LTX and LSXPutting LT1's, LS1's, and their variants into Third Gens is becoming more popular. This board is for those who are doing and have done the swaps so they can discuss all of their technical aspects, including repairs, swap info, and performance upgrades.
Welcome to ThirdGen.org!
Welcome to ThirdGen.org.
You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, join the ThirdGen.org community today!
The lq4 is haunting me... I found a set of LQ9 aluminum heads all stock FS around me for $260. These would bolt directly onto a 2001 6L right? They raise compression to 10:1+ correct?
Also, can the 6L be bored and stroked like a gen1?
Between TGO google and LS1 tech i'm learning
This ad is not displayed to registered members. Register your free account today and become a member on ThirdGen!
no, the heads have the same size combustion chamber as the lq4 heads, the newer lq4s use the 317 heads also. What changes the compression between LQ4 and LQ9 is the pistons, LQ4 has a dished piston, and LQ9 is flat top. so swapping heads wont yeild ur 10:1. U could however buy the heads and have them milled/run a thinner gasket to raise ur compression...
And yes the motor can be bored and stroked. The very popular 408 is a bored and stroked Iron 6.0 block based engine...
__________________
FWD FTL!!!
Dont get mad if I call you and idiot i just call them like i see them, If you want to tell me im a jerk save it ive heard it all before....
I know he pretty much summed up the answers to your questions, but I do have something else to add.
I wouldn't spend $250 on those heads. I'd wait until I found a set of BARE heads for $100 or less and if you want to have those ported and milled, you can, and then throw a good set of springs on them with a valve job and call it a day. If you ever plan on swapping cams in the motor, you would save yourself the extra $150 on top of the price of a set of bare heads that would be because of having the stock springs in place, but if you are swapping cams you won't run those springs anyways.
That's exactly what I did, I bought a bare set of 317 casting heads for $100 and had them milled, valve job, used the valves from my other set of heads (cast iron), and then bought a set of PRC springs rated at like 640 lift or something like that (they're from Texas Speed if you want to check them out). Total cost including the price of the springs, purchase of heads, and machine work was like $700. And this way if I ever want to swap heads for a set of Darts or Patriots, I can actually get a little more money for mine since they have such good springs on them.
Oh and another thing, which you probably read from my swap thread in here anyways but I will repeat it just for you...if you're going to do the 6.0 truck block, try and find a cheap BARE BLOCK, just with the front and rear covers and main caps, and maybe heads. Don't waste the money on the accesories because they won't work with the swap anyways.
I can only find complete motors on the internet, but i will call up some yards and ask them how much they get for the bare block and maybe heads.
So when i go and buy the 6l i should get these parts from the donor truck:
1 Block including just the mains (no internals)
2 Bare heads (wouldn't i still want the valves though?)
3 ECM and wireing? Or do i have to get a different one?
I'll do some more researching...
EDIT: maybe i could get the complete longblock minus the intake and accesory brackets? That should knock the price down to 5-600
I can only find complete motors on the internet, but i will call up some yards and ask them how much they get for the bare block and maybe heads.
So when i go and buy the 6l i should get these parts from the donor truck:
1 Block including just the mains (no internals)
2 Bare heads (wouldn't i still want the valves though?)
3 ECM and wireing? Or do i have to get a different one?
I'll do some more researching...
EDIT: maybe i could get the complete longblock minus the intake and accesory brackets? That should knock the price down to 5-600
Sorry what I meant was a longblock, not bare block. Yes if possible I would try and get the internals. If you find that the internals aren't in very good shape you can always trash them and do a rebuild like I did. Also, if you buy a 1999 or 2000 block, it may not matter to you if you get the internals or not because the crank would need to be replaced with an LS1 crank or newer 6.0L crank in order to use a T56.
If you get a bare set of heads, new valves are cheap and actually they are interchangable with the 5.3L truck heads. So they are very common and wouldn't be hard to find.
I wouldn't sweat too much over the wiring harness and computer. If you want a really clean swap you will want a harness and computer from an Fbody. You can either pick up a factory Fbody harness and adapt it yourself into the 3rd gen body harness or you can go aftermarket. These can be expensive, but I found a guy pretty close to me that does custom harnesses for around $650 if you want me to get you his contact information.
