LTX and LSXPutting LT1's, LS1's, and their variants into Third Gens is becoming more popular. This board is for those who are doing and have done the swaps so they can discuss all of their technical aspects, including repairs, swap info, and performance upgrades.
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Ive been sorta intermittent on this board, had alot of things change in my life, including picking up a 2nd project, moving and starting school to do Mechanical Engineering - Automotive Product Design.
Well, long story short, my iroc-z is currently a empty shell on a sketchy wooden cart sitting in the back of our shop, begging for some attention.
And attention it will get.
As it turns out, being in a school with a multiple hundred million dollar machine shop has some benefits!
During my CATIA credit times, ive decided to take advantage of my schools shop and make my iroc-z into something super.
Originally i had my sights on the LSX Shootout's "King of the street" (Fastest street car)
But ive since changed up my idea's, and ive decided a stupid fast car, that can hold its own in the twisties, drive comfortably, look stock, and rattle off a 9.99 at the end of the day.
Sounds like a hell of a project and believe me it will be!
Since im not rich at the moment, my first projects will be with the chassis.
Im going to repair any/all rust on the car, roll fenders, remove weight where safe to do so, and get working on my cage.
Plans for the cage is either a 10 or 12 point. Havent decided if i want to run the strut tower bars yet. Either way, i will design the cage in CATIA, and bend it here at school so that it tucks tight enough to the car that its hardly visible from the exterior of the car, and you can barely slip a finger between the cage and panels.
Also i will have the rear bars set in a way that they allow the retention of the rear seats. Not that they will be used, but this car has to look stock from every angle.
Seats will be stock, interior will look stock short of cluster and some strategically located gauges.
Idea's for exterior is a 91-92 Z28 look, but nothing that would hint theres much to the car. Perhaps some 18" wheels, so it just looks like a clean, slammed thirdgen with some nice wheels on it.
My chassis mods wont be too extensive. Cage will stiffen the car extensively, ill run coilovers on it, with 14" CTS-V brakes up front, then a 9" Differentiall with LS1 brakes (I scored a 9" Diff for $100, its sitting in the parking lot at residence :P ), ill have basic suspension compenents aftermarket, im aiming for a .9g skidpad, shouldnt be too hard, though the extra heft of the car may make things tough.
Inside& outside its going to look stock like mentioned above.
For the driveline, ive got everything pretty well thought out.
For the motor, its going to be forced induction obviously. Im not set on my motor at this point, only my forced induction system. Ill see what motor technology is avalilable when its time to build.
Its going to be a twin turbo setup, likely twin 70mm turbo's, they will dump to an X between the 2 then run 3" piping down to custom side pipes which i will modify the floors to allow to tuck up tight, then ill notch the GFX right before the rear wheels and ahve it exit right there. Similar to the Vipers. Ive figured out how to keep heat down from them so i dont bake the interior.
The turbo's will feed to a single FMIC which im going to have black so that you cant tell its turbo'd from the exterior, then it will run up to the intake.
Transmission will be automatic, likely 4L80e, then a heft driveshaft to 9" rear differential.
Few of the major projects that ill be doing at school:
-Cage
-Custom 1/8" steel wire bumper support to tuck intercooler and not do sketchy cutting of stock support
-Design for exhaust dump
-Turbo hot parts
-Turbo Cold side
Here's how she's lookin right now:
Its going to be a long build, but ill update all of it in here as i go. Its going to be a hell of a car ill build through college, then invest more when i finish school and settle into a job.
Thanks for readin guys!
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Based on how fast you cranked out that Trans Am swap, I bet you'll be driving this thing in no time.
*subscribed*
And on a side note, I'm jealous of your career path. I wanted to do automotive design but the engineering school I went to my freshman year didn't really have a program for it, and I hated the school so now I am going to be graduating with a finance degree in December. Oh well...
subscribed for more updates. Sounds like a great project
__________________
1987 Trans Am, work in progress
2008 Pontiac G8
Retired: 1984 Camaro "ZF" 2.8L, 1989 Camaro RS
Customer Service Manager, 1A Auto Parts
Nick - The program we've got here is pretty sweet, im still second guessing whether im going to stick here. Ive been mulling over the idea of heading out to the University of British Columbia to get a Masters in Mechatronics. Not sure if that will leave me more options in the end.
I'm going to offer some advice that may help you out in your project...
