nothing

and you two clowns take racing too imaginary. Easier and cheaper to say you're fast than prove it right? Why didn't I think about that!?!? So remember, when you're passing out turdbirds baseball caps and stickers, that some one somewhere is in a lane.

least you can copy paste

well if you were under the gm union contract you would make 73.00 per hour, which includes your benefits.
if you worked for honda usa you would make 37 including benefits.
that is 500,000 people costing the big 3 73 dollars an hour at 40 hours a week that is $1,460,000,000 a week that they must generate. now you figure out why they are losing their butts. and if an exec makes 20,000,000 a year, there are less than 20 of them, make 1/73rd in a year than the uaw gets in a week. and not many make that much.
so lets quit blaming 20 people for the cash flow problems.
we all work on our cars. is anyone happy with the quality of the way they were put together?
now ask the little old lady down the street how her honda is doing and she will tell you she has owned it for 10 year and not one problem.
that is why pontiac, and their parent gm, and chrysler, and ford, are in the toilet.
when i was a kid there used to be a strike every 3 years. one of the big 3 would be shut down and there would be fights on the streets and what every that one settled for the other 2 would follow. soon they decided to back end everything and give the unions what it wanted. that ws great when they had 70% of the market and 23 workers for every retiree, but not now. those 500,000 are supporting a lot more workers - like every worker support more than 4 retired worker. car prices going up and quality not any better.
now you figure out what would happen to car prices and market share if it only cost 37 an hour to make a car. that 1.45 billion would go do to 775 millon and everyone would work.
but that will not happen.
the uaw wants its union dues so they will kill the American car industry and lose their membership too.

I can say im fast, I can post any quarter mile number and say im fast and there can and always will be a jackass that explains why my time is not fast. If my car feels fast to me, I can say it is, I dont have to drag race it first.
just because I havnt decided to go the easy route and carb it, I am using this experience to learn fuel injection and tune it myself first hand, and that takes time. and when the proper time comes, i will go to the track and I will post my lousy times, then you can still tell me how much better you are then me because your car is so much faster and cheaper or whatever, but in the end, i still have my friends, i am still proud of what I have accomplished with this project, and I can drive my car whenever I want for fun, no towing required here, - even in the rain

long as you're happy Travis

DELETED TO PLEASE STRIKER911.

U kids need to take your drama to the track, or shut the hellll up! Guy's are acting like a couple of jack offs. Better yet, start a soap opera thread.

sorry striker911, i deleted it, i should have known better then to bicker.

Unfortunately, this is probably just the first hat to fall with the "Big 3". Whether due to government regulations, unions, corporate blindness and/or greed, the American automakers of the mid 70's and early 80's failed to deliver on a quality product for many years and allowed many "baby boomers" to switch to imports at the time. Look at how many new car brands we have since the 70's, it's only natural that the import salesman have "gotten their foot in the door" with a cheaper, better quality product back then. The import companies continued to improve quality where the US car makers kept making crap until the early 80's before they started turning it around. My first car, a 1973 Monte Carlo, got just 12 miles to the gallon and when gas got to almost $2 a gallon, I was making $1.95 an hour.I remember having to work over 15 hours just to fill the tank to go only 200 miles per tank! A Datsun B210 at 25 miles to the gallon was looking real nice back then, many people switched, and the rest is history. The big three have been playing catch-up ever since, Chrysler even had to sell to Daimer. Now it's the days of corporate bail-out money that won't fix the problem, it will just make a few rich and prolong the enivitable. I'm sad to see Pontiac go, and unfortunately, I don't think it will be the last. I think the US cars are at least as high a quality as anything out there now, but they lost their following with that "junk run" of the mid 70's to early 80's. Just my opinion....

Your whole point was well stated. It is indeed sad. I've put more money in repairs to my 92 Camaro than my 97 4Runner.

Some good input in here. ..

For those of you that are incapable of adding to this topic, do not post in here again.

i give up im moving to texas home of the last real americans

i hope ww III happens without the nukes so we can say f off to japan and chineese CRAP cars to leaded toys

good by pontiac, good by america , welcome communists and lame people taking over our country.

Well I didn't want to get into this but here's my 2cents. I will apologize in advance, if my opinion gets anyone hot under the collar. Conspiracies theories Is all I have, but I promise to make good points.

First off, the main rule in any business is to make money. We all know they did that. Once they made the money, it was not about the quality so much anymore, as to just buying everyone else out.