Well im gonna get a motor witha good bottom end in it so i dont go overboard on costs. Heads are up in the air right now. Probably bring them to a shop to get redone with new valves springs etc. professional products makes some nice intake and fuel rails for the ls motors witha decent price off summit, probably what ill go with.
idk im just talking outlooud on this so i remember what im doing lol
The LQ4 317 heads do have larger chambers than LS1 and the pistons do have a bit of a dish, but in the trucks they still put out 325 net FWHP. That ain't shabby, and well over the best that came in any 3rd gen from the factory.
Put on an LS1 - or even better, LS6 - intake, headers, and tune accordingly, you'll have an even more powerful set-up without putting out a bunch of money for heads, aftermarket intake, etc.
I have two of these engines. One is going to get stroked (most likely), L92 heads, L76 intake, 90 or 92mm TB, bigger injectors, cam, headers, tune, and is going in the '57 with a 4L80E transmission. The other is getting LS6 intake/injectors/TB, headers, tune, and is going into Berlinetta #1 otherwise as-is (may get a cam, jury still out on that). I expect both of them to run better in their respective cars than what each does currently.
How much can you bore and stroke these motors to? 408? i want to keep costs a bit lower too. I already got 5 figures into my car and want to keep the motor/trans at a reasonable cost.
As of now this is my game plan, have a 400 rwhp streetable iroc.
1. stock bottom end lq4 block (less than 100K miles)
2. reworked heads done at a local LS specialty shop
3. professional products 96mm intake and fuel rails http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PFS-52064/
4. prof. products 96mm TB http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PFS-69729/
5. cam, lifters, rods, springs (help)
6. stainless works headers (if any $$$ is left over)
7. t56
8. TONS of other little things lol
You don't need a 408 stroker kit to put 400hp at the wheels with that block. The stuff I've got in my motor should be around the 425-435hp mark (shop estimation). That's with stock crank, lighter internals (forged rods and pistons), lighter valvetrain (Scorpion rockers, dual valve springs, titanium retainers), an MS4, and cleaned up/milled heads, and a small bore/hone.
The thing is, if you DO decide to go stroker, the machine work will cost the same. Your only additional cost would be the actual crank.
If you want to keep it on the cheap side, you can find an LS1 intake for $40 or less. That's how much I paid for mine. I think I'm going to try and use the truck throttle body, unless I find a good deal on a bigger one. I might even sell the intake I have and try and pick up a Professional Products of LS6.
There's deals to be had on LS1tech, you just have to check in like 10 times a day or else someone else will scoop them up, there's thousands of people online on that site every day, day in and day out.
The LQ4 317 heads do have larger chambers than LS1 and the pistons do have a bit of a dish, but in the trucks they still put out 325 net FWHP. That ain't shabby, and well over the best that came in any 3rd gen from the factory.
For what its worth, HorsePower TV dyno'd a stock LQ4 with only long tubes. With the stock truck intake, tune and cone filter it made 386hp at the crank.
HP TV is sometimes a joke, but this should be pretty accurate. The later LQ4's were basically just larger displacement LS1's (similar heads, same cam etc). We all know how underrated the LS1 is, so add a few cubes to it and it is ever more underated. If I recall, they put a cam in that motor and made 500 or so hp through the stock heads (albeit with springs and rocker change). It would be interesting to see what kind of power guys on this board are putting down with their mild LQ4/LQ9 builds.
For what its worth, HorsePower TV dyno'd a stock LQ4 with only long tubes. With the stock truck intake, tune and cone filter it made 386hp at the crank.
HP TV is sometimes a joke, but this should be pretty accurate. The later LQ4's were basically just larger displacement LS1's (similar heads, same cam etc). We all know how underrated the LS1 is, so add a few cubes to it and it is ever more underated. If I recall, they put a cam in that motor and made 500 or so hp through the stock heads (albeit with springs and rocker change). It would be interesting to see what kind of power guys on this board are putting down with their mild LQ4/LQ9 builds.
I will let you know once mine is on the ground and running. My first stop will be the dyno after the break-in period. Stock heads but milled, cleaned up, valve job, etc. New springs and a healthy cam.
My motor was dyno'd by the previous owner @ 351 RWHP and 362 RWTQ with a FAST 78mm Intake and ported 853's. Other than that it was stock. Pretty good I think. I think 400RWHP from an LQ4 would be quite easy.
I can't imagine what 400 horses will feel like!! I think with the typhoon 96mm, a good TB (nick williams?), good cam and valvetrain i'll hit 400 for sure.
