(Read post #37) Those with the Spohn T56 cross member...enter.
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(Read post #37) Those with the Spohn T56 cross member...enter.
Ok so what's the deal?? I knew that there might be fitment issues with running duals off the SSW longtubes when using this cross member, but I never would have imagined having problems getting the cross member to physically mount to the car??
Has anyone else had problems getting this thing to mount to the frame rails? I have the Alston Racing sfc's, and from eye-balling it I will need to trim off just a small part of the mounting tabs for the cross member, but the MAJOR problem I found out tonight was that I can't get the mounting tabs to sit flush with the frame rails. Are these supposed to be used without a trans mount? I couldn't get the thing anywhere CLOSE to the frame rail without removing the trans mount, and even still the forward-most part of the mounting tabs will touch the frame rail while the rear-most part of the tabs are like 3 inches away from even touching.
HELP!!!
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Ok then that brings me to my next point. Why the heck is the design so wacked out, that the "fins" on the sides face downwards. It really hurts ground clearance:
In my defense, I actually installed it the correct way at first, but when I saw how low the fins hung to the ground I figured it had to be on upside down (horrible design if I may say so myself).
Yea, that is the complaint about everyone from the spohn cross members with lowered cars, but HELL, my exhaust hangs lower so i dont give a care in the world.
Ok then that brings me to my next point. Why the heck is the design so wacked out, that the "fins" on the sides face downwards. It really hurts ground clearance:
This helps you in deep water when you hydroplane by keeping you going straight, its an added bonus
That's about the only thing I can see it being used for haha
Zone- you're going to run dual exhaust with dumps before the axle on your setup, and you are using the spohn cross member? I would like to see how that works out for you.
I have the same set up T56 with the Spohn T56 mount. When I put on the SSW headers they were pointed right at the mount. So I am building my custom double hump crossmember with a Spohn Torque Arm mount this weekend. I will post pictures as soon as I get it complete.
Nick..now you see why I had to trim it..and ultimately why I built my own.
In my humble opinion...the Drews just doesnt cut it. I was able to twist that thing in my hands. I wasnt going to put effort into mounting my tq arm to it. Plus...the one I ordered didnt fit. I ended up shipping it to another customer of his since he didnt have any on hand. Im not even sure he still makes em?
Ground clearance wasnt really an issue. My hawks y-pipe hung down even further than that thing. And I was lowered. I never really scraped the xmember. Maybe over larger speed humps.
But, for all intents and purposes, it will work. You'll have to be creative with your exhaust routing..but it will work. Its certainly a strong piece..even with my cuts. haha.
J.
__________________
ARE shortblock, Ross custom boost pistons, arp rod bolts, ARE ported oil pump,
MTI 2e 5.3L ported heads milled .030 with double springs,
228/224 113+1 Comp XE-R, Cloyes adjustable timing chain, LS6 valley cover,
fast 90mm intake, NW 90mm throttle body, SVO 30lb injectors, 85mm MAF,
ASP underdrive pulley, 160* t-stat, stainless LT headers 1.75" primaries
Given the huge ground clearance isseus with those, I dont see why anyone would buy a Spohn x member. Even if you never scrape the crossmember, you severely complicated your options when it comes to potentially running a dual exhaust.
Well that is refreshing. There should be enough room to shoot the exhaust off to the passenger side and run a y-pipe right?
Yes. Thats why the sides were cut. Those fins used to run all the way to the front of the x-member. You can sneak it around if you are careful. Just leave enough room for drivetrain movement.
Check my old thread about the hawks y-pipe. There are pictures and you can sorta see what you'll need to build. Too bad I chopped mine up to build my current y-pipe or Ide send it to you as a starting point.
Zone- you're going to run dual exhaust with dumps before the axle on your setup, and you are using the spohn cross member? I would like to see how that works out for you.
Negative, it is going to be side exit and it is a 461 big block. The exhaust routing is a bit different than some of my panzy small blocks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InfernalVortex
Given the huge ground clearance isseus with those, I dont see why anyone would buy a Spohn x member. Even if you never scrape the crossmember, you severely complicated your options when it comes to potentially running a dual exhaust.
Becaus enot all of us run a small block. Massive torque and sticky tires require more than an average cross member. So for people like me, it is the hot ticket.
Now for the T56 going in my T top car with the ***** 305, i am making that one myself.
