LTX and LSXPutting LT1's, LS1's, and their variants into Third Gens is becoming more popular. This board is for those who are doing and have done the swaps so they can discuss all of their technical aspects, including repairs, swap info, and performance upgrades.
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Hey guys, I had more questions, but I found a thread almost just like this one while thinking of what to write that answered a lot. So, now I'm mainly wondering if anyone that used a truck motor could recall the costs involved in swapping the truck engine to LS1 F-body stuff? I was going LT1, but I keep reading about how it isn't worth it when LS motors are going so cheap. Well, around here LS1's are still pretty expensive, but truck engines are plentiful and cheap. I might go LSx as it would require pretty much everything an LT swap does, except for the engine/ trans (and other little things obviously). Just doing some research on the 5.3. Thanks for any help!!
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It depends exactly HOW cheap you can get the truck stuff for and how frugal you are hunting FBody/GTO pieces
For me the costs are adding near what a LS1 goes for
$200 5.3 long block
$220 Fbody pan and related
$20 Intake/bolts
$65 New LS2 coils and brackets Ebay buy-it-now typos rock
$40 fuel rail and misc sensors
$50 injectors
$40 waterpump and balancer
$75 MAC headers
$40 Fbody manifolds
$55 swap mounts with LS1 rubber things
$50 cut up truck harness
$11 V6 3rd gen harness
$30 flexplate
$50 JY trans, maybe worthless, havent ran it yet
$90 walbro fuel pump
~$250 Fuel lines, fittings, vette filter etc
$100 4L60E crossmemeber
~$30 in misc hardware
Im sure Ive forgotten some things and there are plenty of things left to buy still
If you can find a blown LS1 for cheap, go for it and grab a cheap 5.3. The cheapest is still the donor car route as the resale of other parts from it recoupes most of the out of pocket expenses and in some cases yield a profit in the end
It depends exactly HOW cheap you can get the truck stuff for and how frugal you are hunting FBody/GTO pieces
For me the costs are adding near what a LS1 goes for
$200 5.3 long block
$220 Fbody pan and related
$20 Intake/bolts
$65 New LS2 coils and brackets Ebay buy-it-now typos rock
$40 fuel rail and misc sensors
$50 injectors
$40 waterpump and balancer
$75 MAC headers
$40 Fbody manifolds
$55 swap mounts with LS1 rubber things
$50 cut up truck harness
$11 V6 3rd gen harness
$30 flexplate
$50 JY trans, maybe worthless, havent ran it yet
$90 walbro fuel pump
~$250 Fuel lines, fittings, vette filter etc
$100 4L60E crossmemeber
~$30 in misc hardware
Im sure Ive forgotten some things and there are plenty of things left to buy still
If you can find a blown LS1 for cheap, go for it and grab a cheap 5.3. The cheapest is still the donor car route as the resale of other parts from it recoupes most of the out of pocket expenses and in some cases yield a profit in the end
Thanks for the info Pocket. I wish I could find a complete donor car, but I'm in an area where Mustangs and imports rule, there are a FEW LS cars, but they are rarely even out, so there's next to nothing in the way of GM performance anything really. About as good as I can get to choose from is an LT1, the 4.8 and the 5.3, although there is a craigslist ad for a 98 LS1 motor and some parts for $2,600, tho it'd be a decent drive from here. Link to ad - http://rochester.craigslist.org/pts/1357466728.html that listing sound any good? One local junkyard (very close, prolly 10 mins away) doesn't have any LSx motors, but have about 5-6 LT1's at $450 a pop complete. On the other hand (which is why I ask) there's another yard like 30 mins away, that are starting to get numerous trucks with 4.8's and 5.3's and on their price list I have, it says they want $140 plus a $35 core ($175 total) for a complete engine, but most have a part or three missing (I noticed mostly TB's and emissions parts missing). So I'm lost, lol.
4.8/5.3 heads usually pull $150ish on ls1tech
Coils $120ish
sensors $60ish
harness $150
Avoid the craigslist LS1. Too many truck parts on it to be a 40k camaro dropout. More like he blew his camaro engine and got a cheap 5.3 replacement long block and put the truck crap on it. Now hes selling it as a complete dropout
Hey guys, I had more questions, but I found a thread almost just like this one while thinking of what to write that answered a lot. So, now I'm mainly wondering if anyone that used a truck motor could recall the costs involved in swapping the truck engine to LS1 F-body stuff? I was going LT1, but I keep reading about how it isn't worth it when LS motors are going so cheap. Well, around here LS1's are still pretty expensive, but truck engines are plentiful and cheap. I might go LSx as it would require pretty much everything an LT swap does, except for the engine/ trans (and other little things obviously). Just doing some research on the 5.3. Thanks for any help!!
Let's see...
I got an fbody oil pan with the windage tray and pickup tube for $130. I got the accessory brackets for $45 and the accessories minus the a/c compressor for $250 on LS1tech. The LS1 intake I got for $40 which you could probably find for free or close to it on LS1tech.