You guys got any good valvetrain knowledge? I have NO CLUE what all the cam mumble jumble is.
If the car is going to be driven daily, I probably wouldn't go with the cam I chose. The MS4 is a pretty lopy cam and would buck and kick at low speeds with a T56. If you're using it as a DD, you might want to pick something a tad smaller. The TSP 228R wouldn't be a bad choice for you, although you have to remember that since the 6.0 has 18 more cubic inches, it will tone down a cam slightly from an LS1.
I'll try and help you pick out a cam later, I'm about to leave for work as I am typing this.
Torquer V2 (XER281HR) is another good cam, mine is a 113+3, .595/.598, 232/234*
It does buck a bit at low speed in OD, but it makes loads of power. With stock sized tires on a third gen it roasts them from a 55-60mph roll. Just make sure you get a nice converter for it. I went with a Yank ST2800 and that was barely enough.
__________________ 1989 Firebird Formula 6.0
-6.0LQ9
-Edelbrock shorty headers
-XER281HR (Torquer V2)
-Comp R's
-921 spring kit
-4L60E Stage II
-Yank 2800 stall
-True Duals
-Stock interior integrated to LS1 harness
-3.73 Posi
Spin at 50 mph?!? holy sh** I see your in TX, is EVERY big speed shop for lsx's in texas? i mean it seems like texas has a crap load. TSP is huge lol, you see their $75K dyno room?
I'm leaning towards a custom spec'd cam now. probably will be the last thing i buy for the motor so he can get all the other motor details into the cam and really make it a screamer.
Get the parts list you are gonna purchase and shoot me a pm, I'll see if I can hook you up with lower prices on some things.
We have a couple of nice Fbody shops up this way too. There's one 45 minutes from my house and an even bigger one just a couple hours north towards Chicago.
Oh ya after driving my manual, then going to the auto silverado with the vortec 350, my car has lots more balls. t56 FTW!! i just need to find one close to MN, or go all out and spend 2590 on a tremec.
Ya nick i think our motors will be damn near twins lol.
Get the parts list you are gonna purchase and shoot me a pm, I'll see if I can hook you up with lower prices on some things.
We have a couple of nice Fbody shops up this way too. There's one 45 minutes from my house and an even bigger one just a couple hours north towards Chicago.
THANK YOU!! That'd be awesome. A few bucks here and there really adds up!
I REALLY want to go to wisconsin tomorrow and get that lq4
if your goal is only 400whp through a t56 and most likely a 12 bolt or 9", i think all you'd need to do is mill the stock 317s, (how much is up to you, but these motors LOVE compression, i'd opt for a 60cc chamber or so, because remember that your lq4 has a 6.7cc piston dish) find a mid-230s duration cam, ls6 intake, headers, and a good tune. you'd easily be over 400whp, especially in a stick car. minimal effort and excellent returns with a very mild setup.
if you really wanted to make some power, find a vic jr intake, carb style tb, and custom grind a 250* cam on a tight lsa. but you'd need some gears and have to verify ptv with a cam that large, although i'd suspect you'd have plenty of room.
the 4" bore gives you a lot of options. you could go the L92 route, also. however, your best hp/$ i think would be found with my first suggestion.
Scoggin has l92 heads for pretty cheap, except than i'd have to run the ls3 intake which is alright. They can shave and cnc mill them too for extra dough.
I really need to buy a motor first to see how the bottom end is. But it's sounding like ill re-do it anway lol.
Thanks for all the great info guys! Keep it comeing
Why not just do some aftermarket heads? Darts or Patriots or something, if you're gonna go all out? Then you could have a bigger variety of intakes to choose from rather than being stuck with an LS3 intake. Just sayin'
I'll post up the blueprint/build sheet from my motor tomorrow night and show you exactly how much money I spent on parts and labor/machine work. That will give you an idea what it will cost to do a rebuild (the right way anyways)
Well i bought a 03 lq4 and 4l80e today for $650. Gonna pick it up when i get time!
So they wouldn't seperate the engine and trans huh? That kinda stinks, oh well, at least the trans *SHOULDN'T* be too hard to sell. Post it up on truck sites, and it should go fast. Lucky turd, you got the 317's on your block, I had to go buy a set!
Stock heads but milled, cleaned up, valve job, etc. New springs and a healthy cam. 
) 
