TurtleTamer

iTrader: (1)

Well, that's jumping the gun. I pulled one at the junk yard today from a '95 caprice cop car and set it on the ground next to it in anticipation of a 1/2 off sale this weekend. I'll be going tomorrow and the next day to pull some other stuff (fuel pump etc).

This'll be going in my '91 but no time soon. It's a long story as to why I'm getting this engine now, but soon it'll be on an engine stand on my porch where, eventually, it'll get a bottom end refresh or build along with aluminum heads and some sort of cam kit.

I kept the wiring harness nearly 100% intact with the PCM still plugged in. It's missing the MAF and the alternator, along with throttle cable brackets and a couple other things but mainly it's complete. Even still has the o2 sensors.

My question is, what else should I grab off this thing, other than the fuel pump? Is there anything in the rear end I can use? It's got rear discs so I'll probably grab those. I'd grab the throttle cable but it appears to be gone. Should I grab the power steering lines? I didn't cut them and they look like they might fit the Camaro, but I'm not sure. I know I read somewhere someone had success with this.

Thanks guys!

TurtleTamer

iTrader: (1)

Alright, went back today and pulled the power steering hoses (answered my own question with the stickies at the top of the page, which is where I read it previously haha) but the car was propped up on its gas tank, so I pulled the fuel pump off a '98 (I believe) suburban with some sort of vortec in it. Hopefully that'll work. I'm debating on grabbing the radiator but probably won't since the coolant in the engine is rust-colored. I also decided to grab the oil cooler should I decide to install it since it'll be $8 this weekend.

fullsize fun

Don't worry about aluminum F body heads, the iron heads flow 20% more , they are what th e truck vortec heads where based off of, the aluminum heads don't do nearly as good.

TurtleTamer

iTrader: (1)

20%? I'd heard they flow better but not by that much. I'm going with aluminum so I can port them and it's a much easier metal to work with in my experience. Much lighter and more pretty too haha.

89rs454

20%? show some facts to that bs, why would gm downgrade there corvette aluminum heads and put shitty cast irons that flow more on a caprice...myth busted. They have the same size ports one is heavy as **** and hard to port and the other one is light and easy to cut and dissipates heat faster.

89rs454

Your going to love it really a huge step up from the l98 right out of the box. The best Sbc gm gave us imo. And if anyone brings up the optispark it can be replaced with coil packs. This thing will hang with an ls1 all day NA.

TurtleTamer

iTrader: (1)

Currently running an LO3. Yeah it'll be a big step up! I'm researching now how to cheaply (relatively anyway) do away with the optispark, searching forums and such for second-hand goodies. The local yard sometimes brings some treasures in that department as well.

Financially I'm ok but I don't really have a lot of cash to drop on this, so it'll be a slow build for sure. In the meantime, I just ordered a couple of LT1 books to read up on. This'll be my second engine build and first Chevy 5.7 of any kind. Luckily my first motor swap left me with the essentials: engine stand, hoist, specialty tools, and some experience.

89rs454

Don't do away with the optispark give it a chance see how it last the stock gm units are stout my lt1 has 130k on the clock and it's still going strong. I only drive my car on the weekends but pretty hard it makes up for it. I keep mine shop kept, i'm getting my moneys worth out of it considering i can get a LT1 block for dirt cheap.

TurtleTamer

iTrader: (1)

I dunno. This engine has around 160,000 miles, and I have no idea is the Opti has been replaced or not. It's the vented kind, so who knows? I was thinking I'd run it at least for a while, and in the meantime look into swapping. That's a long way off though. I'm guesstimating it may be 6 months or a year before startup.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

some of them cop cars had the baby LT1

TurtleTamer

iTrader: (1)

Haha I may have been born under a rock but I've emerged a little. It's a true LT1 all the way. Correct VIN, emissions sticker, and "5.7" on the block. Yard had that one and a Roadmaster. Both had LT1s but someone gutted the Roadmaster of everything. Left the tranny sitting next to the car. I didn't expect to get this one pulled so quick, honestly. I went up there and stood guard today, and will have to stop by tomorrow to make sure it's unmolested. Started quite the little parts pile between the engine (with accessories), power steering lines, oil cooler, etc. Got it all covered with trunk matting and such to keep the rain off the top. Going bright and early Friday morning, meeting a buddy up there who has a truck. I can't wait till this thing is on my stand. I've had this hole in my heart since my last engine left the porch

89rs454

4.3L lt1 motor? I would kill myself i i had that. make sure you don't have that first.