Funny about the gas millage thing. The 1992 Metro got 58 mpg. Guess what the 07 Yaris gets? 40. We all know where Geo went right? Into the hands of GM, where they pulled the plug on the 3 cylinder for the 4. Where did the metro go? Its gone. So they bought the compaction, then destroyed them to keep a leg up. Right?

They did the same thing that wal-mart has been doing. Why do people get mad that wal-mart comes in their town, & runs everyone that makes anything with pride, out of business? They take over then do whatever they want. Dont they? How many times do we go to walmart, & see 20 or more people returning stuff?

I have heard the horror stories about people taking cars in to get fixed, and being raped like no other. The point here is that their is only so much we are willing to pay out. They threat us like pupets, & we let them. Heck we even pay for them ripping us off! Dont we? What is the bail out? Paying for them ripping us off. They rip us when we buy, & when we dont buy.

Now they have even got a lot of us thinking that quality is back. How can you even think that quality is back? Cut as much as you can on anything, and see the quality go. So the "quality u see" is only more bs they are making you think. Its worked this long. Sorry so long, but guys, I will still not buy new, not from the "big 3".

Here is my source on the Mpg. Made me sick.
http://editorial.autos.msn.com/artic...umentid=435714

Soap box time - Here's a little bit of fact that many people may not know or think about...there are many industries out there in the good ole USA that our government will not allow to fail or be owned by foriegn entities due to National Security. If a product is built in the USA that is needed for the US way of life, the Government will not allow it to fail and become "hostage" to a foriegn competeing product, no matter what it costs us. I don't think the auto business is one of those businesses quite yet, but at least two of the "big three" auto manufacturers are. GM and Ford's National Security contracts are instumental to our National Security and they will never be allowed to fail completely. Government take-over?---maybe, but unlikely due to our "Capitalist" system. Ever wonder why the oil industry buys foreign oil rather than to use our own? Most think it's cost, but the main underlying reason is actually because we have to have those reserves for the military to protect our National Security. GM, Boeing, GE, IBM, Rockwell and many others are involved deeply in our National Security and are not going anywhere no matter what, US Government guaranteed. Could you imagine buying all of our tanks, fighter jets, or Nukes from Russia or North Korea instead of building our own? Never happen. So to the little guy (that's us).... pay up! ...Just my over-zealous opinion...

It might be too little, too late. Chevrolet (GM) has been hemming & hawwing about the 5th gen Camaro, while they make Cobalts, Saturns, & Hummers.
And lets not forget the revised FWD Impalas & Malibus. (what a name ripoff)

Dodge & Ford have been selling Challengers, Chargers, & Mustangs like hotcakes. People have been waiting for the new Camaro, & it never comes, so they say "lets just get a Mustang".

daehkcidasieissej

.....JohnnyT. I'm pondering what you've said, but I don't think I'll be able to sleep tonight

First big mistake they made was not delivering as promised.

second was getting rid of the Camaro in the first place. Lost way to much buyers. What where they thinking?

Another little article that skims the end of an era with a time line & pictures. ..

http://autos.aol.com/?adl=34525&icid...%3Fadl%3D34525

LOL! Sorry!

Here's a nice quote for ya that says a lot in a little, haha.

This always sparks debate between Fbody lovers. ..

A notch above a Chevy?!?!?!?! Then why is their resale typically lower? Truth be known (but don't tell).....I found my Z28 while looking for a GTA... :P

Late chimer here but couldn't have said it better myself. To go along with the wages per hour thing, what would you expect someone to make that was an inspector in charge of say... your houses footings? Or making sure the land your home is built on is strong enough? Or someone testing concrete in a skyrise or bridge on a highway? $20? $25? More? Don't know what it is like in the US, but here - the scarey answer is 10-15 an hour. All that responsibility, for that wage. Crazy no? I left that field 10 years ago, and they STILL only make that wage. I know cost of living has gone way higher since then thats for sure. Just wanted to add my story to the mix.

As for pontiac, I was realy saddened by the news. I've always preferred the pontiac model over the chev version. Firebird over Camaro, Sunfire over Cavalier, etc etc.

Yeah, I left out the line that followed.

Flashy styling along with packing in as many different options was definitely what always set the Pontiac Fbody's apart in my eyes.

The notch above comment was more so in the pony/muscle car era of the late 60's I think, when they were unique and at their peak.

That was a good look back in time. Thanks for the post Del

I agree
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