As the tried and true Metallica song "Fuel" is pounding through my speakers here at work I am facing a bit of a decision, and I would like to hear what you all think about it. I have owned my 1979 Camaro for the past 9 years and during that time have made it into quite a potent muscle car. I have also owned (in the past 12 years now) a couple of nice 1989 Camaros, one wicked IROC, and one nearly stock 305 RS. I rescently aquired a 1984 Z28 (no engine and trans is removed) which prompted me to register on this site. I am going to be getting a little bit of cash I can use on the cars and I need some opinions on which way I should go. The original plan was to put the drivetrain from the '79 into the '84, do a few improvements and use the '84 as my all around "beater" hot rod while I do my frame-off type resto-mod on the '79 (a long time dream). The only drawback here is the '84 would have to be "smogged" and I am not entirely comfortable with finding someone to do that. On the other hand, I could put a few hundred into the '79 to make it really rock, and begin the actual project I have in mind for the '84. I am only going to have about 2k to spend so completing either car can't happen on my tight budget for now. The '79 might take about 500 and I figure the '84 would need about 1300. This is only a temporary build for either car while the other undergoes major work. The biggest question I face is which one to drive?

I would personally go with the second gen if it is your dream ride! You are the only one that should make the decision....

Doesn't your 79 also have to be smogged? Which car has the most creature comforts improved looks? Maybe because I'm old, but I would rather drive a car that looks and rides well than one that can blow everyone's doors off but looks like shiate. Especially if you have one in the garage that will handle the muscle issue. As stated before, purely a personal decision, but keep us in the loop with what you do.

To answer the big question, yes the '79 has to be smogged also. However I am in one of those odd counties in CA that only require one initial smog at the registration of a vehicle and my '79 did pass smog with it's original equipment back when I first registered it in 2001. It has long since lost the choke-pipes. The '84 has a salvage title on it and will reguire a smog and brake check when I go to register it, but that will be the one and only time I ever have to smog it. Currently the '79 runs and drives just fine, but there are a few things I want to do if I am going to continue driving it. Or I can put the drivetrain in the '84 and begin a full redo for the '79. The '84 came to me as a shell, trans is out but accounted for, and I have NOTHING from the original 305.

Plans for the '79 are a LS1 from a Corvette, and a 4L60E from a 4th gen F-body, aftermarket suspension, chassis and brake, and a complete overhaul of the body and interior. Basically I want it to look like a stock '79 or '80 Z28 with modern mechanics, and use it for a driving car.

Plans for the '84 are a LT1 converted to a LT4, and a 700R4 (both I have in the shop), aftermarket suspension, chassis and brake, while refreshing the interior and body. However this car is going to be built significantly stronger and probably supercharged and used for cruise nights and drag racing.

Once they are both completed they will both pass even an annual smog, so ultimately that isn't much of a concern. I'm leaning heavily towards putting the drivetrain in the Third Gen (which is why I got it), and beginning the full project on the '79 since it has served it's time as the "beater" hot rod, and well deserves the attention. I just wanted to run it by you guys and get an outsider's opinion, it can be difficult running a one man operation and a fresh set of eyes are always helpful.

I think I'd drive the 79 if that's what you really want! Also wanted to put this in there.. if you're thinking about doing an LT1->LT4 swap, most people find it wasn't worth the money after they did it.. especially considering the parts are no longer available from GM. Ported LT1 heads/intake work just fine, or aftermarket LT4 style parts will too. I speak from experience having owned two LT1 cars.

That is actually the first feedback I have heard on the LT4, and sadly dissapointing. True the kit is no longer available from GM, but Edelbrock either bought the rights or plans because they are selling the LT4 kit now. I am set on using the LT1 engine, because I would like to use the one I have in my garage, but I have not built one before. I have built MANY fast carbed 350s, some TPI 350s and even a few LS1s (which I will be putting in the '79), but never before an LT1. My wife has a 1994 Formula, so i will have two to do. What would you suggest as a build for around 400 hp with daily driver reliability? I have heard a lot that the LT4 "hot cam" is a real hot ticket, what do you think?

the LT4 hotcam is a joke, it's a puny little thing 218/224 i think. barely lopes. I ran a 224/230 .600/.600 108LSA in my LT1 car and it pulled decent but definitely needed more cam!!

