etc.) aren't legal for you. Looks like your best bet is to find the best deal you possibly can on an LS-equipped donor car... ESPECIALLY if you have to remain emissions-legal, it's just really dumb to try to do it any other way. And since you really do need to get a donor car, it's pretty unlikely that $4k will be enough to do the whole swap. Sorry.
And since I don't want to leave you on a down note, check out this thread for some ideas of how you might be able to stretch the funds that you do have.
4k only if u get one heck of a deal i got my block out of a 97 z28 and the tranny outa a 94 trans am for 1k counting the wiring harness and comp box.. i literally should be arrested for stealing.. it can be done but u have to come across a deal and right now with people all across the country hurting for money i would say yes.
I plan on being right around $4,000 in my swap, if not just a tad bit less than that. The key is to do one of two things:
A) buy a totalled car and take what you need and part the rest
-or-
B) get an insane deal on a COMPLETE motor with wiring and computer, if you try and get a short block or long block without the wiring and computer you will most likely end up paying a lot more than you need to
I picked up a complete block with wiring and computer for $950, which I thought was a really good price. I plan on spending $1,000-$1,200 on a good T56 and the manual trans swap parts I need. Then when you consider the $550-ish you need to spend on crossmembers, motor mounts, and a torque arm, and then the money needed to buy LS1 accesories and brackets (if you are using a truck block), intake, and then exhaust...you're probably sitting around $4,000 with exhaust manifolds. If you upgrade to the Hawks swap longtube headers you're closer to $5,000.
That's the way to do it, but like I said, you can do it for about $4,000 if you get a good deal on a complete block. I couldn't afford a wrecked car so I am piecing it together myself.
I will say NO. I've done quite a few LS swaps in other vehicles and i can almost guarantee you $4k wont do an ls1 or ls2 swap.
I part out 3-4 99-02 F-bodys a month so i know what stuff is worth. unless you get a smoking deal, you arent going to get a donor, part it out, make money, and end up with a ls1/4l60e pullout, it just doesnt work that way otherwise everyone would do that. LS2 setups in a gto, good luck touching one of those for under $6k.
My advice to you would be:
1. Save up your penny's and do this swap just the way you picture it
2. buy a 5.3 and go that route
Im not a person that likes to settle with something just cuz i dont have the money, i wait till i can afford it and do it right the first time. If you have $4k and cant wait, buy a cheaper motor, and do the swap the way you want it. If you want to go LS1, your not going to get to have your headers, cam, fancy stuff like you might want.
Also, you will find these swaps will nickel and dime you to death. there are so many little things you will come across along the way you just cannot plan on covering everything.
That being said, good luck with your decision and happy swaping!
Last edited by five7kid; 03-05-2009 at 04:27 PM.
Reason: word clean-up
I will say NO. I've done quite a few LS swaps in other vehicles and i can almost guarantee you $4k wont do an ls1 or ls2 swap.
I part out 3-4 99-02 F-bodys a month so i know what stuff is worth. unless you get a smoking deal, you arent going to get a donor, part it out, make money, and end up with a ls1/4l60e pullout, it just doesnt work that way otherwise everyone would do that. LS2 setups in a gto, good luck touching one of those for under $6k.
My advice to you would be:
1. Save up your penny's and do this swap just the way you picture it
2. buy a 5.3 and go that route
Im not a person that likes to settle with something just cuz i dont have the money, i wait till i can afford it and do it right the first time. If you have $4k and cant wait, buy a cheaper motor, and do the swap the way you want it. If you want to go LS1, your not going to get to have your headers, cam, fancy stuff like you might want.
Also, you will find these swaps will nickel and dime you to death. there are so many little things you will come across along the way you just cannot plan on covering everything.
That being said, good luck with your decision and happy swaping!
very sound advice!
i also have done various swaps and have parted out various ls1 fbodys, everything mentioned is pretty much dead on.
a 5.3 will be your best choice, imo a th350 will be cheeper and quicker than a t56 equipped car. u can use a sbc tc with a 6.0 flexplate and spacer, everything bolts right up. there are th350/400 conversions for 3rd gens available so its not that much of an obstacle.
use as many oem parts as possible, parts off trucks are relatively cheep, a ls1 intake manifold is not a restriction for a 5.3 but a ls6 is better choice.
not only will your car be quicker than most, u will have the foundation for a 6.0 or better engine.
Last edited by five7kid; 03-05-2009 at 04:28 PM.
Reason: quote from post #15
There's a totalled '05 GTO on craigslist here in St Louis for $5,000. It's still got the drivetrain in it, so I know totalled cars can be had for a reasonable price.
Also, I know of two people personally that made money on their LS1 swap by buying a totalled car and parting it out.
There's a totalled '05 GTO on craigslist here in St Louis for $5,000. It's still got the drivetrain in it, so I know totalled cars can be had for a reasonable price.
Also, I know of two people personally that made money on their LS1 swap by buying a totalled car and parting it out.
I would assume either teh car is gutted, or it is smashed with very few usable parts and has alot of miles on it. i've tried buying these before so smashed, rolled, and nasty that the only usable thing left would be motor and trans and i know $5500 wont get one. guess i look in all the wrong places........
I would assume either teh car is gutted, or it is smashed with very few usable parts and has alot of miles on it. i've tried buying these before so smashed, rolled, and nasty that the only usable thing left would be motor and trans and i know $5500 wont get one. guess i look in all the wrong places........
I guess so too haha
I'll post the ad link later, it would take too long on my blackberry, trying to find the link, copying it, and posting it here.
