LTX and LSXPutting LT1's, LS1's, and their variants into Third Gens is becoming more popular. This board is for those who are doing and have done the swaps so they can discuss all of their technical aspects, including repairs, swap info, and performance upgrades.
Welcome to ThirdGen.org!
Welcome to ThirdGen.org.
You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, join the ThirdGen.org community today!
This thread is to help swappers finish up their install. It isnt complete yet, early year pinouts are still needed
That is a 98 Fbody LS1 CTS. If you go to a common parts store asking for a CTS, you will most likely get a 2 pin version correct for pretty much ALL GM engines except 98. Ask for the temp sender
Pocket, I don't know what most of us would do without you when it comes to the electrical end of the LSx swaps. Subscribing in anticipation of my swap this spring.
Pocket you are a genius. I have a question doing the 96 LT1 swap. I have the 3rd gen pretty good but the LT1 part is confusing for some reason. I prep'd my third gen harness but where on the LT1 harness do I start to plug in my wires, near the pcm or......? My harness for the Lt1 came with the fuse box attached but no fuses and two relays attached to it and a black (which seem to be a battery ground cable) battery cable thats mounted inside of the fuse box. I ordered a shop manual for the 96 LT1 which will hopefully go in to detail but i need to know where the red( positive battery cable) comes from for the fuse box. is that black cable the power or ground? your diagram is in its simpliest form but in the chart(side by side) from the c100 to the LT1 is that what wires match up. I know I asked alot but I want to do a compiled tutorial for the non technical people who just dug in with no skill or know how.....like me. I have learned so much from these message boards and TGO so thanks to you fine folks here.
This thread will NOT be going over LS1 fuseblocks, dashes or anything other than a plain jane LS1 in 3rd gen swap. A thread covering those maybe in the works for later, but not at this time
In other words, I cant help you with the fuse block because I simply do not know. I do know the stock 3rd gen fuseblock/relay center is more than capable of controlling your LT1 and is already in place, functioning
It sounds like you got a B-body harness as the 4th gen Fbody harness has a separate fuse block. Regardless, a fuseblock will never be a source of heavy grounds, esp for a battery cable. IIRC that cable went to the alt output
The connection chart shows what needs to be spliced where to the swap harness. It doesnt go into detail about the pieces that still need to be plugged in, like the brake sensor, starter solenoid wire etc. These are still critical, but are not directly spliced into the new harness
Go over the LS1 harness thread. Its not identical, but the procedure is the same: marking, disassembly, mockup, lengthening, etc.
Use this diagram to help get you started
I havent made one for the 96-97 cars yet, they added a few connectors
I just prepped 3 '89 harnesses. They are very similar to the 90-92 TBI with the VSS running through the C100. To use these, the buffer box must be bypassed and the speedo signal send through the C207(same pin actually). 85-88 cars had a separate connector near the C207 for injector fuses. Ill cover these when I find one
They also ran the fan fuse through the C207 and changed the wire color from BRN to TAN/WHT. I remember from a while back that someone said the fuel pump wire ran through the C207. It doesnt, it still uses the same pin as posted above in the C100. The fuel pump wire that goes through the C207 is for the ALDL bypass and is generally cut out in the prep. Theres no point in keeping it since the OBDI ALDL is being removed/made inop and the OBDII ALDL has no provision for direct fuel pump control. This is true for the 90-92 cars as well, s dont be confused when you see a GRY wire spliced into your oil switch and fuel control in that area
Hey, I just wanted to add this for the fuel line diagram. I originally was using every single part number you had listed on that diagram, but the stainless line, being very thick and bulky, wouldn't bend short enough to go where I wanted it to under the engine bay, so I removed the RUS 610020 on the fuel rail and replaced it with a 90* swivel, part number RUS 613160. The reason for this is because with the SSW long tubes, and the thickness of the fuel line, the fuel line was way too close to the header going the factory route, so I re-routed it behind the block and down the transmission tunnel, and it comes out by the cross member, avoiding the header completely.
Before with the RUS 610020 (it was angled too high for my opinion, because I had to bend the fuel rail when using truck coils)
And now with the RUS 613160
__________________ 2nd Place Modified Camaro - ThirdGen Fest '11 LSX / T56 combo, 420rwhp 407 ft./lbs. custom Ford 8.8" with 9" axle tubes, 4.10's and Ford Racing Cobra diff, Moser axles, LS1 brake swap front and rear, Hawks 1 3/4" longtubes, forged internals, TSP MS4, LS6 intake, Spohn LCA's/torque arm/cross member/k member/subframe connectors, Alston subframe connectors, Hotchkis springs, poly motor/trans mounts & sway bar bushings/end links, Memphis Audio / Pioneer audio system, etc etc et
Nick, where did u get you SS braided lines ? did they come precut lenghts with fittings crimped on the ends or di u have to make it ?
part # and place would be great.
