LTX and LSXPutting LT1's, LS1's, and their variants into Third Gens is becoming more popular. This board is for those who are doing and have done the swaps so they can discuss all of their technical aspects, including repairs, swap info, and performance upgrades.
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hey all,
thought i would start a build thread to post to whenever things start happening. I have a 1985 Z28 that I am getting ready to put the LT1 and T56 from a 1995 Formula into. I bought the car this spring (my first car, though my parents let me use theirs to drive to school). The car made it from baltimore to my school in alexandria VA (like 80 miles), and then died in its spot. It currently has a carbed 350 out of a 69 chevy truck, and its really a piece of junk. The 700R4 is on its last leg, and really works hard to change gear. I decided that replace would be easier than rebuild, and have got my hands on this motor and transmission. I will be working on the car in school where it is kept with an auto club that i started. My school has never had an auto shop class or mechanic training course so this is the best thing we can do. I am good friends with the director of the energy systems lab and talked him into letting me store the car indoors, and work on it throughout the year. I have a few pictures of the car and the new hardware- school starts tuesday and i will start ripping things out. Im going to have to learn as I go, and work off of the money i saved over the summer. Any and all help is appreciated, and I cant wait to get started.
~Steven
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good luck. The best way to learn is to actually get your hands in there and do the work yourself.
Keep us updated. I will be doing a swap this winter. Already have the harness made and all the other little parts done. Just need to find a good car to put it in.
got the motor on a stand, and i have new plugs wires and gaskets coming in this week. once that is ready to go, i am going to take the harness off and start prepping it. Then i guess i will need to clean up the trans and get the crossmember for it from spohn, and i will bring the car inside and start tearing out the old motor.
The car made it from baltimore to my school in alexandria VA (like 80 miles), and then died in its spot.
Sorry, that's just kinda funny for some reason...
Actually, I had kind of the same thing happen to me - I drove like 250 miles one way to a dyno day that a local F-body group was having... And my injectors died, right there on the freakin' dyno... Had to get it towed in front of everyone (worse, I was the only thirdgen). The garage was able to get it running again, so I threw some money at 'em & started the long drive home. Had a buddy with me so I was able to keep it running while I fueled it & went inside to pay. Finally pulled into my garage, shut it off, tried it again, & no dice. I must've tried a half-dozen times, but it was dead...
Quote:
Originally Posted by kthxbai
I will be working on the car in school where it is kept with an auto club that i started. My school has never had an auto shop class or mechanic training course so this is the best thing we can do. I am good friends with the director of the energy systems lab and talked him into letting me store the car indoors, and work on it throughout the year.
THAT'S freakin' awesome, & I've gotta give ya props for that. A LOT of people wouldn't have the energy/confidence/drive to create that "out of nothing", so you get a big "thumbs-up" from me.
in the middle of doing new gaskets- decided to leave the opti seal since it is in good condition, and not take off anything past it since the silicon still looks good around the edges. doing new water pump gaskets after i clean it, new valve cover gaskets, and a few other i think. going to set my new spark plugs and get them in and wired up to the opti soon, then i will be ready to start going through and getting all the systems of the engine ready to run. headers should be soon as well.
headers are ready to go- powder coating the accesory bracket and water pump this weekend then they go back on, then rewire the whole thing, and it should be good to go. I need to replace most of the molded hoses and rubber parts on the engine though, so i guess i will need to go to a dealership for those?
change in plans- the lab is now getting two engine test stands with built in gauges, ignition, and fuel tank. i am going to set up the engine and cooling system, computer, etc. and try to do all of my troubleshooting before it goes in the car.
today i gapped my plugs, ran the new wires, and test fit my headers
i also cleaned up and gasketed my water pump then torqued it back down- i decided against trying to coat it.