89rs454

I call autozone i want a baby opispark? Person on the other line huh? What do i type in?

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

was just making sure, I bought this 97 z28 donor for 1,000 and when I started tearing it apart found it had iron heads. So feared the worse! It turned out to be a "327" coded block and had 5.7 marking. You will love the power of it.

I bought this one to do a swap on my 97 camaro which had the 3.8 and I tell you that 75 extra horsepower difference for a grand was well worth it. I was going to scrap the z28 after all it's parts were taken but my girlfriend loved the car so together we took all my 3.8 stuff and put it back into the z28 and she uses it every day.

how I bought the z28





it's motor



after all 3.8 stuff back in the z28 and fixing up



All the z28 stuff went into this camaro which I have had since new, just wanted more power out of it but live in california. Couldn't justify trying to get more power out of the 3.8 and still staying smog legal.



Best of luck on your project, be careful with the front of the oil pan small dent can make crank hit (don't ask me how I know) Also don't trust the plastic fuel lines found on a donor car!

I see you say you currently have a LO-3 TBI motor, those if memory serves me right had even less power then my 200hp 3.8. So yeah your going to feel a massive difference simple as that.

TurtleTamer

iTrader: (1)

Wow nice 4th Gen! Gotta say I like the 3rd Gen more though haha.

What's this "327 coded block" you speak of, because this one has "327" all over the side of it. Kind of makes me wonder.

And you are right about the LO3's power. 170 I believe, but with 230ish torque. I kind of drive it like a diesel truck, between 1200 and 3000 rpms.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I like the styling of the 3rds more but like everything else better on the 4ths. Miss my black and gold 82 trans am that I sold to a guy in the netherlands, but the 4th gen is better suited to my needs these days.

That "327" is last digits of the GM block number is a lt1 if it has that. Can't remember what the 4.3 L-99 had but it looks identical too a LT1.

But that "327" is what you look for if this isn't visible

TurtleTamer

iTrader: (1)

Yup, learned my lesson on that years ago when I bought a 305 TPI that I thought was a 5.7. It wasn't until later that I saw the "5.0LG" on the back of the block. Was a little peeved about that but in the end I couldn't do anything with the motor anyway.

In the meantime this thing has taken over my life! I'm on leave until the 2nd, so I have nothing better to do than go to the junkyard and make sure it's still there and when I get home, I spend all day on the internet looking for parts for it. Friday cannot come soon enough so I can start tearing this sucker down.

On a positive note, the gutted Roadmaster still had the throttle cable in it, so I snagged that.

I think I'm going to grab this radiator as well. Does anyone know if the B-body rad will fit in a third gen?

89rs454

Pretty sure that rad is to tall for our cars.

TurtleTamer

iTrader: (1)

I thought it might be too big. Good news is I found a nice 4th gen V6 that had the VSS and such, and it has some nice seats too. Long story on the seats currently in the RS, but these are pretty nice and they'll be $20 a piece tomorrow.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

Don't most guys just use a 4th gen radiator when doing lt1 swaps?

Isn't the B body water pump different then the f-body? I thought there was a radiator hose on a f-body pump that the b body doesn't have.

on my 97 lt1 has about a 3/4 inch hose that goes to the bottom of the drivers side radiator tank.

Don't use a 4th gen V6 radiator though, it wont work for one, and while it's dimensionally the same the V8 has 2 cores, the v6 has 1 core.

