So, is there any other swap options out theree yet? Anything that can be modded. I have thought about modding a set of big block chevy headers, but after measuring them, it seems possible but a bit of work, i akso found some Ebay headers i might use for temporary: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2000-...Q5fAccessories http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/XTUNE...Q5fAccessories Then basically but the flange off and make my own with a 3 inch collector.

Well I HEAR hawks don't fit 4L60E cars without work or using a special crossmember. So I went with a cheap used set of edelbrock shorty headers for a Ls1. They are 1 5/8th" stainless steel, coated in ceramic.They seem to work well so far, but are probably choking the cammed 6.0I have them on.

I believe I also saw some one use a pair of Heddman 68460 longtubes that were made for our 350 TPI cars, then they cut the flange off and welded them up to LS1 flanges.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Hedman/500/684...oductId=744779

Doesn't look too hard to do and would cost about 200-250 for a finished set of longtubes if you know a welder. Good luck though, I've beenlooking for solid answers on a reasonably priced set of headers - seems it doesn't exist yet though.

So a set of shortys worked off a 4th gen then right? I dont see why not. I will just find the cheap *** shortys for temporary if i can get a set of 1 3/4 primarys, just to get it going with the 6.0.

What does your shift at?

I can weld the tubes myself, but it is hard to justify spending any money on something that might not work, i have seen a setup that is a weld it yourself kind of thing, about 180$, so that might be the initial route i go.

I have a T56 so i am not worried about the automatic.

I have probably $380-400 into my headers that I handmade and that doesn't count the 25-30 hours I spent making them. Probably going to sell them shortly to buy bigger tubes and swap them in instead.

Yea, lemme know what you do if it is soon.

I am seriously wanting t get the cheap shortys for temp, but i dont wanna spend extra when i can build my own the first time when it is optimal for mock up.

The first set is ceramic coated. The second set is chrome plated.

I considered both of them and decided against them. For one thing, I couldn't get an answer about the primary tube size (the response when I asked was, "We do not have that information available at this time.Thank you for your interest in our products." My response was, without that information, I am not interested - if you get the information for me, I might again be interested). Also wasn't convinced of their quality.

What I'm planning for my LS1/4L60E: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BBK-40030/ . Ceramic coated, 1-3/4" primaries, 3" collector. No modification needed. I'll have a custom y-pipe made, probably go up to 3-1/2" single back.

So how do you think those BBk flow?? Heck there 1 3/4... Should handle some power right? Doin a 6.0l l92 headed swap I dont think my manifolds will work (they will but to choked). So thanks for the heads up

LOL, that is the same responses i got!! Bastards, i am sure the crap is so cheap i would be pissing money away when i tried to cut and weld them.

those BBKs might work out actually, lemme see if i can find the ones a friend was using on his 408 stroker, he used some shortys and his IROC ran its *** off.

mine would only work with a tubular kmember since i moved all the tubes far away from the block and starter so there is no oil filter or starter removal issues. In fact they tuck up rather nicely underneath and also can be installed and removed without issues from underneath.

I thought the oil filter was out of the way pretty good compared to the older SBC. But, i have no idea what the starter location will look like.

well when i build a set i continuously install and remove them to make sure that they are super easy to install instead of most bigger tube headers that involve lifting the motor, etc. If i'm going motor plate and mid plate this winter I'll need a different set anyways and I want 1 7/8" or do stepped to 2" as well. We'll see how the money situation works out for that stuff. Regardless without a tube kmember it would never fit a stock chassis.

those BBK look promising, they look very similar to the edelbrock LS1 shorties I bought used. They are direct replacements for stock manifolds, my only gripe is the non-standard LS1 flange, gaskets are hard to come by for them.

most stock manifolds outflow shorties so I don't see the point for little to no gains

So, i could cut up the stock K member to clear the headers then if i wanted...hmmm....


That wouldnt be a big deal to cut out the area needed and plate it in.