I like your ideas about the stock look and the upgrades that won't scream out "race car" - that is something people don't have restraint with these days.
4L80e is a bulletproof trans that costs a lot of $ to get it working right; a 4L60e or 700R4 will hold into the 700+hp range and may be all you need.
While a twin turbo is a great thing to have, it's not really a necessity on a 9.9 car, one that if you get into the 3200lb range only needs about 700hp to achieve. Since you have access to all these machines, why not build a 408 or 418ci LS3 that is going to put out about 600hp and then use a small nitrous kit to get you into the 9.90 range? There are plenty of high 10 second 346ci LS1 4th gens that run at 3600lbs, a lighter thirdgen with more power (more ci) would be at least in the mid 10's on the motor.
A stock IROC/Z28 on 275-40-17 rubber is going to corner in the .95g range, btw...
If you want a corner carver... why are you going automatic? I bet a T56 is lighter than a 4l80e too. Even better, a 5 speed TKO probably weighs less than a T56. But weight in the trans is hardly a terrible thing given it's low, centralized position in the car. If anything it might even help weight distribution so ...
But still, if your focus is on making a car that can corner go fast in a straight line, then go manual. if it's making a straight line car turn, go auto.
Of course, maybe you just mean "go around a corner" as opposed to "put up a respectable time around the nurburgring", in which case go with a failmatic.
Last edited by InfernalVortex; 10-28-2009 at 06:38 PM.
Subscribed. As with the others, I like the idea of a clean "sleeper" look, kinda what I'm trying for, but you sound like you might be able to pull it off . I think this is what the new GM High Tech project car is aiming to be too, 'cept they are using a 4th gen.
If you really are trying to make a corner carver, definatly go with the T56, if for no other reason than 6 gears to choose from, you are more likely to have the 'right' gear available to you.
Awesome man, sounds like a nice plan...sorta where i wanted to go with my car but its turning more race than anything...but still can handle well.
I like the twin turbo idea.. build a big inch small block and you wont have to run much psi to get 9's. I'm at 10.3's with weak launch and 10psi with a rough tune. Probly has 9.90's as it sits with tuning and proper launch but 12-13psi will definately get me there on good tune.
I like your ideas about the stock look and the upgrades that won't scream out "race car" - that is something people don't have restraint with these days.
While a twin turbo is a great thing to have, it's not really a necessity on a 9.9 car, one that if you get into the 3200lb range only needs about 700hp to achieve. Since you have access to all these machines, why not build a 408 or 418ci LS3 that is going to put out about 600hp and then use a small nitrous kit to get you into the 9.90 range? There are plenty of high 10 second 346ci LS1 4th gens that run at 3600lbs, a lighter thirdgen with more power (more ci) would be at least in the mid 10's on the motor.
A stock IROC/Z28 on 275-40-17 rubber is going to corner in the .95g range, btw...
Hopefully that means i could throw this thing over 1g with all tubular suspension and coilovers!
As for Twin turbo, i know its not a necessity for a car of this caliber, but honestly, it means i can run smaller turbo's and have more precision over my spool up speed. Since i own all the tuning software, a key to making this car be more street friendly, but still wicked fast will be multiple tunes. I want it to be reliable, and able to make long cruises. A situation where 8psi would make a potential failure, much less likely to happen, also means meth is not needed. Say a street tune could be 12ish psi, i could run meth with that, and it would still be reliable to tear around town and whatnot, but its not going to put any heavy prolonged wear (meth) on the motor. As a pure hp setup, i figure 16-18psi at the track, where it see's 10seconds or less of max effort stress on the motor.
As for a nitrous motor, im not big into nitrous. I find a nitrous motor to be a bit of a dog on the street. However a multiple tune setup would correct this issue.
Either way, i want something thats more perminent, complicated and exciting. I know it wouldnt take much to build a bulletproof motor and spray a 300shot at it, but to build up a twin turbo motor, that is well put together and functions good i feel takes more engineering and is more respectful. Not to mention boost is always avaliable by getting your foot in it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InfernalVortex
If you want a corner carver... why are you going automatic? I bet a T56 is lighter than a 4l80e too. Even better, a 5 speed TKO probably weighs less than a T56. But weight in the trans is hardly a terrible thing given it's low, centralized position in the car. If anything it might even help weight distribution so ...
But still, if your focus is on making a car that can corner go fast in a straight line, then go manual. if it's making a straight line car turn, go auto.
