Blinn79

First, let me say hello to all of you, as this is my first post. I found the website while doing research for a new project I am starting. A good friend of mine informed me he wants to sell his 89 RS and he is the original owner and has been garaged kept since day 1. It has right at 89k miles. Everything is original and everything works. He bought a new mustang, and needs the room in the garage to park the mustang. He offered me far too good of a deal to pass up (under 1k).

So now that I have the car, I am intrested in swaping out this pathetic TBI 305 with something a little more performance oriented. This will NOT be my daily driver, but will be street legal and I will put about 6k a year on it. I have looked at many different options for a engine replacement, and recently stumbled across some intresting articles about crate engines. I found a HOTROD article from 2008 where they tested a 3400lb chevelle with different crate engines and the LS327/327 was one of them. It ran a best time of 12.3? (with 10.50 slicks and 4 link adjustable rear susp). What was impressive though, is it performed better than the ZZ4 crate engine which was rated at higher HP, and much higher TQ. Also, the engine costs less than the ZZ4.

So that being said, I started researching the LS327/327 to see what was so special about it. According to GM's website, it is just a 5.3 with a hot cam and the pistons are coated with a low friction coating. So again, I started doing more research. I found an article from "sporttruck" that talked about a LS327/327 build they did. They fixed the long block crate engine with a edelbrock performer RPM intake, holly street HP 650 carb, MSD coils, wires, and ignition, a Comp Cam Thumper and Comp Cam Beehive valve springs, and dynoed the engine at 414.5 HP @ 6400 RPM and 405 TQ @ 4300 RPMs.

So this engine seems like it is very capable of producing power. Plus I have read that it is "easy" on gas compared to a lot of other crate engines, plus it is known for its reliability. Also it can run on 87 octane. So since the only difference in the normal 5.3L that comes in almost every silverado, and the LS327 crate engine is just a hot cam (which I would replace anyways with probably a Comp Thumper like they did in the article), and low friction coating on the pistons, it does not seem worth it to pay over $3k for the crate engine when I found a used, complete 5.3L at my local scrap yard for $800 (with 36,785 miles on it) out the door.

Then I can yank the intake, cam, and valve springs. Then spend another $500 on the Holley carb, $286 on the edelbrock intake, I would choose not to spend the total of $1,100 for the MSD ignition setup they used in the article, and just leave the stock wires and coils but use the MSD 6LS ($313), and the Comp Cam and Beehive valve springs. This would put my total build around $2,000 for the whole complete engine. Now I obviously won't expect to get the exact same numbers they got with out the MSD wires, and coils, but I don't think the gains they more then likely got were worth the extra $750. I would imagine worst case scenario, it should not fall from 415HP to less than 375HP. Either way, it should still be plenty of power, with a reliable engine, that is a little more economical then most carbed crate engines.

Anyways, that is my plan, and I just wanted to get some of your thoughts and if anyone has any ideas that might improve this build, I would love to hear any CONSTRUCTIVE critisicism. If I am missed anything, that might cause a problem putting this engine into the 89 RS, please let me know. This will be my first Camaro swap, and my first owned Camaro too.

Also, if anyone knows anyone that has done this swap, it would be great to hear some input from them as well. Also, will I have any problems mounting the 5.3L up to the 700R4? If I end up having to get a different trans, or this one takes a dump on me after the swap and some punishment, I was planning on looking into a 4L80 swap. Any thoughts on that?

I look forward to hearing from you all.

1ADan

iTrader: (4)

welcome aboard. you're best bet would be to check out the LSx subforum, as what you're looking to do is not all that uncommon. the 5.3l is a close sibling to the LS1/6 motors, so all the install issues would be the same. there are quite a few of us working to put this newer generation of motors into the 3rd gens, so there's a lot of info floating around to help you

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Moved this to the LTX and LSX subforum.

Although I know a lot of people do it, I just don't see the sense of downgrading a perfectly capable system to carb. Just doesn't make sense.

But, as stated, it's basically an LSx swap.