Going from log type LS1 manifolds to shorty headers certainly helped considering the cammed LQ9 in that thing. I also went true duals at the same time though.

There's no way you could remove enough material out of the kmember to be the shape of a single tube running across it.


As for your cam'd 6.0L think how much more power it would make with long tubes, the majority of the buildups on ls1tech we're talking a 10hp difference from shorties on a built motor over stock manifolds, whereas you get 35 or more out of long tubes. I don't see the effort wasted to build a new exhaust, etc when you're still choking these motors with shorties.

Well, i was not sure how much room your headers need as i was assuming i could notch the K member a bit, but it sounds like yours are pretty far forward.

I dont want to do shorties but if funds run out i might till i get more cash.

so you're going ahead with this huge cam and talk of big HP numbers but are trying to choke the motor with poorly designed shorty headers?

Here you go:

I can't imagine 1-3/4" shorties not making more power than stock manifolds, even the best the factory made.

But, I've been accused of being short on imagination before.

i was saying for the price they're not worth it compared to other mods.

Personally, I'm in the situation where I don't have stock exhaust manifolds, so going with the shorties, even at $400, makes sense. If someone made 1-3/4" long tubes that would get past a 4L60E, it may be a different story.

I also wonder about the point at which other mods stop working with manifolds, but keep producing dividends with shorties. I would guess that point comes fairly early in the process.

I've heard of people swapping to shorties on LSX motors and losing some power, but I have yet to see a dyno test to prove it.

The butt dyno can be very deceiving.

Yea, i just refuse to use manifolds, that is just me i guess. Those 1 3/4 headers do not look bad and for the 4L60 guys it is a great answer.

I wonder how far off are the full length 4th gen headers, i bet allot.

im with you on that.
you have any pics handy of your custom headers?
im trying to get ideas of what i want to do.
building headers on my car is going to be a PROJECT!
changing up torque arms and also a new y pipe when i do the headers.
tired of a hard to work on car. torque arm change will be weight removal as well, so its not a bad thing, except on the wallet.

What angles do you want pics from and I can take them. I have to pull out my th400 since the pump took a dump on me to have it rebuilt this weekend so I can shoot some before yanking it out. I plan on selling off these 1 3/4" and tossing in 1 7/8" which I could basically follow the exact same lines and curves of the ones I previously made, which "hopefully" will save me some effort this time around. I wasted probably 25-30 hours on the first set and that was doing them on a lift, now doing them on my back could take longer. Found a few pics that I had saved on here so I'll post them at least.

this is as I was first making them....

just toss me a pic of the passgender side header if its comming out, if not, dont worry.
where does your collector end up in relation to the shift arm on the transmission so i can put a visual together.
where did you buy your header kit from, or did you by indvidual U or J bends?
ive been looking here and there trying to get stuff lined up and havent found much what i like.
thanks!

Headers don't need to be removed to pull the trans, that was one of my first goals. The collector was cut much shorter than that first pic as that was just a hooker collector welded onto the tubes. I bought 12 j-bends and had a few leftover when I was done, along with the 1 3/4" to 3" collector end. I then ran headmann s-bend pipes off the collectors that I cut and reshaped to get the curve and length I was looking for. Both headers have the collector tucked up nicely on the floorpan and the bottom tube on either header was shaped so that in case I come down hard on them "hopefully" only that tube would be dented in and easily cut out and a new tube rewelded in. I'll grab some pics monday will I pull out the trans and put the car in the air.

My point exactly, short of custom made headers there is NO ONE that currently makes long tubes that will work with a 4L60E. And I'm an automatic man myself lol, that's the only reason we are stuck with shorties, so it definitely makes sense to go with them if we want anything other than stock...

LOL, that is exactly what i was going to make my 6.0 look like with the black block and valve covers. Even have the samen damn carb! Thanks for a glimpse into the future!

seasrch my name. i just made a thread about slp ls1 headers.
ive never seen one before till this pic.
its completely different than any 98-02 f body header ive seen.
it may be an option. visually, the passenger side kinda looks like my hawks.

