LTX and LSXPutting LT1's, LS1's, and their variants into Third Gens is becoming more popular. This board is for those who are doing and have done the swaps so they can discuss all of their technical aspects, including repairs, swap info, and performance upgrades.
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There is! i have it on my car just dont have any pictures of it. It was cake to put on too. all we had to do was make 2 pipes that went from my hawks lsx swap headers to the x-pipe, and everything else was direct bolt on.
I used the bassani true dual system off a 4th gen. besides using the 2 rear hangers off the 4th gen car (direct bolt on) it was cake and clearance is actually pretty nice.
What year 4th gen?
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I called and was informed that the 1 5/8 setup was better for me anyway since I am not doing a big ci motor that would require the 1 3/4 or larger.
The 2 fittings that look bad are stock ones and not aftermarket like I was expecting...the 3rd fitting is not stock and anodized blue.
I'm also missing 2 bolts and a racetronix setup.
Granted, Bruce has explained what was up with the fittings and was going to send me the missing parts. Hopefully Spohn comes thru soon and gets me everything I ordered also.
Here is some more pics of that crossmember and Y-pipe fabbed up... enjoy
Is that a new crossmember? Got any side shots showing ground clearance? What torque arm is being used on that car? Any idea when you guys are going to produce this set?
wow, those headers look so much better with the engine. i bought mine and i dont even have the engine yet. anyways i scored a beautiful gas tank from an LS1 firebird today and it looks brand new!
finally got some time to swap the ls1 manifolds for the hawks headers we got. they look good and went in as a breeze but.............
my concerns here are the port holes are not exactly round and also the flange surface is not smooth. would this cause sealing issues when bolting up with stock plate gaskets ? or should i need to get some thicker gaskets ? what do u guys think?
The 02 sensor hits the transmission due to location of the hole. I had read long time ago this was an issue but it was solved. So people who recently purchased this and installed this did you have the same issue or what did you do ??
Driver side:
The top right of the collector (3") is right in the way of the transmission position lever. the trans is a 4L60e orginal to the LS1
The driver side head flange touches the brass part of the CTS. I am sure that is not good.
These 2 issues, I have never read of before. Did anyone else who used these headers before have these specific issues ?
I am not sure how concerned I should be of this but the left and right collectors are not level. I would think they should. Please let us know ur experience or what to do ??
Now I understand why they were on sale... and I still dont know if mine have shipped.
As far as your install goes, the fact that the port holes arent 100% round is no problem, well not at the collector. For the flange, Id put something straight on it, like a wall level and check how crooked it is. You can always correct this using a belt sander. The gaskets should seal the rest no problem.
The O2 bung looks placed at the wrong spot (I guess). All I see here is to cut it off, relocate it and weld it back.
Now for the collectors getting in the way and being not leveled... Im not sure what to say...
I dont understand all those issues, these headers are supposed to be top notch. I have never heard anything wrong with them. Hawks should chime in here to explain whats going on here.
__________________ Shaved and Clean, that's how I like 'em. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2432471/1
The driver side head flange touches the brass part of the CTS. I am sure that is not good.
These 2 issues, I have never read of before. Did anyone else who used these headers before have these specific issues ?
I am not sure how concerned I should be of this but the left and right collectors are not level. I would think they should. Please let us know ur experience or what to do ??
I have to wait till tuesday to talk to hawks
Just touching the CTS is not the only issue. I would want enough clearance around the castellations of the hex to be able to get a wrench on the CTS to be able to remove and replace it without having to remove the header to do so.
Its hard to guesstimate over the net BUT... Looks to me like the alloy has been changed in the stainless and for certain I can tell you that whoever welded up mine certainly did not do those ones in the pics posted here. Im not saying those are junk but mine were pieces of art. Literally nothing at all to complain about the build quality or fitment mine were absolutely spot on perfect and i couldnt be happier. There were also pure stainless 316L IIRC but those look like the cheaper "stainless" which has a highr carbon steel content and it gives the finish a chromier look. Easiest way to tell is stick a magnet on em and if its sticks its crappy stainless. So check that out and post about it please.
Mind you I would still buy those if I had no other option although if Hawks is monitoring this perhaps a 2 stage offering? Premium and not so premium headers.
Get what you pay for in life and mine were pricey but they are sweet.
It was labor day public holiday monday here in USA. I will be calling bruce 1st thing in the morning. I am sure he will fix all these issues as he always has.
I think its a manuf issue. wonder if stainless works got a new welder
cam, mw66nova,
These are the exact same headers you guys got. it was on sale for $100 off.