Very cool. You can probably find most of the hoses (& a good percentage of the other parts) at a local parts place, like Advance Auto, Autozone, etc. And they're likely to be a good bit less expensive than the "$tealerships" are...
yeah i figured i should check out my local speed shops and parts stores before i order online etc.
one thing i am still very confused about if somebody could enlighten me is exactly how does the evap. canister system work? what am i going to need to do with that line that has a u bend in it and then just sits there?
Those are my old stomping grounds and my fam is still up in that area! What school do you go to? Good luck, bud... you're getting started on the same swap I'm hoping to do within a year or so.
Those are my old stomping grounds and my fam is still up in that area! What school do you go to? Good luck, bud... you're getting started on the same swap I'm hoping to do within a year or so.
i go to thomas jefferson in alexandria, but i live in oakton. also i just bought a neat intake cover piece that screws in with the fuel rails and hides the fins on the top of the intake. i also got a lot of the hoses from a part out to replace the dry rotted and cracked ones i have now.
aah... Thomas Jefferson. Smart man! Yeah I'd pass by there all the time. What teachers have you been working with? I did auto body over at Edison in 05 and 06, and still keep up with the guy who taught that. Craig Troup is the guys name - he's over at Marshall these days with their auto body program. If you're ever out that way, he's definitely an awesome guy to get to know...
Mr. Kemp is the director of the energy systems lab so hes letting me use his space for this. I havent talked to any other schools auto guys but im sure they are doing all kinds of other stuff as well- i only get a few hours a week on this, although im also giving up lunches and staying after etc to clean it up and make sure i get everything done.
tonight i bought poly motor mounts and transmission mount, tomorrow in school im powdercoating my accesory bracket and sand blasting the crank pulley
Glad to hear you're using this opportunity. I did the same thing and I've been so pleased with all the time I put into my project at the time ever since. Still have it! Here...
That thing is a blast to ride and aside from the kinda quick job I had to do on the headlight setup, I love the way it came out. It's going under the grind again this winter to get a new headlight setup/gauge mount/forks/brakes.
today i sand blasted my crank pulley or whatever its called that drives the serpentine, finished prepping my accesory bracket for some high temp paint, cleaned my power steering pump/pulley, and laser cut a plug for the intake silencer delete
That is awesome. I would love to do a budget LT1 swap to a thirdgen one of these days... Try and get everything done for under $2500. Then add some spray and run it. Looks like it will be pretty quick. When do you plan on finishing the swap?
asap, haha
looks like its going to take a while at this rate, but hopefully just a little ways into my being a second semester senior so i can mess around with it
that being said the latest it could possibly be is june when school ends, im shooting for january-march sometime probably, which works nicely since i cant register it until 2010 when it becomes an antique, because i dont have any emissions gear on it...
ahh thats sweet how you have access to a laser cutting machine. Everything is looking really good. Is your camaro the only at school getting worked on?? or are there other students working on their own projects?
__________________ My 89 trans am 13.2 @103 with stock suspension - summer '09 basically a 350 with a t56 Single turbo build has begun stay tuned
well as seniors we are required to enter a tech lab as a class for the whole year, and you complete a research project in whatever lab you get into. I am in the robotics lab, but there are like fourteen labs, with alot of different projects going on. the camaro is just a club/after school thing for me, so its like im doing two full projects... yeah- im busy...
but there is a solar car being built, a 72 jensen healey is getting converted to natural gas, etc. but no other real car projects are going on now.
painted my accesory bracket, now putting everything back together. a few things came up though- the spark plug wires have no good way through the bracket with the a/c delete pulley. I sort of crammed them through the only opening big enough for all four behind the tensioner. Also, the crank pulley hub is supposed to have 75 ft lbs on each of its three bolts, but obviously the crank shaft spins above like 30, how can i hold it in place and also which way is it supposed to turn, clockwise?
finally i need to know exactly how the power steering pump is mounted on there, i dont think i have any bolts for it.
so overall today, i got my bracket torqued back on, my spark plug wire holders zipped on both sides, started cleaning my intake stuff with tire shine, oh, and my engine test stand arrived today.