Guys, he's in California....pretty much his only option is to find a wrecked 4th gen and use the drivetrain from it to come out with the most parts for the least amount of money.
True, that way everything came from the same car and no argument can be made (well, it is California so I guess they could argue about anything he does to the car)
I havent read through all of this, but for some insight, we have 2 LS3 blocks at work, their $1500 a peice IIRC. Good luck getting a motor for that. Shortblock LS3's, used generally run around $2500 - $3k. Considering their a year old at best.
They also require a E40 Engine management, more extra costs.
LS7 parts will fit on nothing but an LS7 block. We've got 4 in stock at work if your interested in one
Best bet to stick to ls1/6 stuff. Most of our customers are going LS2 these days. We got a couple LS2 engines in stock and 14 LS2 blocks. their $1100 each.
When I first saw this thread topic, the first thought that came to my mind was, "Yes, $4000 is enough - assuming you already have the engine, transmission, PCM, and harness."
I have about $1600 into mine right now, but I have a lot of engine related parts. I need a 4L60E, 4th gen tank, and a harness / PCM. By the time I sell my TPI stuff, the recently rebuilt 305, and the 700R4, I should have the stuff I need paid for :P
When I first saw this thread topic, the first thought that came to my mind was, "Yes, $4000 is enough - assuming you already have the engine, transmission, PCM, and harness."
I have about $1600 into mine right now, but I have a lot of engine related parts. I need a 4L60E, 4th gen tank, and a harness / PCM. By the time I sell my TPI stuff, the recently rebuilt 305, and the 700R4, I should have the stuff I need paid for :P
I'm going to try and save a couple more grand before I finish but I guess for now I'll buy the 4th gen tank and emissions stuff, tubular k-member with LSx mounts, wiring harness, TV cable bracket, fuel pump, and every single other thing I will need to complete it EXCEPT the LS2/LS3 for now. Then in about 4 months from now I'll buy and engine when I find one that suits me mileage, condition, and price wise.
I'll also have to start looking at what engine from exactly what model and year cars will have the best accessory setup for my GTA and what exhaust manifolds & cats will be the best. I can just have a friend of mine who does exhaust work make it work with my SLP catback.
I also want to try and save up for atleast a few mods like camshaft and stuff.
No....Its already been proven, many times over, that you can MAKE MONEY (put $ in your pocket) after doing the swap.
It depends on how BASIC you wanna do it....Whether or not your willing to tackle some things (like the wiring) yourself. And if you have the space & resources.
i think you could do the swap for $4k with an ls1 engine only. using a 4l60 might require some of adapter, universal flywheel, and different converter but i don't see why it wouldn't work. i definately don't plan on having $7.5k in my swap (89 firebird), but i do plan on having a solid car that runs good. the single most expensive part of my build is the torque converter.
why not use a stock 4th gen pump as opposed to the walbro? no regulator needed and used ones can be had for less than $50. that's what i'm doing..
also, i believe adapting the lsx sending unit to read on our stock gages is only a matter of adapter fittings. i plan on using my stock dash and gages, also. i WILL use it, regardless, i'm just hoping it isn't going to be a bear.
No....Its already been proven, many times over, that you can MAKE MONEY (put $ in your pocket) after doing the swap.
It depends on how BASIC you wanna do it....Whether or not your willing to tackle some things (like the wiring) yourself. And if you have the space & resources.
it all depends on the car you have in the first place, i mean, you can sell the drivetrain out of a 5.7 iroc and get enough to really help out on your swap, but if you have an 83 base camaro, 305, open diff with a non wc 5spd you wont get much for it.
yes a 5.3 and even iron block 6.0 swap can be done. if you cant find a good deal on these just go to carpart.com they cost more than person to person deals but it's not a rip like e-gay
1000 for the 6.0 eng. (priced high but at carpart.com prices)
50.00 for intake and fuel rail (see craigs list or ls1tech)
800.00 for the trans (f-body)
truck wiring often will come with the eng. but if not figure
150.00 should cover it
that still leaves 2000 for spohn motor mounts, ls1 manifolds , pcm and tune and ls1 accessories. could get close in price but if you can weld and fab small items you can do it. and still have cash in your pocket
Last edited by 88 350 tpi formula; 03-08-2009 at 10:07 PM.
yes a 5.3 and even iron block 6.0 swap can be done. if you cant find a good deal on these just go to carpart.com they cost more than person to person deals but it's not a rip like e-gay
1000 for the 6.0 eng. (priced high but at carpart.com prices)
50.00 for intake and fuel rail (see craigs list or ls1tech)
800.00 for the trans (f-body)
truck wiring often will come with the eng. but if not figure
150.00 should cover it
that still leaves 2000 for spohn motor mounts, ls1 manifolds , pcm and tune and ls1 accessories. could get close in price but if you can weld and fab small items you can do it. and still have cash in your pocket
He can't do a 5.3 or 6.0 swap, he lives in California
If you find a deal on a complete wrecked LS1 F-body and do all the work yourself and don't go with many frills, I'd say a swap is do-able for $4000. You can sale some of the stuff from the donor car to get back some of the spent money. That's the route I plan to take at any route. But you're using your 700R, so you might be better off finding a complete engine and going that route.
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I'm in the same boat for the headers. I talked to my emissions referree, and he said I could get a y-pipe made by any exhaust shop I wanted, for exhaust manifolds, but the headers sold by Hawks are out of the question. That's okay, stock LS1 Z28s are pulling around 296 rwhp with an automatic, and if that's not enough for me, there's the Squires rear-turbo idea that's good for an emissions-legal 450 rwhp with auto trans still using stock exhaust manifolds, heads, cam and intake.