Also the black braided lines that Spike-Z used looks awesome. links for that Spike
I got it from Jeg's, I will try to get the part number after work. I got a 20 ft piece, it doesn't come with fittings, you have to put them on yourself. I got the -6AN size line.
__________________ 2nd Place Modified Camaro - ThirdGen Fest '11 LSX / T56 combo, 420rwhp 407 ft./lbs. custom Ford 8.8" with 9" axle tubes, 4.10's and Ford Racing Cobra diff, Moser axles, LS1 brake swap front and rear, Hawks 1 3/4" longtubes, forged internals, TSP MS4, LS6 intake, Spohn LCA's/torque arm/cross member/k member/subframe connectors, Alston subframe connectors, Hotchkis springs, poly motor/trans mounts & sway bar bushings/end links, Memphis Audio / Pioneer audio system, etc etc et
Two options to bypass this to start the new engine
1) Splice the two heavy wires together. This cuts out the relay and relies on the shifter (auto) or clutch switch to protect against in-gear starts
2) Ground the BLK/YEL wire. This retains the relay but satisfies the circuit. Using a hidden toggle switch to ground the relay makes a simple way for anyone to give a measure of anti-theft to the car
I took about 2 hours to go over a couple shop manuals to research the C207 pinouts. The later years were pretty easy to follow - but in order to obtain the pinout map for the early cars I had to basically look at every page and search for the C207 Marker !! The wiring got pretty messy in 85 and was VERY specific to the Engine/tranny set-up in each car. Here's the Pin out's for the 82, 84, & 85 Camaro Line-up:
1982 C207
Black Plug
PIN Color From / To (Notes)
A Brn ALDL / ECM (AIR control)
B
C Wht Light Driver / ECM
D Tan Oil Pres / Gage (L4)
E Wht/Blk ALDL / ECM (test)
F Pnk/Blk IGN fuse / EGR-ECM
G Pnk/Blk Gge fuse / AC Comp Relay
White Plug
PIN Color From / To
H Tan/Blk ALDL / TCC-ECM
J
K* Brn ECM / VSS
K* Ppl Brake / TCC ( V6 )
L Org/Blk ECM / P/N switch ( V6 )
M Blk/Wht VSS,P/N switch / Grd
N Org/Blk ECM / P/N switch ( V8 )
P* Ppl Brake / TCC ( V8 )
P* Brn ECM / VSS
1984 C207
Black Plug
PIN Color From / To (Notes)
A Brn ALDL / ECM (AIR control)
B Dk Blue BU Fuse / Back Up Switch ( T5 only )
C Wht/Grn Light Driver / ECM
D Tan Oil Pres / Gage (L4)
E Wht/Blk ALDL / ECM (test)
F Pnk/Blk IGN fuse / EGR-ECM
G Lt Green BU switch / Rev Lights ( T5 Only )
White PLug
PIN Color From / To
H Tan/Blk ALDL / TCC-ECM
J Org ALDL / ECM ( L4)
K Brn ECM / VSS
L Tan/Wht Fuel Relay / Fuel Pump ( L4 )
M Blk/Wht VSS,P/N switch / Grd
N Org/Blk ECM / P/N switch
P Ppl Brake / TCC ( V8 )
R Ppl Crk Fuse / EFI (L4)
1985 C207
Black Plug
PIN Color From / To (Notes)
A Brn ALDL / ECM (AIR control)
B* Dk Blue BU Fuse / Back Up Switch ( V8 T5 )
B* Red ALDL / Fuel Relay ( V6 - TPI )
B* Org/Blk FP FUSE / Fuel Relay ( L4 )
C* Brn/Wht ECM / CE Light ( L4- V6 - TPI )
C* Wht/Grn Light Driver / ECM ( LG4 & L69 )
D* Blk/Org FP/INJ fuse / Fuel Relay ( L69 )
D* Tan/Wht Puel Relay / Fuel Pump ( V6 )
D* Lt Blue Puel Relay / Fuel Pump ( TPI )
D* Tan Oil P Sensor / Oil P Gauge ( L4 )
E Wht/Blk ALDL / ECM (test)
F Pnk/Blk IGN fuse / EGR-ECM
G* Dk Blue BU Fuse / Back Up Switch ( V8 T5 )
G* Pnk/Blk Gage Fuse / MAF Relay ( V6)
G* Pnk/Blk Gage Fuse / Burn Off Relay ( TPI )
G* Pnk/Blk Gage Fuse / Air Cond Relay ( L4 )
White Plug
PIN Color From / To
H Tan/Blk ALDL / TCC-ECM
J* Ppl Starter / Fuel Relay ( L69 )
J* Org ALDL / ECM ( L4 - TPI )
K Brn ECM / VSS
L Tan/Wht Fuel Relay / Fuel Pump ( L4 - L69 )
M Blk/Wht VSS,P/N switch / Grd
N Org/Blk ECM / P/N switch
P Ppl Brake / TCC
R Ppl/Wht Crank Fuse / Cold Start-ECM ( V6-L4 )
On several of the diagrams the wire color changed from one side of the plug to the other ( dash harness vs. ECM harness.) In this case I used the DASH harness color. I did not take the time to pull out each of the dash harnesses from Stock to review tham - so It's possble that I missed a wire or 2. If anyone spots a problem just let me know and I'll edit.