TurtleTamer

iTrader: (1)

Right, I just got the VSS (which I heard I'll need for a T56 swap) and the reverse switch just in case, as well as the harness for them since the one on the caprice was inaccessible with the tranny and crossmember still in there so I cut it, and am seriously considering getting the seats. The original owner had racing seats in the car, which he wanted to keep for his '94 Firebird. So he took the Firebird seats out so I'd have something to sit in and drive it haha. What can I say? I bought the car for $300. The 4th Gen seats at the junk yard are cloth and have red color in the middle with a red/black scheme.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

Smart man goes with firebird seats. I have a 97 firebird as well and can say the bird seats are by far way more comfortable and supporting then my camaro seats.

To run your lt1 just use a 4th gen complete harness, they are pretty well thought out and should work well on a 3rd gen.

TurtleTamer

iTrader: (1)

Well the seats it's got are in rough shape. wouldn't mind some cloth ones too for the summer time.

I have heard that the b body harness is a good one to use since it's a little longer. Doesn't really matter to me, I just want it to work. I can legthen or shorten or whatever to my liking.

TurtleTamer

iTrader: (1)

She's home!

TurtleTamer

iTrader: (1)

Looking a bit like an engine:



It's sure in nasty shape. Cyl 6 exh port is so crudded up with carbon and oil! I'm really interested to see what's going on in the bottom end.

Chad85T/A

iTrader: (1)

*

codyscamaroz28

Post pics and also what it looks like under the valve covers, i would like to see if there's any sludge build up.

TurtleTamer

iTrader: (1)

I might do this tomorrow. I got the intake off today and was surprised at how "clean" the valley was. There was some sludge, but for an engine of this mileage and doubtful years of use/abuse, I expected worse.

Turning the crank, there's some bottom-end "click." Maybe it had some rod knock but I hope it didn't spin one.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

here was the bottomend of my lt1 when it was pulled from the donor z28 at 121xxx miles.

TurtleTamer

iTrader: (1)

Nice. Looks pretty clean. Does that big end have a lot of axial play or is it the angle of the photos?

Here's the seats I bought. The Camaro is being driven by a friend of mine. I loaned it to him while I was on deployment and have let him keep using it. He should be coming by tomorrow so we can install them.



On a different note, an awesome deal popped up on a T56 and clutch/flywheel a few hours away from me but I can't afford it without going into debt. Totally sucks.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=TurtleTamer;5674815]Nice. Looks pretty clean. Does that big end have a lot of axial play or is it the angle of the photos?

probably an illusion motor makes no noise.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

There is no slight rod knock without a spun bearing. A click while turning it by hand could be any number of things, not necessarily bad

TurtleTamer

iTrader: (1)

I'm glad you chimed in Mr. pocket. I may need to purchase some connectors from you at some point if you've got them. One of the o2's is in rough shape and the MAF one seems to have been snipped or I just haven't identified it. I've got a lot of work ahead either way on this harness.

TurtleTamer

iTrader: (1)

Well, this don't look too good...



You guys think I should reuse this piston?



These were #6, the one with all the crud on the exhaust valve. Also, #1 had standing oil in it, and #7 has some nicks and such from foreign object damage.

So, with all that being said, it was fun to see how this engine failed, now what would be the best way to bring it back to life?

It had no spun bearings and as far as I can tell, the mains are alright too but I won't know until I get a puller for the hub and then pull the crank. I was thinking I'd take the crank to the machine shop to see if it's salvageable, and maybe the rods. Not sure if I want to reuse them or not. That way they can tell me if I need oversized bearings, then I can order the rebuild kit with the bearings a need and oversized pistons so I can take them along with the block in to get bored and honed to match the new pistons. The cyl walls aren't in the best shape so it'll need boring, but I don't think they're unsalvageable. Or should I just take the block and crank in at the same time? I would rather wait until I get pistons to take the block in so it can be properly sized to them. But I don't want to buy pistons until I know what size bearings to get because I don't know yet if I'll get a rebuild kit w/pistons or order them separately.