Negative, it is going to be side exit and it is a 461 big block. The exhaust routing is a bit different than some of my panzy small blocks.
Becaus enot all of us run a small block. Massive torque and sticky tires require more than an average cross member. So for people like me, it is the hot ticket.
Now for the T56 going in my T top car with the ***** 305, i am making that one myself.
You think that giant chunk of angle iron under your car is the best way to make a strong crossmember? I'd be more impressed if it were fully boxed. It'd take up less space that way. I find it absolutely ridiculous you guys settle for this stuff.
I guarantee you those bolts that hold that thing in are going to break before that crossmember does. That thing is solid.
Even if you don't agree with that assessment, I dont see how a giant chunk of angle iron hanging down that low is acceptable. You can make a strong crossmember without making it a transmission-mounted air dam.
And in my opinion with how far back the mounts are for these 4th gen transmissions, I dont think mounting the torque arm on the crossmember is a great idea. I'll have a separate crossmember for the torque arm before I mount it to the trans crossmember. The metal in those frame rails is soft enough that I worry about those bolts pulling out as it is.
Last edited by InfernalVortex; 11-08-2009 at 05:37 AM.
under acceleration, the torque arm tries to go up. right? so it wouldnt be doing anything but pulling the crossmember in to the body. bolts and the enderside should be fine. he puts an extra slot in each side so you can use 3 bolts per side if you're that worried about it. im not happy with mine. but i got it second hand for a great price and it does what i need it to do. mt car still has the torque arm mounted to the tailshaft of the transmission too
You think that giant chunk of angle iron under your car is the best way to make a strong crossmember? I'd be more impressed if it were fully boxed. It'd take up less space that way. I find it absolutely ridiculous you guys settle for this stuff.
If i was picky, and needed exhaust clearance, i would go a different route. But my setup is spherical ball mounted too.
My Spohn cross member is just as boxed in as that one is.
People "settle" for the pre-made crossmembers because they want to bolt things together. There are inconviences with the spohn unit..but IT WORKS. You need to accomodate it...but it works. And you dont have to fab one. That was the beauty of it, and why I purchased it initially.
However...the convience of having something bolt on quickly disappeared when I tried to re-work the exhaust. So the double hump is the way to go.
Ive got heavy angle for my side mounts, and 1x3 rectangular tubing for my cross brace. Also using 3 bolts per side, drilled and re-tapped for standard hardware. My torque arm will snap in half before that crossmember moves. Im not really seeing how a crossmember mounted torque arm would ever cause the bolts to come out of the crossmember, or any damage to the crossmember. Unless things are so rusted and weakened...in which place you REALLy shouldnt be doing motor swaps into that car until you fix other issues.
The only option, in my opinion, for having a good crossmember with a good fitting/flowing y-pipe and good ground clearance is....to build your own stuff. Or have someone build it for you. There just isnt anything available, now, that fits the bill. If I had the space and time and investment money, I would probably be welding up a handful of double humps with torque arm mount and probably make a killing.
Nothing wrong with the track pack or whatever its called from BMR and others. In fact, if I ever completely re-work my rear suspenion, Ill probably be going with a chassis mounted torque arm. But since most people have standard tq arms or standard length arms, trans crossmember mounted is quick and easy.
Im really surprised that there hasnt been any advancements from the big names with the crossmember and exhaust situation. I could never figure out why Hawks and Spohn didnt get together and collaborate to make a y-pipe and xmember that jived together.
J.
__________________
ARE shortblock, Ross custom boost pistons, arp rod bolts, ARE ported oil pump,
MTI 2e 5.3L ported heads milled .030 with double springs,
228/224 113+1 Comp XE-R, Cloyes adjustable timing chain, LS6 valley cover,
fast 90mm intake, NW 90mm throttle body, SVO 30lb injectors, 85mm MAF,
ASP underdrive pulley, 160* t-stat, stainless LT headers 1.75" primaries
Last edited by ghettocruiser; 11-09-2009 at 09:55 AM.
^^^ With your last statement, I'm also disappointed. You would think SOMEONE would be out there making a nice piece for this swap considering it's increasingly becoming the most popular swap for these cars it seems.
Ok I finished trimming the cross member and the passenger side sfc to get enough room to mount it flush with the frame. It doesn't look toooo bad I don't think.