1ADan

iTrader: (4)

five7, completely agree with you - the FI on these motors is amazing, why take a step back and spend more money for old tech?

dynodanmanda79

iTrader: (1)

I did a 5.3/T-56 swap in my 89 IROC and couldn't be any happier, I'm also going to agree with everyone else and say keep the EFI. I'm not sure if anyone has put a 4L80E in a third gen ,I could be wrong, but I would definately upgrade to either that or at least a 4L60E, and maybe a stall converter. If you're intimidated by the wiring that is associated with keeping EFI, there's a member here who goes by the screen name "Pocket" and from what I hear, he does a really good job on the harnesses for these cars and I think he charges a good price as well.

Blinn79

That is exactly it. I swapped a carbed 350 into a 1982 S10 I had about 8 years ago, but I have never attempted to swap anything with a computer. Its not even that I don't think I could do it, but rather would just not hassle with it. I would love to have it fuel injected, but all the sensors, and wiring just sound like a nightmare. Plus I remember a friend that swapped EFI motors in a mustang, and ended up spending THOUSANDS trying to work the bugs out, and that even the performance shop who was tuning the engine was having hell trying to get it to run right. That is what scares me.

What all sensors, wiring, computers, etc, would I need to swap a stock 5.3L w/a aftermarket cam into the 89 RS?

Convoy25

iTrader: (3)

i could be wrong but i think you would just need the computer out of a sierra/silverado or something else with a 5.3l as well as the harness itself. there probably are aftermarket harnesses, i know summit has a few.

and as previously mentioned pocket or someone could help you there

sargenewk17

iTrader: (2)

Definitely don't let the wiring intimidate you. There are several guys on here that are pretty much experts on these swaps at this point and most everyone's willing to help out and give you pointers. I'd never swapped a motor or done engine electrical work and mine fired up on the first try. Totally worth it.

dynodanmanda79

iTrader: (1)

You would need, cam sensor, crank sensor, 2 knock sensors, and a minimum of 2 O2 sensors. As for the wiring and computer, you can get them from either a silverado or you can run a camaro wiring harness and computer but there's not much difference. You'll also have to send the computer in to be tuned, VATS removal, and have any unecessary things tuned out. I spent $500 on my wiring harness and $300 on a brand new computer with a custom tune, and there are no "bugs" of any kind in my EFI system. With that being said, you'd probably save a little money staying with EFI, and like I said Pocket makes plug n play harnesses so you won't have to deal with any of the wiring. I believe you send him the harness off the car and the one going to the new motor and he takes care of it from there, then he'll send it back and you just plug everything in and you're ready to go (I believe that's how the process works).

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Well, froma guy with a carbed 89 RS with a junk yard 6.0 that drags nearly all my local buddies, i dont know why the carb hate. If it was not something with the word budget in mind i guess fine, but for me, i dont have the time to spend on making the EFI work and i am looking for power. So, the 270$ Vic Jr works better than nearly ANY EFI intake and cost so much less it makes me laugh. Ten there is the tuning of the EFI with a cam, another expensive feat, i love plugging up my lap top and tuning my 6LS 6010 box and letting it eat, not to mention the two step rev limiter and nitrous retard built right in. You mention driving 6k a year or less? Forget EFI in my book, you are not even getting any true benefit of it if you arent going to daily drive it. I am running a 750 pro form and with 4.30 gears and a T56 6 speed i do not what so even complain about the fuel economy.


Te subject has been beaten to death, and will never dies as long as there are different applications for the use of the vehicle, for you i say go carb and save while making more power. People say it is taking a step back, but who cares when you are saving money, the guys out here int heir cammed LS cars, sprayed mustangs and all the rest are looking at my carbed LS tail lights and in the end taking a step back is keeping me ahead.

Convoy25

iTrader: (3)

LS1 intakes can be had anywhere from $50-100 bucks tops

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Yep, but no one shooting for high power numbers uses a LS1 intake. There is a reason they are cheap.

Convoy25

iTrader: (3)

you could still make decent numbers with a LS1 intake

"Then spend another $500 on the Holley carb, $286 on the edelbrock intake"

thats 786 for the setup. an LS6 intake can be bought for about 300-350 bucks and is said to give about 10-15rwhp over the LS1 intake. and if someone's spending that much on an intake setup you could just get a f.a.s.t intake, which gives a little more than the LS6 intake

dynodanmanda79

iTrader: (1)

+$300 for an ignition controller, and whatever it costs for a transmission control module if you want to run an electronic transmission.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Personally, it's not "carb hate". Give me a break, I'm a mod on that forum.

