Any interest in ported LS1 or LM7 heads? - Page 3 - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

Atilla the Fun · 08-13-2010, 02:32 PM

I will never understand the appeal of the LS3 heads. The big bore block makes a lot of sense, however. But this thread is about what to do to cathedral-port heads.
I'm working on another 5.3 head, trying ideas for a stage 2 exhaust port that should be on par with the TEA stage 1.5, but at far less cost.
Pics should be up within a week or two.
I wish I could say the same for the flow bench results. Heck, I may just ship these heads to Couch if he can get us some numbers.

ZONES89RS · 08-13-2010, 02:51 PM

Well, your work looks superb, i am just dying to see what they do, i like the LS3 heads since you dont have to do anything with them, but i woulds till have to buy another intake if i got a set, i wish i had a set of 243s that flow over 300 because my 6.0 will gain allot compared to my 317s.

Atilla the Fun · 08-13-2010, 03:21 PM

I sent a PM to Couch.
Maybe you aren't aware, but for $995, TEA can get your 241s over 300 cfm. I think that price includes milling and return shipping, as well as new 2.02/1.57 valves and good springs.
If you go that route, I'd be interested in buying your 2.00" valves and stock springs.

ZONES89RS · 08-13-2010, 03:25 PM

Yea, i was going to try and see what numbers yours produce or a deal on a set of used heads first, i am on a budget so i try not to spend cash that i do not have, LOL.

Atilla the Fun · 08-13-2010, 06:01 PM

If you're not too impatient, I may have numbers up. Couch has responded that he could do the bench work, so now we just need to hammer out the details. Let's give him until Monday to decide if he's game, I'll report in Monday evening.

ZONES89RS · 08-13-2010, 07:18 PM

I am in no hurry man, i have a separate project that has the 89 on hold except for the trans being fixed as soon as i get off my **** and pull it to get the work done.

modified_wayz · 08-14-2010, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atilla the Fun

"You can hurt a heads flow more than help it if you are not flowing between doing one thing and another." "would have done better if i could have measured every change."
Nope. Close, but erroneous. Going to the bench only tells you that what you did helped or hurt, but if it hurt, then the damage is already done before you even put the head on the bench and find that out.
Also, a thing that hurts a head if done by itself sometimes gives even better results when combined with something else. So the end result's wet flow and swirl are the only 2 things that really matter. Not the mid-process dry flow numbers.
The rest of what you typed is old news to everyone, and has nothing to do with what I WAS offering: exhaust only, for nitrous or blower combos.
The only 4 facts that mattered were these: (1) Do ANY of you guys really appreciate all the knowledge I've given on TGO. Apparently not. (2) do you honestly believe you, (whoever you are, not any particular individual, but anyone reading this) can do as well as what I just showed? For 99% of you, the fact is: NO. (3) If you can, can you do so for that price? Unless you already own all the parts and equipment. no. (4) Can there be any doubt that my improvement is worth it? Well, people are capable of the wildest thinking, but MY results ARE worth FAR more than what I ask.
If you disagree, please be adult enough to respect my wishes and post it somewhere else. I've done you no wrong, so don't badmouth anything I type. I'd hate to have to ask five7kid to delete your post, but I can, and he often will. I'm dying of cancer, I don't need the stress of you mean people hurting my feelings by hurling bad opinion at my facts. Facts, by the way, can be independently verified. I'm giving you info that you'd otherwise have to pay hundreds of dollars for, so show a little appreciation. If you can't type something kind, don't type anything. Your role here is student, mine is teacher. If you think something I typed was unkind, then either you attacked me first, or you typed something erroneous.

I agree with you and am very very thankful for you taking the time and patients to share your knowledge.

I am so caught up in reading your posts that I've been fighting going to bed. Its now 2:02am on a Friday night and i must give in and head to bed. I've stopped at this comment and am looking forward to reading the rest.

Thank you again

Atilla the Fun · 08-14-2010, 06:40 AM

folks, this is a guy with a healthy obsession. I really pity anyone who never once in their life gets that captivated by anyTHING. People don't count. People aren't THINGs. Heads are. Cams are. Tires are.

Kory-88Iroc 350 tpi · 12-19-2011, 10:40 PM

Is ther any way I can get the pics that were in this thread? I have a set of 5.3 heads I'd like to do some port work on.
Thanks for any help.
Kory

xpndbl3 · 12-19-2011, 11:09 PM

most people that home port these heads end up with higher flow numbers on a bench but kill port velocity and run slower at the track and end up making less power. Really something to have a CNC program with proven results do. Of course if you're just cleaning up casting flash, then you're not really porting anyways. I never saw the appeal of this guy and some of what he posted I disagreed with.

modified_wayz · 12-19-2011, 11:22 PM

I'll have to disagree with you a little. I believe The program in that CNC machine is modeled after a hand ported job in the first place. Yes a proven ported job and then copied by CNC.

I have seen huge flow improvements from simply blending the port and removing the rocker stud lump. I did no port reshaping or enlarging and have great flow improvements. I will admit that I have no track time to compare them to yet though.