Chad85T/A

iTrader: (1)

I would take the block and crank at the same time. They should be able to tell you how much boring it should need, then order your pistons after the block is throughly checked. No need in ordering pistons first in case there is something wrong with the block.

TurtleTamer

iTrader: (1)

This makes total sense. I guess with such a common engine such as sbc (even gen II, so much is the same) one can safely order pistons and have machine work done without having them together to be matched. In the other area I'm active in (3rd gen eclipses) this is not the case with non-stock-sized pistons. People have had a lot of bad luck with machine shops doing the work and then having the piston-wall clearances way off.

If the crank or block turn out to be unsalvageable, there is an alunimum-headed LT1 on CL nearby that is basically a long block w/intake for $200, which is about my max budget for alum heads anyway. I went the junk yard route since the engine there would have all the brackets and sensors and all that jazz.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

If there isnt anything obviously wrong with the $200 long block, then Id get that and not spend a dime on the destroyed one you're picturing. All the B-body stuff will move over to make it complete

TurtleTamer

iTrader: (1)

Eh, it's just as much of a crap-shoot. What's holding me back from just pulling the trigger on the second engine is space. I'm doing this all on my porch since I'm in an apartment complex. Last time I had two engines, a transaxle, and engine stand and hoist on there along with a box of scrap parts. There was NO room, and now I have a stack of wheels out there too since my girlfriend moved in and I had to take them out to make closet space.

I think the deciding factor will be the crank endplay. I've still got the main caps on, and if it even hints at too much play I'll assume the crank is ruined and scrap the whole mess in favor of another motor. As it stands, the cyl walls actually don't look bad and they're getting bored anyway. No doubt a honing would be insufficient. But with a good crank and a salvageable block, I'll press on with this one.

I'm super-curious how the damage happened. Something got in there, but what? I'll need to take a better look at the head gaskets and basically spend some more time inspecting when I get back from this short underway. Should be Friday or Saturday.

TurtleTamer

iTrader: (1)

Lying awake, thinking about this on the ship last night, I think what I'll do is, as described before, check the crank thrust endplay and then (if it checks out) take that block, crank, and con rods to the machine shop. Since I'll have room, I can ****** up the other engine, put it on the stand, salvage the heads off of it and wait for word on the parts at the machine shop as to whether or not I can use them. If not, I'll proceed with prepping the new block to go to the machine shop.

TurtleTamer

iTrader: (1)

Alright, so, now I have two LT1s. What else? Haha. I got home from the ship last night for the first time in a week and though I was very tired, I'd taken my "How To" books (what my machine shop guy calls the "Comic Books") and I was too antsy not to work on it. I got the crank pulled, though the hub was stuck so bad I broke a puller bolt on it so I left it along with the timing cover on it. Pulled the cam, freeze-out plugs and knock sensors plus a few misc bolts and such, and this morning took the crank, block, and rods (pistons still attached) to the machine shop. Visual inspection by them looks promising, and it's getting handed over to "*****" the GM small block guru.

Then, since I have the porch space, I picked up the other aluminum-headed long-block from Craigslist for $190. Looks to be a 92-93 so it'll have forged rods, a different timing cover and maybe a couple other little differences. I let the machine shop guy know that if anything at all didn't check out, to call me so I could grab something off the other engine and bring it on in.

Next up is to get that motor out of the girlfriend's Mariner and get it on the stand.

Disassembled the old iron heads and took the cores out to the dumpster for the scrap metal scavengers to find.

Strick1

I'm in the middle of what you are doing. As far as the engine harness goes, if you want A/C and other things to work, I found that you have to marry the 3rd gen harness to the 4th gen harness. To me that means tracing wires from the ECM. I got both Helms manuals from each car (the donor, 95 caprice, and my 83 camaro)and now it's just accounting for each wire. This is the most tedious part of the whole engine swap for me. After Christmas, I'll get back to working on it. BTW, thanks for your service.