What about a Ford header? I've read about it being done on LS1tech, the flange needs to be removed and an LSX flange adapted to fit.

Are there any Ford headers that anyone has tried that fit up or are at least close, requiring minor modification? They're relatively cheap used, and it could be a cost effective choice if it were possible!

interesting idea, FWIW, my ford buddy says that apparently LS1 heads will bolt up to a SBF, so that would mean the bore centers would have to be the same, and that the valves would have to be close to the same place.

cool idea.

Well, i have thought about ford headers too, but not sure which ones would even be close as i know jack about a mod motor.

Modding them to just a flange would be pretty cool, but do they make a 1 3/4 mod motor header?

Not mod motor, 302/351 Windsor.

done a set on a buddys fox.
basically cut the flange off. tack them up and you can use a piece of pipe or a ball peen to round out the fords ports to fit the ls1 flange.
ive never tried to sit on in my car, but the collector area is going to be an issue, if the tubes even clear the firewall.
its insane how much room a mustang actually has over our cars.
firewall, trans area, rearend.
i hate gm.

very true, my buddies 89 gt has space all over, but it doesn't handle as good, look as good, and isn't nearly as comfortable as my Camaro

agreed, but stangs can get light quick.
camaros not so much.
id like to have a camaro body dropped over a stang subframe.
best of both worlds.

Just make your floorpans yourself if it is that big of a deal...which it is with these damn things, lol. But at least a aftermarket K member helps allot.

i am going to use these headers for now until someone makes a decent long tube. they might bolt up to 3rd gen y-pipe or at least very little mod.
http://www.ajusa.com/details/index/204/0/0/EDE%2065172

no reason to spend 400 bucks on 2hp.
i say keep the stock manifolds and hold onto your cash.

If you did spend that much for shorties, get the bigger primaries like listed earlier, i would anyway:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BBK-40030/

That raises the question: Were those 1-5/8" primary shorties, or 1-3/4" primary shorties?

Damn good question, a 1 5/8 is about the best thing for a 305, but a LS that screams to 6000+ RPM screams "I need to ditch this exhaust".

ALRIGHT, cam up with something, i know shortys dont flow super bad *** but i am wanting to get opintions on my idea...:

Patriot 8013s, mid length/shortys, the 1 7/8 primarys, chop the flange and make a set of custom LS1 flange with 1 3/4 run into the 1 7/8 primaries, basically a stepped mid length, i think it will work bad *** and am kind of leaning towards that route...

Input/thoughts?


http://www.jegs.com/i/Patriot+Exhaus...013-1/10002/-1

why not use hedman longtubes for the TPI, chop the flange and weld them up to a LS1 flange?

http://www.jegs.com/i/Hedman/500/684...oductId=744779

so because you can't spend whatever the long tubes are you'd rather waste $350 for those headers along with buying other flanges, etc. The only people who can afford to do things twice are the people who half-*** it the first time around.

edit: don't forget the money wasted on building two different exhaust systems as well, one for the shorties which probably won't make any power over the stock manifolds and then doing it again for the long tubes.

Not sure, but if you look at the stock manifolds on the LTX and LSX motors, you can see that the manifolds are from a new generation of minds, they are defiantly more performance oriented. better than a good set of shorties, IDK, but better than anything designed for a GEN 1 motor, definitely.

You guys are breaking my heart. When I was reading up and trying to decide on headers. i was under the impression that they have clearence issues with using stock k-memeber.

changing to a tubular one fixes that = $$$
+ I didnt have a welder to connect the dot from the header flange to the y or X pipe.

A local shop wanted $400-$500 to weld and make just those extensions. I had to supply the flanges for both ends. Plus i didnt like how all or most of them had egr ports.

adding that to the cost of the shorties , they were verging close to the SSW headers.

You guys with welding skills can save a lot of money