Here is what i am looking for currently:
-the best place for a cheap pcm tune
-fine details on mounting the accesories and torquing the crank pulley
-fuel delivery information!
-i found a vortech 85 psi inline pump for sale really cheap, and i was about to get it, but everyone on ls1lt1 kept saying i should get the whole fuel tank sender unit and lines out of a tpi car. is there anything wrong with just getting a high pressure/flow inline unit and upgrading the lines? i want this to be yes or no, i have gotten a lot of maybes, and i want to buy what i need soon. please tell me what i need to get.
Use a dremel to open up some room behind the AC delete. Cleanest routing Ive seen is two wires above the bolt and two below. If you cram the wires that close together, they wont last very long and LTx engines are not easy to do wire changes on
Scotch the flywheel with a screwdriver to torque the crank hub
Go with any high pressure fuel pump, walbro 255 is common. Go with a sending unit out of any EFI car. It doesnt have to be TPI
thanks so much pocket!
i kept getting parts of hypothetical answers but nothing straight, which gets really frustrating. i will definitely do what you said for the wires and hub bolts. i am looking for a tpi part out to get hard lines and a sending unit then ill buy a walbro.
here is a picture of a complete lt1 hopefully this helps you locate the power steering pump
The two circled spots are where the bolts go for the power steering. The holes on the pump will only fit one way. to see the holes you have to spin the pully until you see them. They should be two big bolts like 3" long or maybe longer. they should have been in the box.
I replaced my stock fuel pump with a walbro 255 intank and i personally like it, i didnt have to modify anything other than the plug on the pump. For me it was a very simple swap. An inline pump, from what ive heard and seen, are louder and hearable from both the outside/inside of the car and it seems like it would require more modifying to make it work. I would just go with the walbro 255, its really quiet and the install is not that bad really, drop your exahust, lower your rear end, drop the tank, remove old pump, put in new pump, install rear end, put exhaust back on, and done. Oh dont forget an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, you will need it, and while you're under there messing with that stuff you should go ahead and replace the fuel filter
here is a great thread with info on inline vs intank http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/tp...fuel-pump.html (In line or in tank fuel pump?)
as far as the crank pully goes, do what Pocket suggested.
Good Luck
__________________ My 89 trans am 13.2 @103 with stock suspension - summer '09 basically a 350 with a t56 Single turbo build has begun stay tuned
yeah i got the crank hub torqued down today with some help from a friend. i am going to dremel out the ac delete bracket tomorrow to run two wires over and two under that rightmost bolt.
i didnt think to look in the box for the power steering or alternator bolts, i hope theyre there i guess i had assumed everything in there was transmission related but i will check tomorrow.
the plan as of right now from what everyone has told me is to get the hard fuel lines and sending unit out of a tpi thirdgen, then put in a new walbro 255 in tank pump. i started searching for part outs today and may have found a good one.
You are sure lucky i wish i could take my car to my school and work on it we don't even have a auto class i have to go to college after school to work on my car. Good luck on your swap i am also thinking of doing the swap but its out of what i make
would this require any mounting hardware or would it just bolt on?
i found a guy with a tpi sending unit and fuel lines thats going to drop them off around thanksgiving probably. that said i will buy a walbro in tank pump and then whatever regulator and i should be finished with fuel delivery provided i also buy braided lines to run from the fuel rail to the hard lines, but i am waiting until the engine is in for that.
i was going through my photobucket account looking for a pic and i saw this one of the engine and the power steering pump seemed to have been on the with the screws when you took it home. Maybe the bolts are just laying around somewhere.