If smog isn't a problem then look into the big XFI grinds by comp cams, they're good prices and great power. something in the 230s/240s @.050 duration wise, some ported stocker heads and a ported intake (all supporting parts as well of course) and it's a solid 420 rwhp.

that 224/230 was a grind from a guy called Bret Bauer, supposedly an LT1 camshaft guru. I liked it, just wasn't big enough for me. A decent sized cam from him or one of those XFI grinds in the 230s, ported stock LT1 heads and a ported intake will net you your 400 rwhp if it's done correctly. Tuned nicely and you'll have a sweet daily driver.

edit: check my sig and you can hear the idle from the 224/230 in my old maro

Kool man, thanks for the info. I will check around with some of my sources and see what kind of cams I can come up with. Any contact info on that guy that did your cam? if you don't want to post it a PM would be great too, I would like to pick his brain a bit. So the stock heads and intake are solid units then? Seems like most places talk about just doing some port work on those units over buying aftermarket (certanly is cheeper). Do you know if MSD, or anyone for that matter still make a distributor delete ignition conversion kit for the LT1? I thought I found them a few years ago from MSD but no luck lately.

For those who might be curious I have decided to keep driving the '79 and do a buildup on the '84 Z28. Thank you for the input and I hope you guys don't mind rolling with a burly 2nd gen a little.

Just in case anyone is still checking in on this, I want to add one final update to this post. My car has decided for me what I will be doing. I put the '79 on the road this weekend with a couple of minor repairs. I made it through an entire 200+ mile drive, got all the way home and as I was trying to put my car back in the shop for the night, the rear-end blew out on me. Naturally the '79 is now out of comission. Thankfuly it happened at home and I could still get it into the garage. So now instead of spending the money and time on fixing the rear end on that car again, I will be going ahead with a drivetrain swap to the '84 Z28. Looks like I will be driving the third gen this spring after all.

His contact info was bret@bauer-racing.com I think. The stock stuff is solid on an LT1, just needs port work. Advanced Induction and Lloyd Elliot are two well known names. Good luck with the '84, hope to see it at a meet!

Ok, so I have yet another direction for my projects as most of us do when faced with more than one vehicle. I have been spending some time in the past few weeks looking this '84 Z28 over and comparing it to the damage to repair on the '79. Unfortunately on this build I have a tight budget to follow and looking at the extent of what I have to do to even get the '84 to the point where my '79 is would go a ways out of my budget. So here is what's planned:

For the '79 Camaro I am going to rebuild the rear-end and replace the 3.08 gears with a 3.73 set. Also I am going to replace the radiator with an aluminum unit and electric fan, and get the heater working finally.

The '84 Z28 is going to receive a ground up build. I'm still not 100% on the powerplant, maybe the LT1, or maybe an aftermarket injection system on a classic 350. I am thinking heavily on swapping over to a manual transmission, but not sure weather to use a t-5 or a t-56. I want to graft in a rear end and front brakes from an LS1 car, and use all aftermarket suspension upgrades. The interior will be nearly stock with late 4th gen seats, autometer guages, and a complete painless rewire. The exterior I want to keep purely stock 1984 Z28 in either black or a gunmetal gray. Not sure about the wheels either, but I will probably use a set of 16" torque thrusts since I already have a pair of 16x7's.

I will use this thread to post pics and keep you all up to date........

forget the 84 and just fix the 79.

That's the point for now. I'm using this bit of cash I've got to get the '79 fixed and running again. That way I've got one of them running and driving for a while (you can ask anyone who has seen the '79 in person, it is one of those cars that just screams BAD***). In the fall I am set to get a descent raise at work that should net me some cash for progress on my cars. I want to attempt the ground up style build on the '84 once I have a more reliable cash flow since it will take more cash to get going. This should give me some good practice before I attempt the much more complicated build of the '79, as well as giving me a very nice sample of a third gen for my "one from every generation" collection. There is no way in heaven or hell I will ever part with either of these cars.

Here is some progress so far:

Pulling her from her resting place.











we got a long way to go.

P.S. that's me on the trailer just in case you were wondering.

Back in my shop a few days later and cleaned up quite a bit. Same pics as in my other post, sorry guys I don't have many others yet.

I havn't needed to use this loop-hole in the Smog laws for a couple years but hopefully it's still a viable option.