Plug C221 ( From 1985 Shop Manual )
A Pnk/Blk Inj2 Fuse / Even Fuel Injectors
B Lt Green Back Up Switch / BU Lights ( V6-T5 )
C Brn Fuel Pump-Fan Fuse / Fan Relay ( V6 - TPI )
D Pnk/Blk Inj1 Fuse / Odd Fuel Injectors
E
F Dk Blue Back Up Fuse / Back Up Switch ( V6-T5 )
Hope this helps !
Last edited by John in RI; 11-28-2009 at 01:50 AM.
Reason: Added C221 info
Tracing each indiv wire until it had a C207 connector was how I made the 90-92 diagram up top. Why GM didnt put that info in the diagram from the start Ill never understand
Berlinetta's had the VSS wires going through the C100 like the later TBI cars. These are not used in the swap and the buffer box must be bypassed like above
Spike used almost all 90*s. Ill update the diagram
Ya, 90* works best. They are a lot more expensive then the standard straight fitting, but the fit is perfect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by screeminchicken
Also the black braided lines that Spike-Z used looks awesome. links for that Spike
I got it from Summit. Its a -6 nylon wrapped fuel hose. I loved the look and the material is soft, so when it rubs against the body, it doesnt scratch it like stainless would, plus its good up to 300psi... good enough for us.
Adding a bit more info about an 87 harness I just did. 86-88 are very similar so this should be helpful
First, the 87 C207 pinout is WRONG. Pin D is not the fan fuse, it is the fuel pump relay output to the fuel pump itself. It is a very large (10ga) tan/wht wire. I verified at the relay with my multimeter before disassembly. Pins B and G are supposed to control the fuel injector fuses. They do not, Im not sure where they go but the INJ 1/2 fuses go to the separate connector near the C207
Im not sure of the connectors name, but it is a gray 6 pin rectangular connector near the C207 with only 3 wires going to it
A PNK/BLK INJ 1
B
C TAN/WHT Fan fuse
D PNK/BLK INJ 2
E
F
Adding a bit more info about an 87 harness I just did. 86-88 are very similar so this should be helpful
First, the 87 C207 pinout is WRONG. Pin D is not the fan fuse, it is the fuel pump relay output to the fuel pump itself. It is a very large (10ga) tan/wht wire. I verified at the relay with my multimeter before disassembly. Pins B and G are supposed to control the fuel injector fuses. They do not, Im not sure where they go but the INJ 1/2 fuses go to the separate connector near the C207
Im not sure of the connectors name, but it is a gray 6 pin rectangular connector near the C207 with only 3 wires going to it
A PNK/BLK INJ 1
B
C TAN/WHT Fan fuse
D PNK/BLK INJ 2
E
F
That's the 87 C221... Some may have a couple more wires in there (I'm pretty sure I have a blue one in there).
For the 87 C207, keep in mind these are for the base V6:
A: Brown, ALDL Pin C for the AIR system test
B: Red, ALDL Pin G for the fuel pump test connector
C: SES Brown/White controller wire to/from ECM
D: Tan/White Fuel Pump power wire that runs to C208 by the C100
E: White/Black wire for ALDL Data (ALDL Pin B)
F: Pink/Black, ECM/IGN Fuse power In
G: Black/Pink, GAGES Fuse power
H: Tan/Black TCC solenoid control
J: ALDL M Orange for Data link (scanner)
K: Brown, VSS Buffer Input to ECM
L: V6 harness doesn't use this pin
M: Black/White ground wire
N: Orange/Black, Neutral Safety Switch Input to ECM
P: Purple wire, unused in V6 app.