Sice we all did a gp pf more than 5, we got another 100 bucks off.
Im not saying those are junk but mine were pieces of art. Literally nothing at all to complain about the build quality or fitment mine were absolutely spot on perfect and i couldnt be happier.
Its kind of hard to blame Hawks really...they are just a distributor. They cant trial fit each set of headers that SW builds...or maybe they should. But it seems as though SW sends out some "off" product every so often. Basically like the guy building that particular part wanted to get out early on a friday or something. Ive never seen some of the fitment issues listed above. Those might also be the first pics Ive seen of the headers with an Auto trans.
Good luck guys!
J.
__________________
ARE shortblock, Ross custom boost pistons, arp rod bolts, ARE ported oil pump,
MTI 2e 5.3L ported heads milled .030 with double springs,
228/224 113+1 Comp XE-R, Cloyes adjustable timing chain, LS6 valley cover,
fast 90mm intake, NW 90mm throttle body, SVO 30lb injectors, 85mm MAF,
ASP underdrive pulley, 160* t-stat, stainless LT headers 1.75" primaries
I had a one more issues when I tried to bolt up the headers.
On the pass side the head bolt holes on the flange dont really line up with the holes on the head.
Of the 6 I am only able to get 5 of them. There is too much play in the holes. Some of them are so tight that I am afraid I will snap them in the heads.
No problems on the driver side though
Quote:
Those might also be the first pics Ive seen of the headers with an Auto trans.
Wow....really.....everyone is going with a T56 built nobody doing a LS1/4L60 combo swap .
If there is anybody out there that has this combo please chime in. We will really appriciate your input.
I talked to Steven and Bruce in the morning. Here are some info
It seems modifying the shift linkage bracket on a 4L60E swap is a requirement for using these headers. I am surprised this has not been mentioned before.
When I am looking at my headers, if the driver side collector was level with the pass side collector it would clear the shift linkage bracket.
The passenger side bung is a hit or miss thing, sometimes it clears, sometimes it doesnt.
Bruce is going to talk to the SSW about the flange on the driver side hitting the CTS sensor.
This is only my speculation, these headers where mostly designed around a T56, it may or may not clear the 4L60E. (I hope other 4L60e guys who has this combo will chime in and prove me wrong)
Also looking at the way the merege collector was welded to the primeries is not the best in my openion. Wonder how they make sure they get it exact everytime. or it maybe what ghettocruiser said
Quote:
Basically like the guy building that particular part wanted to get out early on a friday or something.
I'm going to be starting my swap soon with the 4l60e as well, and am not looking forward to this part of the swap so far. I tried the magnet trick that cam- suggested and it only stuck to the flanges. Which are the only part of the header's that aren't constructed that great.
Hawks needs to chime in here asap... Where is the customer service?
Sorry it took so long for me to respond, we have been super busy here after the holiday. If you use the 4L60 trans with these headers there is not alot of room illustrated by screeminchicken. I have attached some pictures of a car we are working on now of them installed... see attached
Hawks, please let me know that these headers will work for the auto trans. that is what i intend to get, i bought these headers in hopes to get the motor soon afterwards and it would really put a damper on the spirits if it doesnt fit after i get the motor and transmission. you guys need to produce that y-pipe and make it affordable for us that went with this setup so there will be no bitter taste in the mouth.
Hawks, please let me know that these headers will work for the auto trans. that is what i intend to get, i bought these headers in hopes to get the motor soon afterwards and it would really put a damper on the spirits if it doesnt fit after i get the motor and transmission. you guys need to produce that y-pipe and make it affordable for us that went with this setup so there will be no bitter taste in the mouth.
I dont think that y-pipe design is going to work on an Auto car...it hugs the lines of the trans straight back pretty much. Ive yet to see any GOOD pictures of the underside of a 4l60e car to see what the clearance is around the pan. Besides, this is a custom project...you had to have expected to do some fabrication.. right? I wouldnt expect any special deals just to make up for the fitment issues with the headers. Maybe an exchange for a properly built set though...?
The O2 sensor hitting things has been an issue since day one. I had to beat my floor board to get mine to fit. All it needed was to be angled in a couple degrees. I was a lucky one and have tons of room between my collectors and my sub frames. However, I would really be concerned with the header flange hitting the temp sensor, and having to relocate transmissing controls to clear the collector outlets. There has to be a way around that.
Like I said...I havent seen a pic of an auto that was good enough to imagine what needs to be done.