But I feel it was well worth my time. I can not afford to drop the money on CNC'd heads. If you have the money to throw around like that then Yes you'd get better results from a proven head. But for a budget build you get good improvements worth while on a home port job.

modified_wayz · 12-19-2011, 11:25 PM

PS: there is lots of good information on the net, for people looking to learn, of home porting these LS heads from reputable people .

xpndbl3 · 12-19-2011, 11:43 PM

got any before/after dyno sheets of your improvements, I've never gotten my butt dyno calibrated lol And yes CNC ports are after testing several different designs then going with the one that makes the best power over the rpm range.

modified_wayz · 12-19-2011, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xpndbl3

got any before/after dyno sheets of your improvements? And yes CNC ports are after testing several different designs then going with the one that makes the best power over the rpm range.

No Sir! No Dyno numbers yet. Just flow numbers. The build is getting close but wont be done until probably next summer. Just using my judgement, I feel confident in my results. I've seen many others do the same with great results.

My point was that there can be good benefit from cleaning up your heads yourself. More than Likely wont equal to the pros, but you get what you pay for. If I can squeeze out some power on my own, thats awesome.

xpndbl3 · 12-20-2011, 12:03 AM

Definitely, but I've seen more "good" looking home port jobs actually slow down at the track on a modern gen 3 head then actually pick up ET or mph. Ls1tech is filled with threads of guys who killed port velocity and then ran slower. For the cost of head gaskets and how long it takes to tear down a motor compared to what you can get a professional port job for, I'll have it done once right. Now on old heads with tons of issues due to their crappy castings, they can be cleaned up easily enough. It's more voodoo magic on these new ones to get a big gain

Hope you like your swap....these motors are incredible

modified_wayz · 12-20-2011, 12:13 AM

Interesting. I'll have to look up those threads. I would expect that they must have opened up the ports or something. That will be interesting to read.

Thats a good point about doing it right the first time. It could get expensive if you dont have the touch. I guess it depends on the person doing this. Myself, this is what I do and love. I wouldnt mind learning from my mistakes and trying again. It also is the perfect time for me since I'm just assembling my motor.

I have just recently swap'd a Z06 Cam'd 5.3 into my C10 as well. I'm currently porting a set of heads for it also. I'll be driving it for the first time tomorrow to get the exhaust patched up. I'm excited to experience these new motors. Their potential is unbelievable.

modified_wayz · 12-20-2011, 12:41 AM

@xpndb13 Judging from your awards there in your sig, you obviously have the money to purchase proven heads.

My projects are very restricted budget. My C10, including the purchase of the truck, engine, trans, drop kit and needed parts for the swap, I have under $2,000 invested. I've gotten good at stretching a dollar bill out.

xpndbl3 · 12-20-2011, 01:29 AM

No I don't have a huge budget, just $2-5k a year for over 10 years certainly adds up. Feel free to work 70 hours a week during summers off from college and have a part time job throughout college, skip some parties, study hard, work hard, get promoted and then have 2-3 jobs in the summers and you can open up your budget by quite a bit. Nothing was handed to me easily, I learned on this car and did everything 100% to it besides building the trans and having a great friend trade me paint and body work for 2 motor swaps in his cars. I've just learned over the years you can do it right once and make it look 100% or spend 3 times the amount of effort and at least double the money in the long run to try out less then optimized ideas.

modified_wayz · 12-20-2011, 01:42 AM

I understand that method well. Maybe I should have looked for your age first. With time one can attain much. I'm sorry for misjudging you. I give much respect to those who learn and build there own rides.

Congrats on your builds and your accomplishments! I'd enjoy seeing your ride. Maybe I'll run into you at one of these Third gen fests.

1bad91Z · 12-20-2011, 08:31 AM

modified_wayz - sorry for getting off topic, but this coming spring we're going to have a Texas thirdgen roundup most likely held in Katy, TX. After the first of the year, there will be a post in South Central board.

Pocket · 12-20-2011, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by modified_wayz

I'll have to disagree with you a little. I believe The program in that CNC machine is modeled after a hand ported job in the first place. Yes a proven ported job and then copied by CNC.

I have seen huge flow improvements from simply blending the port and removing the rocker stud lump. I did no port reshaping or enlarging and have great flow improvements. I will admit that I have no track time to compare them to yet though.

But I feel it was well worth my time. I can not afford to drop the money on CNC'd heads. If you have the money to throw around like that then Yes you'd get better results from a proven head. But for a budget build you get good improvements worth while on a home port job.

CNC head port shapes are not mirror images of hand ported job by past pros. They're the result of extensive computer simulations

Id take anything the OP posted with a grain of salt. This is the same guy who decided to "port" his block for a little weight reduction, ground away at a few oil passages for "more flow", and clearanced his oil pan with a hammer

cuisinartvette · 12-20-2011, 05:33 PM

Tossing it out fwiw

removing casting flash isnt going to do jack.

Paying a big name pro..hell yes its worth it

You cannot learn from a vid whats taken someone decades to refine.

Like a dentist telling you how to clean teeth then handing you the tools and say Ok, do it. lol.

if the guy wants to do a cleanup for 120 not to bad..I do not comprehend not posting # from your improvements, that only validates your work. I will not send a set out without a sheet thats only fair so one knows what they are getting. Perhaps at this stage Atilla is kind of giving it away in case he cant beat what hes fighting to an extent. I get it.

Ive gotten a # of heads here this last yr that were done by XYZ that never came with a sheet...but were told "they go about this" stage 1, 2 3 whatever. LOL!!! No they didnt . Too late they drank the Koolaid

Anyway best wishes on beating the big C there Atilla fighting a losing battle on someting similar myself. It is NO fun.

Sorry but I lol'd on the cancel due to $21..you dont he didnt have the money to start with.

Best wishes