On the other hand, there seems to be a "carb fetish" among some. I can understand a "high power numbers" 10-sec drag car going with carb. If that's what you're after and you're starting with a 5.3, you're starting off on the wrong foot.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

I ge the intakes for 270$ and my carbs for about 50$, so i am not in the boat of buying a new carb when a used unit can be had for way cheaper. So i am in under 350$ usually, unless you build one like i have or just find a small carb and trade up to a larger one.

Man, something about the 5.3 that the turbo guys love, i think it is the thick cylinder walls but it is the hit ticket for allot of the budget turbo fellas.


In all honestly, can we get a straight up comparison between two built inductions? I know i can get from scratch, the ignition controller, intake, carb(used) and be together, and tuned on my own with no issues for about 650$, what does it run for a EFI setup: wiring harness, PCM, good intake, TB, Mass air, some sort of cool air induction, and to have it tuned/dyno tuned by a shop?

All my buddies are usually in at 500$ for a life time dyno tune, harness from 100$ up, PCM from 100$ up, 350$ for a LS6 intake, mass oar is about 50$ or so, induction i have no idea, a good throttle body 100$ up, let me know what you guys pay for these thigs because i am going from what i see and hear from friends, i am tallied to double what my setup runs me and a LS6 intake only wished it could flow what my Vic Jr does.

Convoy25

iTrader: (3)

that still nets about the same as getting an LS6 intake, and i've seen people include the TB as well as MAFsensor





In all honestly, can we get a straight up comparison between two built inductions? I know i can get from scratch, the ignition controller, intake, carb(used) and be together, and tuned on my own with no issues for about 650$, what does it run for a EFI setup: wiring harness, PCM, good intake, TB, Mass air, some sort of cool air induction, and to have it tuned/dyno tuned by a shop?

it really depends on how you go about it, if you buy everything separate, it will cost more (as anything does) but its fairly common for people to get LS1+trans with wiring and computer for about $2,000-3,000

and as far as tuning it will cost someone as much as it costs you to do it yourself. for a shop/friend to do it it could cost anywhere from 0-what you said $500 bucks

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

It's really hard to get objective comparisons, because of biases, budget constraints, subjective factors (driveability, for instance), slight changes from the magazine configuration to real life, average vs. peak torque/HP (what RPM range you average it over will affect the outcome), $'s/HP when used vs. unnecessarily expensive new parts are used, etc.

I bought a repaired LS6 intake on eBay. More than an LS1 will cost you, but about half of what most LS6 intakes go. No retuning required. The 2nd LS6 intake I got was a new take-off, included injectors, fuel rail, TB, for only a little more than most LS6 intakes go for (and a lot less than the carb conversion parts will run you).

I've been seeing that the power adder types like the 5.3's. But, the OP didn't mention PA.

cam-

Welcome Blinn79

If you do the build Im sure you'll LOVE it. If i were starting fresh on a budget right now Id buy an LY6 6.0L from a newer Sierra/Silverado. Cheap, POWERFUL and better fuel mileage than older static cam 5.3's. Ly6's are easilly found for $1500.00 or so complete.

Heres a build thread that might get you thinking about it

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conver...d-formula.html



For street driving and efficiency concerns in general you really cant put up much argument that carb is better than EFI its simply not. Even for racing fuel injection has advantages IMO but dont think Im saying carbs wont get you down the track fast because they sure will. However there are drawbacks. Check this out

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/genera...llustrate.html

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

From my tuning compared to EFI, an idiot can make a half assed timing curve with the MSD, a PCM has to be opened and you have to know what you are doing.

Yea, i was wondering what others here paid for all the parts, as for the intake you got i just scored a brand new never used Victor Jr for 200$, so the carbed parts are even cheaper when used as well and they are out there as the people are going carbed on these engines all the time in mass amounts, i got lucky scoring my Vic for 200$ just as anyone can looking for EFI parts, but a used LS6 intake still cost more than a Victor. I just have not seen anyone get it done like i have for the price i have.