TurtleTamer

iTrader: (1)

Yup Strick I have followed your thread. Same engine here, '95 Caprice. Aren't you even replacing the same LO3?

Anyway, I really don't mind the wiring. I'm an electrician in the Navy but I really try just to learn everything I can. Turning wrenches is nothing new. I'm practicing welding at home and on the ship, and I was going to get into auto painting, but instead kind of happened into this swap. Wanted to do it for a while now but had other things going on.

All in all it's eerily similar to my last motor swap, taking the engine out of a big, slow sedan and putting it into a smaller lighter car after some work to it. For that one I did a complete rewiring of the engine bay. Really I look forward to this one because I love routing the wires exactly like I want, all clean and neat. May have to make a donation to pocket though for putting out the guiding info haha.

Also, I've been mulling over this opti issue. For one, I don't want to use the one from the junk yard. It MIGHT work, being as the engine failure was traced to a mechanical issue, not an ignition one. It's also vented which makes it slightly less likely to just be bad. The connection looked great but I haven't opened it. What I DID find on Craigslist was an MSD billet opti w/ MSD coil for $300, but it's for the earlier 92-93 LT1. Not much of an issue if I swap all the stuff from the long block over, but still not sure what I want to do about this. I don't have $300 lying around right now to go pick it up, even if I talk him down to less. Not while I've got a bottom end at the machine shop and no rebuild parts to speak of.

The plan is, as of now, to wait on word from the machine shop, order bottom end parts, clean all the misc parts that didn't go, and eventually assemble the bottom end. In the meantime, in the downtime, I need to get the heads off the long block and start disassembly then porting. For that I'll need another bit or three and I'm going to invest in a decent grinder. Using a drill motor was fine last time but those heads were less picky and it took forever. Once the bottom end is complete, and the heads are machined and ported (oh and the intake too) I hope to have reached a decision on cam selection. Once the engine is complete and I accumulate the necessary drivetrain parts, it'll be getting close to time to pull the motor and harness out of the car and start working on the harness. Once it's all in, I've got to make an exhaust. Right now all I have is a set of rusty headers and a brand new 3" cat. Beyond that I have no idea what route I want to take with that. I'll FAR exceed my original budget but I want to do this right. The end goal is 400rwhp/tq NA (not planning to boost ever), but I'll be happy with a little less since this is my first Chevy build and I'm doing it as inexpensively as possible. Plus, it'll only be a 355.

Strick1

I pulled a 305 out of my Camaro with a 5 speed. The Caprice had a 4L60E tranny. If your desire is to find 400 RW horsepower, that is easy. My route will be via the stroker route (383) with a GM hot cam. This cam is a good compromise. Sure there are other cams with much more potential, but they are not as street worthy. I'm staying with the opti as the one in my 92 Vette works fine, especially after I vented it. I'm going to try out the opti from SAC (one of the venders on the corvette forum) for a low price. Summit has a good bottom end rotating assembly built for our LTx motors at a reasonable price. Don't forget to have your machinist make sure the block is square and your heads are flat. The other issue you have to be knowledgable about is balance. LT motors are externally balance from the factory. BUT you can buy rotating assemblies that are internally balanced which the one from Summit is. This makes it easier to buy and install the flywheel and clutch that are neutrally balanced. All this talk is getting me itchy to get back to work on it.

TurtleTamer

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I was going to talk to "*****" about balancing the crank. I also thought of stroking the motor, since rotating kits complete with pistons, rods, gaskets etc only run a few hundred more than a standard rebuild kit. For some reason though I just want to stay with the stock stroke, though it's only about 98% set-in-stone. Whatever I hear back from them regarding what parts they need or don't need will be the deciding factor. Say, they say the crank is bad. I pull the one from the long block and it looks rough too...then it's an easy decision--stroke. I don't think that'll happen though. As far as making sure the parts are good, I've got 100% faith in my current machine shop. They work on everything--domestic, import, early model, late model, but they love to mess around with Chevy small blocks. I've been to them a few times and they always come through. They're cheap, too.