I've been hunting parts on LS1tech for the last week or so and you can get some really good deals. The 5.3L was going to be the route I went until I found someone in town here selling an LS1 for $300. Too hard to pass that one up.
If you don't get a complete setup (like my situation), the little things will add up. However, I find that the price the 5.3's are going for, it's still a very worthwhile swap.
best of luck!
__________________
1987 Trans Am, work in progress
2008 Pontiac G8
Retired: 1984 Camaro "ZF" 2.8L, 1989 Camaro RS
Customer Service Manager, 1A Auto Parts
you can use the injectors that come with the truck engine, that will save you some money. Same goes for the TB, most of the sensors, the alternator, and most of the wiring harness.
I'm of the opinion that a swap isn't worth it when you can just get some performance heads and a cam and make nearly as much or slightly more power with a Gen 1 SBC. Even if you make a little less power, it's a completely bolt up affair.
The 350 has nowhere near the power potential of the LSX, and even the modest little 5.3 can see over 450 HP with just a little porting and a cam. To do that with a 350 takes AFR 180 heads, for $1500, and a whole lot more. Do a stock LS2, and you can start out at 460 crank HP. (For all 3 engines in my example I'm taking headers for granted) No, the SBC is being replaced by the LSX for many excellent reasons. Bolt on simplicity is no comfort when you lose to an LSX car.
I'm of the opinion that a swap isn't worth it when you can just get some performance heads and a cam and make nearly as much or slightly more power with a Gen 1 SBC. Even if you make a little less power, it's a completely bolt up affair.
power may be similar, but most of us are doing it for a couple other reasons: drivability, tunability and fuel economy.
these blocks are putting out great numbers in stock form and are getting very good gas milage. Not to mention having better power curves all throughout the band.
tuning does not require burning and reburning chips. If you're not one who wants to dive into the intricacies of the computer, there is an ever growing group of people out there that can dyno tune the heck out of whatever you've got. I feel those doing TPI/TBI are becoming more of a minority these days.
finally, if you're comparing to a carb setup, you might make similar top numbers, but you'll never be as efficient with the rest of the curve as you do with FI.
but, as with everything else car-related, there is no one "right" way. we all have our own taste and ideas on what we'd like and how to get there.
tuning does not require burning and reburning chips. If you're not one who wants to dive into the intricacies of the computer, there is an ever growing group of people out there that can dyno tune the heck out of whatever you've got. I feel those doing TPI/TBI are becoming more of a minority these days.
There are several options available now for those that don't want to burn a million chips. Megasquirt is always good and Dynamic EFI's EBL system is a standard ECU that's been modified to be completely programmable. These systems can be tuned for great peak power, but with a little more effort can for tuned for excellent drivability and efficiency. A good set of aluminum heads with high compression and good quench with a tall O/D should make for good MPG. I think a lot of the issue is people not effectively utilizing the electronic ignition advance that's available to them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1A Dan
finally, if you're comparing to a carb setup, you might make similar top numbers, but you'll never be as efficient with the rest of the curve as you do with FI.
Agreed, carbs are teh suck for modern, non-track use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1A Dan
but, as with everything else car-related, there is no one "right" way. we all have our own taste and ideas on what we'd like and how to get there.
There are several options available now for those that don't want to burn a million chips. Megasquirt is always good and Dynamic EFI's EBL system is a standard ECU that's been modified to be completely programmable. These systems can be tuned for great peak power, but with a little more effort can for tuned for excellent drivability and efficiency. A good set of aluminum heads with high compression and good quench with a tall O/D should make for good MPG. I think a lot of the issue is people not effectively utilizing the electronic ignition advance that's available to them.
I too looked at the megaquirt for my last project. actually spent the time and money to build one and.......gave up . They are a bit of the exception to the rule, only because it is a reasonably priced system. Most of the other systems I've seen out there commercially are almost more expensive than most of us are paying for our complete gen3/4 motors.
I will completely agree that the fuel injection and ignition setup are a huge part of these engines' positives.
I too looked at the megaquirt for my last project. actually spent the time and money to build one and.......gave up . They are a bit of the exception to the rule, only because it is a reasonably priced system. Most of the other systems I've seen out there commercially are almost more expensive than most of us are paying for our complete gen3/4 motors.
That's a fair point. I like megasquirt for it's cheapness, but the EBL system is on the same price level as Megasquirt, but without the headache. Sure it's probably not as fancy or advanced as the aftermarket systems, but it's super easy to setup. It'll probably be what I go with on my own car, once my transmission swap is done.
But you can't deny that Gen 1 engine parts are cheaper than their Gen 3 counter parts.