I hate exhaust on f-bodies haha.
J.
__________________
ARE shortblock, Ross custom boost pistons, arp rod bolts, ARE ported oil pump,
MTI 2e 5.3L ported heads milled .030 with double springs,
228/224 113+1 Comp XE-R, Cloyes adjustable timing chain, LS6 valley cover,
fast 90mm intake, NW 90mm throttle body, SVO 30lb injectors, 85mm MAF,
ASP underdrive pulley, 160* t-stat, stainless LT headers 1.75" primaries
MAN!! Im so gald i didnt get those headers. I was about to buy them today but seen this post. Looks like im going to do the waiting game with you guys! Sorry to hear your having issues man. Im sure hawks will figure somthing out and help us with our few LS1/4L60E swaps here.
__________________ "WORD AND YOU KNOW THIS!!!"- Joey J
Hey guys, Bruce put a set on a vert today. As you know the 4L60E's don't have alot of room... with that being said this is what you will have to do if you are using an auto.
1st Picture: Trim the shift cable linkage
2nd Picture: Move the Cable from one side to the other (Circled)
NOTE: You will have to move the passenger side 02 sensor into your y-pipe, this is due to the fact that the 4L60E is HUGE!!!
Also in the 3rd picture that crossmember we are making will move the fuel lines into the corner piece (Circled)
Let me appologize for the extra work but these swap headers are designed for manual cars...
Thanks Hawks for coming back with a resolution. Still not sure if i would get them. I dont mind doing the work but man, there seems like no room for those headers. Not sure if i would want to move the o2 to the y-pipe. Wouldnt this cause way different readings?
__________________ "WORD AND YOU KNOW THIS!!!"- Joey J
on the passenger O2 sensor, couldnt you just move the bung up to 12 o-clock instead of 10 o-clock? looks like it wouldnt be a clearance issue. Just not sure how you would change the sensor lol.
Im tempted to buy these and work with them.
Hawks,
do the header bolts, bolt right up to the heads? I know screeminchicken had some problems?
__________________ "WORD AND YOU KNOW THIS!!!"- Joey J
The picture that is on your website that has the car with the 1 3/4 tube with 2.5" collector, its an auto 4l60e correct? was there any problems with those?
The picture that is on your website that has the car with the 1 3/4 tube with 2.5" collector, its an auto 4l60e correct? was there any problems with those?
We looked into moving it to 12 o'clock but the sensor would then hit the transmission tunnel. The 1-3/4"'s are at 12 o'clock and on the car in the picture on the website, we had to dimple the tunnel to get it to fit. That is the only other option is to move the bung to 12 o'clock, we even looked into finding a shorter sensor but none are available
Also since you would only be moving the sensor a minor distance it wont throw off any readings.
We are looking into screeminchicken's headers, but I can assure you if you do buy the headers if there is any problems with them I will take care you. Which there shouldn't be since they are made on a jig.
We looked into moving it to 12 o'clock but the sensor would then hit the transmission tunnel. The 1-3/4"'s are at 12 o'clock and on the car in the picture on the website, we had to dimple the tunnel to get it to fit. That is the only other option is to move the bung to 12 o'clock, we even looked into finding a shorter sensor but none are available
Also since you would only be moving the sensor a minor distance it wont throw off any readings.
We are looking into screeminchicken's headers, but I can assure you if you do buy the headers if there is any problems with them I will take care you. Which there shouldn't be since they are made on a jig.
did you also have to modify the tranny gear selector on the picture above with the 1 3/4 headers? So would the 1 3/4 have a better fit overall than the 1 5/8 headers?
did you also have to modify the tranny gear selector on the picture above with the 1 3/4 headers? So would the 1 3/4 have a better fit overall than the 1 5/8 headers?
The 1-3/4" headers had to have the same mods done to them.
Take some good pictures of the finish product. Get ready cause im promise you i will be the first one to order that tranny cross member! I PROMISE!! Plus the 1 3/4 headers! Just waiting to see how it comes out! Looking really good Bruce!
This is only my speculation, these headers where mostly designed around a T56, it may or may not clear the 4L60E. (I hope other 4L60e guys who has this combo will chime in and prove me wrong)
i called and told someone at hawks about this issue years ago.
i have one of the 1st 10 sets that were built.
no way id ever be able to use the 02 sensor holes.
i had to grind most of the bellhousing away on my th350. not a big issue to be, but to some its not a bolt on deal.
they will never fit with a th400 tranny.
i am actually mocking up a powerglide unit right now, but i dont know if they are going to clear the pan rail on the glide.
they were for sure made off a t56 car.
cant believe this issues havent been fixed by now.
saw it as a new post and figured id read.
i had to beat my passenger side frame to death to get the header to bolt up.
if you sit in heavy traffic idling for a while, youll get a rattle every now and then.