Of course, maybe you just mean "go around a corner" as opposed to "put up a respectable time around the nurburgring", in which case go with a failmatic.
This is true. I guess thinking 1/4 mile wise, automatic is a better choise, but quite frankly, its not going to see as much 1/4 time as it will street/twisty duty.
I know one of the 6spd vette's i build made 949rwhp, and runs a 9.89@159mph. 6spd's tend to take more power for a given ET (sub12's i find) so as a 6spd, to meet my 1/4 goal, id have to make sure the motor is well over 1000hp @ the crank. honestly, no big deal, ive built 10+ vette's that made over 850rwhp. It doesnt take much with the LSx platform.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ
I like the twin turbo idea.. build a big inch small block and you wont have to run much psi to get 9's. I'm at 10.3's with weak launch and 10psi with a rough tune. Probly has 9.90's as it sits with tuning and proper launch but 12-13psi will definately get me there on good tune.
Thats true. Originally i had been thinking of a 454ci LSX block based motor. 6 bolt heads means reliable under boost, iron block means i aint gonna exceed its hp capacity, and 12psi of boost will be well over 900rwhp at 454ci. Hell, a buddy of mines 440ci warhawk TT vette makes 1161rwhp @17psi
Just be aware that any decent motor under 12 psi or so will be a bear to drive on the street...it wont hook up when you get on it. My motor drives around great but if you try to get down on the throttle under 50-55 mph in 3rd gear it will blow tires apart. Just a 3.42 gear and 295/30/19 street tires. 1st and 2nd gear are useless unless at the track. Lots of power but if it dont hook on the street its not gonna be a fun car to drive
Just be aware that any decent motor under 12 psi or so will be a bear to drive on the street...it wont hook up when you get on it. My motor drives around great but if you try to get down on the throttle under 50-55 mph in 3rd gear it will blow tires apart. Just a 3.42 gear and 295/30/19 street tires. 1st and 2nd gear are useless unless at the track. Lots of power but if it dont hook on the street its not gonna be a fun car to drive
Thats very true. 800rwhp i found to be a sweet spot in the vette's i built. At that power level it was still streetable, you could control the power and if you really had to, you could move around in a city environment without too much trouble. 6spd with slipable clutch makes that a bit easier.
900+ was more race power level, if you went out to pass someone and gave it some throttle to get moving to pass, you just passed them sideway.
Thats very true. 800rwhp i found to be a sweet spot in the vette's i built. At that power level it was still streetable, you could control the power and if you really had to, you could move around in a city environment without too much trouble. 6spd with slipable clutch makes that a bit easier.
900+ was more race power level, if you went out to pass someone and gave it some throttle to get moving to pass, you just passed them sideway.
i dont think i'm much over 600whp through this converter/automatic and I have problems trying to hook while doing quick merges/pullouts from intersections to busy roads... its horrible lol
Driving around its tame as can be, actually too weak for me. But the turbos turn on very hard and very quick when you get on it, and it just spins tire. I cant imagine the 800+whp levels. maybe the stick shift is easier to control, but maybe not.
As for a nitrous motor, im not big into nitrous. I find a nitrous motor to be a bit of a dog on the street. However a multiple tune setup would correct this issue.
I have never heard nitrous motors having this problem - unless you have a 400hp engine that is built to take a 400hp nitrous hit to get quick ETs.
A 600hp stroked LSX motor with a 200hp nitrous hit is going to be in the 9's with the added advantage of controlling how much TQ hits the wheels.
900+ was more race power level, if you went out to pass someone and gave it some throttle to get moving to pass, you just passed them sideway.
I literally busted out laughing when I read that... Sounds like you'd definitely want a plastic interior that could be hosed off easily...
You guys are talking about stupid horsepower levels - but I love turbos as well. If I ever do anything with forced induction, it's not even a decision for me. (Gonna give away my age here, but...) When I was 17 or 18, I worked at a Buick dealership, right when the GNs & T-Type Regals were new. Oh man, was THAT a fun job sometimes! For me, there's just nothing for streetable power like a turbo.
88 Firebird Formula 350- 85,XXX miles *G92* *Ws6*
. I think this is what the new GM High Tech project car is aiming to be too, 'cept they are using a 4th gen.
14psi, street tune 
Sounds like you'd definitely want a plastic interior that could be hosed off easily... 
For me, there's just nothing for streetable power like a turbo. 