It depends exactly HOW cheap you can get the truck stuff for and how frugal you are hunting FBody/GTO pieces
For me the costs are adding near what a LS1 goes for
$200 5.3 long block
$220 Fbody pan and related
$20 Intake/bolts
$65 New LS2 coils and brackets Ebay buy-it-now typos rock
$40 fuel rail and misc sensors
$50 injectors
$40 waterpump and balancer
$75 MAC headers
$40 Fbody manifolds
$55 swap mounts with LS1 rubber things
$50 cut up truck harness
$11 V6 3rd gen harness
$30 flexplate
$50 JY trans, maybe worthless, havent ran it yet
$90 walbro fuel pump
~$250 Fuel lines, fittings, vette filter etc
$100 4L60E crossmemeber
~$30 in misc hardware
Im sure Ive forgotten some things and there are plenty of things left to buy still
If you can find a blown LS1 for cheap, go for it and grab a cheap 5.3. The cheapest is still the donor car route as the resale of other parts from it recoupes most of the out of pocket expenses and in some cases yield a profit in the end
WOW! $11 for a V6 harness!? $50 for a tranny!? $55 for swap mount and clamshells!? I need to move to your town!
That's a fair point. I like megasquirt for it's cheapness, but the EBL system is on the same price level as Megasquirt, but without the headache. Sure it's probably not as fancy or advanced as the aftermarket systems, but it's super easy to setup. It'll probably be what I go with on my own car, once my transmission swap is done.
But you can't deny that Gen 1 engine parts are cheaper than their Gen 3 counter parts.
Sure we can. name any gen 1 heads that are aluminum, and can flow as well as stock LS1 heads, that can be had as cheaply as good used LS1 heads? They DON'T exist! Machine work on a 150,000 mile 350 block alone is more than the cost of a complete used 5.3, including 6 bolt mains and aluminum heads, which won't need a machine shop until well past the 300,000 mile mark.
Lotta good info floating around in here, thanks for posting everyone. I know for a fact, no matter which way I go, I am gonna do some kinda of F.I. I'm one of those who want a decent performing car, but also want the best mpg for that setup (not like 40 mpg, just good mileage for that particular setup), so I can actually drive it regularly if I want. The car had a non cc carb engine installed, so almost anything should net me some kind of mpg gain. I was kinda staying away from F.I. due to wiring, but after all the research I've done and what not, it doesn't seem so hard. I did think about an aftermarket F.I. system and using it on a Gen 1 sb, but idk, it just seems easier/ cheaper to me to just stick with the factory stuff and have everything in one package, plus I have no experience nor do I know anyone who has any with an add on system. Not saying it's bad, just not up my alley.
Concerning the prices of sbc stuff and Gen III, I got a bare set of 317 heads for $100, had them milled and after buying springs, pushrods, and rockers I have about $850 in them all together. And they are almost identical to LS6 243 heads, so they will outflow any stock casting sbc head. You'd have to go aftermarket to touch the capabilities of these heads on an sbc.
LSx gets BBC performance from a SBC size with just about every modern advance available
Quote:
WOW! $11 for a V6 harness!? $50 for a tranny!? $55 for swap mount and clamshells!? I need to move to your town!
Why did you buy MAC Headers and manifolds though?
Harness and trans are from here. Best JY ever. I actually got 2 V6 and 1 TBI harness for $11. They saw a pile of spaghetti and said 1 LG harness http://www.pullapart.com/
I got the Spohn mounts and brand new LS1 mounts off ebay attempting to snatch up a huge deal on some stainless swap headers. I lost the headers by $5 and won the mounts
Mac headers were very cheap and noone knows if they'll fit. They are plan A. Should plan A fail, manifolds are tried and true for plan B. Whichever I dont use ill resell
in my long gone 2002 chevy extended cab shrt bed truck with a 5.3 and a 4L80 i shoe horned in in place of the 4L60. the 60 would not handle the nitrous. with full bolt ons and a comp cam 226-228-581-588-114+4 and a 175 shot at 4950 pounds she would scorch out a 12.79@108. so yes i say a 5.3 is worth it.
__________________ YOU MUST ALWAYS PUSH THE LIMITS-IF YOU NEVER FAIL YOU WILL NEVER SUCCEED--NO FEAR!
yes sir it was. that engine is still going to. but i can tell you that there is hours of tuning on it also. and i really got tired of drilling and changing the jets on that one day. on a dyno from 11:00am till 6:00pm.
__________________ YOU MUST ALWAYS PUSH THE LIMITS-IF YOU NEVER FAIL YOU WILL NEVER SUCCEED--NO FEAR!
in my long gone 2002 chevy extended cab shrt bed truck with a 5.3 and a 4L80 i shoe horned in in place of the 4L60. the 60 would not handle the nitrous. with full bolt ons and a comp cam 226-228-581-588-114+4 and a 175 shot at 4950 pounds she would scorch out a 12.79@108. so yes i say a 5.3 is worth it.
Not a bad time for a truck at all, lol. I hear nothing but good things about the 5.3 from ppl I know driving silverados.