I did the magnet test. It sticks as a magnet only to the flange and not at all to the primeries I mean its like its made of brass or something.
No stainless is non magnetic so it sounds like the tubes are good but the flanges are not so good. Dont get me wrong its not going to make bupkiss difference in the long run of how the last etc. But the flanges will likely go darker than the piping will. That said even though mine are all non magnetic stainless after three seasons they are all golden brown now. Very dark but no leaks, no issues, great performance. Very pleased Hawks customer here thats for sure
As for after running fitment? Stainless is a funny metal and will pull and move around a little more than mild steel so after a few heat cycles a rub spot or two after initial install is totally normal IMO. Plus the engine mounts and trans mounts will settle in after you hammer on it some. These things are going to happen with pretty much any build so I wouldnt sweat that at all.
Sounds like Hawks is taking care of everyone as per norm and seeing as the shiny is true stainless I say bonus for that. Mine were satin ( natural finish ) and although look fine they do not look nearly as pimpin as them shiny ones do
Yea those pimpin' shiney headers are going on my car now. I bought them from him since I have a T56 and he wanted to wait until Hawks had a better solution for the autos.
No stainless is non magnetic so it sounds like the tubes are good but the flanges are not so good. Dont get me wrong its not going to make bupkiss difference in the long run of how the last etc. But the flanges will likely go darker than the piping will. That said even though mine are all non magnetic stainless after three seasons they are all golden brown now. Very dark but no leaks, no issues, great performance. Very pleased Hawks customer here thats for sure
As for after running fitment? Stainless is a funny metal and will pull and move around a little more than mild steel so after a few heat cycles a rub spot or two after initial install is totally normal IMO. Plus the engine mounts and trans mounts will settle in after you hammer on it some. These things are going to happen with pretty much any build so I wouldnt sweat that at all.
Sounds like Hawks is taking care of everyone as per norm and seeing as the shiny is true stainless I say bonus for that. Mine were satin ( natural finish ) and although look fine they do not look nearly as pimpin as them shiny ones do
certain grades of stainless CAN be magnetic.
not sure on the tubing, but that could be why the flanges have a lil charge to them.
my headers are strait gold and look great.
my flanges are just as silver as the day they come out of the box.
glad i have natural finish tubing, id send them back if they come out polished like that.
im a plain jane kinda guy.
ive got some polished valve covers im going to blast, so im a lil weird.
as for stainless getting tweaked, i understand that, but fitment on these headers is super tight on some cars and loose on others.
this could be due to body design, flex, tweak, what have you.
they are just a really tight fit.
i would make a few changes to them, but i dont build headers.
Yes I know and I made mention of this earlier in this thread but my "stainless is not magnetic" comment was directed towards the brass remark. I suppose I should have added "either" to the end of that sentence and maybe it would have saved the confusion. FWIW My head flanges are not magnetic at all but for whatever reason these new shiny ones are.
these headers WILL NOT WORK with a powerglide.
just mocked the tranny up and the drivers side collector is blocking anyway to hook up the linkage.
i never noticed this before, but the drivers side header is noticeably higher than the passenger side.
i didnt bother to measure it, but i bet a good 1/2 inch or more.
anybody want a nice used set of lsx swap headers?
getting ready to make a set. im about to that point.
__________________ 1988 IROC-z/28. 4th gen interior. 408 LSx
sporting the stock fuse box and taillights.
too many mods to type.
6.37@107.19 pump gas. all motor.
I put a set on my car without any real problems. I have an '83 with an LS1/th400 combo. I do not like how close the passenger collector is to the framerail. I am thinking about cutting it for clearance and plating it back in.
I put a set on my car without any real problems. I have an '83 with an LS1/th400 combo. I do not like how close the passenger collector is to the framerail. I am thinking about cutting it for clearance and plating it back in.
pics of it with the th400? that puppy has to be a pain to work around.
how close is the cable? they dont like heat.
just dont have any pictures of it. It was cake to put on too. all we had to do was make 2 pipes that went from my hawks lsx swap headers to the x-pipe, and everything else was direct bolt on.
anyways i scored a beautiful gas tank from an LS1 firebird today and it looks brand new! 