When i converted an lt1 intake for my tpi setup i used an accell adjustable fuel pressure regulator mainly because i had my distributor there so clearance was an issue
i really liked it, it was the same size as the stock one but it had a side vacumme port and it was neat looking not like the other big bulky ones. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ACC-74566/
it went down since i bought mine, i paid 110 for it
__________________ My 89 trans am 13.2 @103 with stock suspension - summer '09 basically a 350 with a t56 Single turbo build has begun stay tuned
That's reassuring because I ordered that exact accel and the walbro in tank pump off of summit like an hour ago haha. I've looked all over for the ps pump bolts- I honestly may have just lost them. If so I'll just find some at home depot, no big deal.
got the fpr installed- after spilling a lot of fuel from the rails all over myself lol
i need to know what to do with the evap canister purge solenoid, it runs a line to the drivers side that bends upward and goes to nothing, and one into the tb. can i remove the solenoid and cap the port on the tb? if not what do i need to do to make it work properly?
so after reading alot of shoeboxes comments and other things, i have decided to remove the evap canister purge solenoid, cap the vacuum source off the tb, and run either a vented gas cap, or a filter on the evap line from the tank.
i would like to just go for it, but if i have a test stand, why not?
all i have is noboostnogo's word on this motor, so i figure it cant hurt to troubleshoot it before i have to crawl around an engine bay and get confined. i dont even know how long it has been sitting, maybe he will see this and give us some history haha.
but yeah i figured why not since it is available to me?
Ah... well I agree if it was already available to you. Since you said you just assembled it, I figured it was something you went out and bought new. Those things aren't the cheapest... and since this seems to be trying to hit the swap with a decent budget, I didn't see the reasoning. Now reading back up in the thread though, I see where ya mentioned the school getting those stands. Sooo... nevermind
Have you cracked it open any to check it out internally? Valve covers... oil pan...?
Last edited by thenjoshsays; 11-10-2009 at 04:13 PM.
i would like to just go for it, but if i have a test stand, why not?
all i have is noboostnogo's word on this motor, so i figure it cant hurt to troubleshoot it before i have to crawl around an engine bay and get confined. i dont even know how long it has been sitting, maybe he will see this and give us some history haha.
but yeah i figured why not since it is available to me?
The engine was in storage for maybe 4 months before you came and picked it up. The history on the engine and tranny are pretty simple. My brother and i came across this great deal on a 95 formula with low miles that had been rear ended with the 6 speed. We pulled out the engine and tranny hoping to put the engine in my car and the t56 in a project rx-7 since i already had a t56 in mine. Plans changed, my brother bought a house, no time for rx7 project and i decided to go blow-thru turbo instead and thats when we decided to sell it. We did hear the engine run and we test drove the car before purchasing it. Even the clutch was still in great shape
yep everything looks great, it was just covered in dirt and grime from storage i suppose.
these things being said- do you think it is worth the extra effort to start it on the stand, or should I just drop this sucker straight in and go for broke? skipping the stand sounds appealing right about now considering i will need to fab up a few things to make it all work, plus trick the pcm into thinking the clutch is engaged etc. etc.
i would just drop the engine in the car and go from there. I feel like it would be alot of work getting all the wiring and stuff setup for the engine stand and then have to redo everything again for the car. I dont think the clutch switch is wired to the pcm i think its just a stand alone switch
__________________ My 89 trans am 13.2 @103 with stock suspension - summer '09 basically a 350 with a t56 Single turbo build has begun stay tuned
Ok well after talking to a few people and thinking it over I think I'll skip the stand. I should be able to bring the car indoors shortly, and I'll just get to it.
One question I have is which radiator to use- I bought a summit aluminum 3rd gen stock replacement radiator with 2 ten inch flexalite fans from a member here before I decided to do the swap, and I also have the 4th gen radiator and dual fans. The 3rd gen one is in new condition, whereas the 4th gen one has seen better days. All of the fans work for both, I tested them today.
Sorry, that's just kinda funny for some reason...
Had to get it towed in front of everyone (worse, I was the only thirdgen). The garage was able to get it running again, so I threw some money at 'em & started the long drive home. Had a buddy with me so I was able to keep it running while I fueled it & went inside to pay. Finally pulled into my garage, shut it off, tried it again, & no dice. I must've tried a half-dozen times, but it was dead...
.
88 Firebird Formula 350- 85,XXX miles *G92* *Ws6*