R: Purple/White, Crank fuse out to cold start injection.
I hope this helps a little, even though it's not for V8 engines.
Tried to update my post before (blasted internet card!), should look like this:
For the 87 C207:
A: Brown, ALDL Pin C for the AIR system test
B: Red, ALDL Pin G for the fuel pump test connector
C: SES Brown/White controller wire to/from ECM. May be White/Dark Green (VIN H), and goes to something called a "light driver module".
D: Tan/White Fuel Pump power wire that runs to C208 by the C100 (TPI). FP/INJ 2 Black/Orange wire to auxillary fan relay, VIN H.
E: White/Black wire for ALDL Data (ALDL Pin B)
F: Pink/Black, ECM/IGN Fuse power In
G: Black/Pink, GAGES Fuse power
H: Tan/Black TCC solenoid control, Shift Light control for M/T cars.
J: ALDL M Orange for Data link (scanner) (Fuel pump relay control for VIN H)
K: Brown, VSS Buffer Input to ECM
L: V6 harness doesn't use this pin (Fuel pump relay to choke heater relay control for VIN H)
M: Black/White ground wire
N: Orange/Black, Neutral Safety Switch Input to ECM
P: Purple wire, unused in V6 app, Brake switch Purple wire to TCC, VIN 8, F, H.
R: Purple/White, Crank fuse out to cold start injection (V6). C/H FAN fuse out to auxillary fan, Brown, VIN H.
:edit: BTW,
Last edited by Maverick H1L; 01-06-2010 at 08:18 PM.
for any wanting to run 6AN lines straight off of the LS1 plastic fuel tank, Summit part 15117 is a quick connect to female fitting that costs 35 dollars. it should allow you to connect directly to the plastic off of the sender, then use a male to male fitting then a straight through fitting to your braided line.
i made a drawing of my fuel lines for a plastic tank to an LT1 rail (kindof a mix up, i know), and my total cost in fittings came out to 166.44 dollars, which ranges from 240-270 dollars for the entire system when you add 20 ft. of braided line, depending on wrapped coated or bare.
for any wanting to run 6AN lines straight off of the LS1 plastic fuel tank, Summit part 15117 is a quick connect to female fitting that costs 35 dollars. it should allow you to connect directly to the plastic off of the sender, then use a male to male fitting then a straight through fitting to your braided line.
okay, i see where on the ls1 pcm red pin 44 will operate the reverse lockout. is there such a pin on an 03 truck pcm with the green and blue connectors though?
Pocket I wanted to say thanks for putting together all this info. I think there is one error on the 4L60e connector. The earlier pcm’s may be different, but for the 99-02 LS1 pcm, the 3-2 shift sol should be B79 not B78.
I have a question regarding the large pink ignition wire coming from the C100. What are you guys using this for?
I have the injectors and coils hooked up to the two IGN fuses coming from the C207. I have the O2’s coming from the emissions common on the C100. I have the PCM and MAF hooked to the PCM fuse at the C207.
I am debating what to do with it, I am running all of my wires for power circuits and DLC through the speedo cable hole with a grommet off of the LT1 harness and not using C207 at all. It will make things much cleaner on the passenger side of the motor.
I have a question regarding the large pink ignition wire coming from the C100. What are you guys using this for?
I have the injectors and coils hooked up to the two IGN fuses coming from the C207. I have the O2’s coming from the emissions common on the C100. I have the PCM and MAF hooked to the PCM fuse at the C207.
I have the IGN common powering my HO2's. (ask me how I know)
so to bring this back from the dead is there a breakdown of the 89's c207 wires and the c100 the way the first diagram was done? i did the 92 by hand myself before coming across this using a FSM but i dont have one for the 89 i tried using ATGO's diagrams with little luck
any info would be greatly appreciated!
__________________
HONDA: Hold On Not Done Accelerating For the win
"If you expect a kick to the balls and get a slap to the face its still a victory"
Identical except the fan fuse was moved from the C100 to the C207 pin D and all engines used C207 pin K for the speedo via buffer box. C100 F8 is not used because airbags were not introduced until 90
Identical except the fan fuse was moved from the C100 to the C207 pin D and all engines used C207 pin K for the speedo via buffer box. C100 F8 is not used because airbags were not introduced until 90
Pocket you are ever the life saver around here! ill have to do some homework and post up in a new thread with any questions i have from there i really appreciate your help