TurtleTamer

iTrader: (1)

Called ***** today, and it looks like a "Go" on everything I brought him. He's got some more going-over to do on the block, but the crank and rods are good. He also tells me he can usually get wicked deals on chevy internals, so we got a plan going for what we want to do as far as balancing, replacing rod bolts, boring, and so on.

Aldo got LT1 #2 up on the stand today, so I'll be working tomorrow on harvesting the heads and getting them stripped down. They also got another B-body at the yard with an LT1 so I'll head up there and see if they have any knick nacks I'll be interested in.

TurtleTamer

iTrader: (1)

Suhweeeet! Success at the junk yard today. I got some stuff I needed: temp sensor for the water pump, IAT, MAF, TPS (though I have one laying around somewhere), throttle cable bracket and some pigtails. Poor engine had suffered a blown head gasket.

Going later to pick up a good find. A guy on Craigslist had horded some LT1 parts and never installed them. GM847 cam, matching beehives, pushrods (which I don't know if I'll be able to use yet), misc gaskets, 4.10 ring and pinion, an OBD2 PCU (not sure if I could even use it for anything but I can sure ebay it), guide plates and some other odds and ends. All for cheap. I'd only buy some of it but he only wants $50 more for all.

Now I know the 847 can be a controversial cam due to its peaky numbers and weak low-end, and from research I've gathered that it's def not a good choice for stock heads and since it needs to rev high, bottom end needs some work too. However this one is an awesome deal, convenient timing and I think it will suit my needs very well.

Strick1

Half of these projects is collecting parts. It took me 2 years to collect all the parts necessary to rebuild my Vette. And another 6 months to find most of the parts for the Camaro restoration. Oh, and did I talk about tools? The big brown truck knows it way to my house.

TurtleTamer

iTrader: (1)

Brother, you speak the truth! Not only the brown truck but the white one with purple and green letters and another one with white and red letters. I live in an apartment complex so if I'm not there, they deliver to the office. The ladies up there now know to just leave the boxes where they sit because they're heavy, and I'll be running in just before closing time when I get off work to grab 'em up.

Just got back from quite a long drive out to the dude's house. Picked up my cam and all the other stuff I mentioned before for $350. Might have forgetten to mention the screw-in studs though. Pretty excited. All I need now is lifters, rockers, and pushrods if these ones here don't fit. Well, all I need as far as valvetrain anyway unless I decide to spring for some lightweight valves, but being as though I'm keeping stock size I probably won't. This was kind of getting ahead of myself being as though I've got the bottom end sitting at the machine shop, but I had to jump on the deal.

TurtleTamer

iTrader: (1)

Pics to come later, as long as I get off work in time for daylight. Got the short block out of the girlfriend's Mariner and onto the stand last..thursday I believe, adn yesterday I finally got around to getting the heads off and stripped. I'm sure glad I didn't decide to buy this engine and throw her on in! NO rocker arms or pushrods and some water had gotten in cyl's 6 and 8 so they're rusted to hell. All in all though, appears much cleaner than the G-body one but I don't have the pan off or anything. Got my electric die grinder ordered, but it's not variable speed so a trip to Home Depot yesterday and $13 later, I've got the parts to make it so. I'll post picks of that after I build it. Also ordered a flywheel and balancer since my balancer was waiting to come apart. With these items, I can bring them to the machine shop to balance my rotating assembly. Speaking of which, ***** called me today and said he could get me a master kit minus cam and lifters with Clevite bearings and such for around the price of an ebay off-brand one. Pretty happy there. Looks like the bore will be .030 over. Since the long block was missing some valvetrain components, and the intake had been off at some point, I hoped to strike gold on an aftermarket cam but it was a regular stock f-body one. Guess I can try to get $50 or so for it from someone with an LO3.

TurtleTamer

iTrader: (1)

Haha, home-made speed adjust. Just tested it on a lamp.