Ok....so is it virtually impossible to mount the torque arm to the cross member when the cross member is already on the car, or am I crazy? I was trying to get the torque arm tonight and literally could not get it to position right with the bushing on the cross member. I have some pictures to show my failed attempt to mount it. Mind you, the bushing for the torque arm isn't even mounted yet, and I put the pinion angle on it way high to get it this far above the cross member. Input and suggestions would be very helpful.
Also, the rear bolts are already in position on the rear end, so it's where it needs to go back there, I can't figure out why this thing is so much longer than it needs to be (or at least it seems that way). The bushing on the end adds another 3" or so, and I don't think the rotator plates will reach that far. Also, the passenger side rotator plate can't position upwards because it hits the tail shaft of the transmission, or the knuckle for the driveshaft, I can't remember which. What the heck is the deal here???
Re: (Read post #37) Those with the Spohn T56 cross member...enter.
I suppose that, is always a possibility, which would extremely frustrate me because I made them verify TWICE that I was ordering the T56 torque arm. I think I'll see if anyone has pictures of how theirs mounted before I call Spohn.
Re: (Read post #37) Those with the Spohn T56 cross member...enter.
Nick..Man you cant catch a break can ya?
Its actually kinda hard for me to tell in those pics. The bushing end threads all the way into the end of the torque arm, so it should sit right above the mount bushing on the crossmember. I grabbed some pictures of my stuff as comparison.
Unfortunatly, I dont have any pictures of the poly bushing installed onto the spohn xmember. But here are two pics of the poly bushing end installed. You can kinda see the relation to the end of the trans.
The next three are with the solid rod end attached to my custom xmember. Dont pay attention to the angle of the side connectors...thats how I built my xmember.
What I wanted you to see, is the top "bolt" on the connector plates. See how thats just a stud welded into the top plate? I believe they did this due to clearance issues with the tail shaft. Thats why I was surprised that the plates they sent you did not have this...because I dont know how a bolt would work up there. Its pretty close. But..it might be ok.
One thing I can say...I have to put the rod end/poly end on, then slip on and loosly bolt the plates to the rod end/poly end. And to slip that stud into the rod end, I have to really pull the torque arm down and to the drivers side. Or I have to loosen the end and twist it to make it fit. Its a bit fiddly either way.
Ide like to see what your arm looks like with the poly end threaded all the way into the end. Also...did you adjust the torque arm any? Because the rear will sit funny until that torque arm is attached. It should have come set up close to factory pinion angle from Spohn..at least, thats what he was doing before...
Re: (Read post #37) Those with the Spohn T56 cross member...enter.
I had one with bolts on both ends of the pivot and yes it was really close but did fit. I'm pretty sure you have to bolt together the torque arm side first then the crossmember side as said before. And yes thread the bushing in as far as you can on the torque arm. Hope this helps and good luck.
Re: (Read post #37) Those with the Spohn T56 cross member...enter.
You might have to drop the crossmember down, then thread the poly end on all the way, pull the torque arm down to clear the trans, install the plates with the bolt loosely, then bolt the crossmember back up.
Depends how much wiggle room you have under there.
Re: (Read post #37) Those with the Spohn T56 cross member...enter.
Damn bro, you seem to be making things hard on yourself. Yes, you need to install the TQ arm on the cross member, then bolt it to the frame rails. Like they said, put the mount in the TQ arm as far as possible.
Re: (Read post #37) Those with the Spohn T56 cross member...enter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZONES89RS
Damn bro, you seem to be making things hard on yourself. Yes, you need to install the TQ arm on the cross member, then bolt it to the frame rails. Like they said, put the mount in the TQ arm as far as possible.
I think it would have made more sense to me if I bought them all at once instead of piecing it together like I did.
I'll give it a try tomorrow night, don't have time today with class all day and this evening. I'm gonna try and do the PCV system done today between classes.
Re: (Read post #37) Those with the Spohn T56 cross member...enter.
Just to clarify... I wouldnt install the tq arm to the crossmember, and then try to bolt the crossmember up. Just make sure you have the poly end threaded on, and the plates installed on the poly end. So...the bolt run through and nut loosely on. You should be able to mount the crossmember then without having to wrestle with the tq arm. Then bolt the lower part of the plates to the bushing on the crossmember.
It should go together. Your tq arm pictures look pretty similar to mine and others as far as length.