If you live in one of the outlying rural 'exempt' areas there is a way around the smog certificate. What I've always done is go down to register the car for a new title under my name and at the same time, have the DMV person put the car under a 'non-op' status. Sometimes the person behind the desk will argue that they can't issue you a new title like that, but I've always received one in the mail anyway. Once you receive the actual new title, THEN and ONLY then, go down and get it taken off of non-op. This bypasses the manditory initial smog exam. I've done this several times and have three vehicles currently....well, I'm just not going to tell.

Unless something's changed, I'm the slim shady....... Nitro-Nicky

Here is my progress on the AC elimination on the heater box. I forgot to take before pics, but we all know how these things look. Here it is after cutting out the AC section, laying the first layer of fiberglass, and roughly trimming to shape.





You can see to the side where I trimmed out the mounting area for the fan resistor, this will be added in once the fiberglass is thick enough to be cut.

I have heard that somewhere before I think. I might go give it a shot, if nothing else I will just put it back on non-op. Thanks man.

I need a hookup for smog as well. I cant title it in my state until it passes. Just need a one time deal. Oh and by the way my Cat. conv. was on fire today. Don't believe me ask rough.

I have been working on finding someone who will do "smogs" for cash deals, and have a few hopefuls. I don't think it will be cheap, but I will let those Nor-Cal members who are interested know what I find.

Just an update for those curious, sorry no new pics yet I've had no time for the ladies. Thanks to a very small woman in an oversized Ford Super Duty deciding she didn't like the way my body panels looked on my Ranger, I now have considerable work to do on it before I can devote much to the cars. Unfortunately for now that just means repairing the basic problem with the '79 so I have a way to transport myself while I work on the truck. No new gears or exhaust for me this time. On the good side of things though I have had many conversations with my wife about the '84 Z28, and she has been encouraging me to do a LS1/T-56 transplant since that car is destined to be a daily driver. Sure am glad I put a ring on her finger. So an LS1/T-56 swap it is (gotta keep mamma happy right?).

Thanks for following along my madness, and I will post some new pics as soon as I get some more work going.

Good luck w/ that, the car is probably a Test Only car anyway.

my car is a test only, how does the state decide that?

I used to get Test-Only EVERY time smog came up.

I have been test only for as long as I have had my gta, 4 tests now, 9 years.

Tell me about it.

2002, 2004, 2006. ..all TO.. .all B.S.

No smog in 2008 though!

So, if it is a "test only" wouldn't that mean there is no visual? I'm no smog tech (unfortunately), but that sounds like a good thing. If I can get an LS1 tuned and running sweet, and all they're going to do is hook up the sniffer to see what she blows, it should pass no problem then right? I could even make some bolt-in sections in the exhaust where I could bolt in a pair of new cats for the test, and remove them immediately following, if it would help pass. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just thinking out loud (er, on thread....).

absolutely incorrect. Test only means they only do the smog tests no repair work, and they cannot give out repair information. So they will still perform the completle smog test which you have to pass 3 parts. the emissions, the functional, and the visual. if you want to put a ls1 in you have to go to the referee and they will tell you what you have to do before you do it so you can do it once and do it right.

Damn, that sucks. i didn't even think about it like that, that really sucks. Thank you for the heads up! Know any good knowledgeable refs around? I think I would really like to keep this one smog legal, including all of the mods.

A little late here, but I thought I should add something. Seriously, avoid the hassle... you mentioned you were in a good county. Take advantage of it. A LS1 burns super clean with the dual pup cats, and as long as it passes the sniffer, shops should be fine with it, as it all boils down to emissions. Don't forget to do a pretest first.

Truthfully, my mentality is more like: find someone who will "pass" it, pay them a couple hundred for the privelige, and forget the whole thing. My only hang up here is with Ca going the direction it's going, soon enough the entire state will be annual smog. I just want to avoid the hassle and keep the car passing. But as you said, the LS1 burns nicely as it is, so I may just do what I need to do to get it to blow the good numbers and get one of my local shops to just run it on the machine.

Spent an afternoon stripping out the interior.

Pile of parts


Positioned for complete dis-assembly:


At least the floors are in good shape:





No, the rust colored spot is not rust, it is some sort of adhesive that melted and pooled at the bottom of the trunk.

Ok, for anyone interested in following my build on this '84 Z28 I have started a fresh thread in the history/restoration forum.

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/hi...ground-up.html

Since my path is decided with the two cars, I'm pretty much done here. I'll let this thread die now.