Quote: Originally posted by 1bad406 yeah good luck getting your doors to close back after a few more launches like that with no sfc's or roll cage.. First folks said I'd never be able to hook hard enough to yank a wheel off the ground with stock suspension now everyone tells me I'm going to twist the car up. Only one way to find out and prove/disprove that common thought. Just wait till I get the car running the times I think its capable of and put a bigger tire under it ...remember that quote it could come back to haunt me when I twist my "delicate" subframe

Well this thread has been around enough I might as well contribute with my own pic.

You need good traction. If the wheels are spinning, it won't pull the front up.

Weight transfer. A nose heavy car needs a lot of work to pull the front wheels. The more weight that can be moved back, the better.

Suspension geometry: The torque arm is like a single ladder bar. It has a fixed point for the instant center. By moving that point higher or lower, you can shift where the car will lift weight. The LCA act like the bottom bars on a 4 link system. You really need to see something like 4 link setup software to see where the best settings should be. My ladder bar settings were set very close to 100% anti-squat so my front end didn't come up much but my back end also didn't drop down. I've played with my ladder bar settings so next spring I should be able to pull the wheels at bit higher to help with weight transfer. My car is very nose heavy.

High stall converter with a transbrake or a high rpm clutch drop helps because of the instant shock to the driveline. That's also providing everything mentioned above is good.

Pulling the wheels isn't as easy as it looks. There's a lot of things that need to be just right. A low hp, 13 second car can pull the wheels a foot into the air if there's enough weight moved back and there's good traction.

I only say it because I've seen it happen. I'm not just pulling it out of the air because thats what I think. The F-body's chassis is weak unless beefed up with sfc's or a cage. They twist real easy when you start launching hard with a t-brake or a hard hitting clutch...

yup.....my car has cracks in the roof corners now and i HAVE subrames AND an 8 point roll bar

good deal man......my picture appears to be pulling the front wheels, AND the rear seems to be raising....the SSM bars must be located pretty well dead center on the lift point.

i have the SSM bars on my car/rear also so how do you adjust them or help the car not to squat and lift the rear for better traction? i have the stock front suspension and spohn panhard and control arms in the rear also with 50/50 shocks. i still think that i ned a higher stall to help the car but thats a hole another topic.

That doesn't mean much. Many people ask what's the best hole to put the ladder bars in thinking that level with the ground is neutral. There's a lot of factors determining what hole is neutral. It depends on wheel base, height of the tires/axle, height of the bars, center of gravity and engine centerline.

I had to edit your last post. You don't need to quote an entire message for a simple reply.

what doesnt mean much? the fact that the entire car lifts evenly, and launches well?

ya why would that be any indicator of suspension setup

Putting them "dead center" doesn't mean much. Without knowing where the antisquat line is in the car, putting them in any hole is a guess and dead center doesn't always mean it's on the neutral line.

Like I said, people want to know what the best hole is to put ladder bars in. Level to the ground isn't a good answer and neither is "in the middle hole". Same as having LCA relocation brackets. Normally you want the LCA level with the ground but that doesn't mean it's in the best location.

i never said it was, and i don't have ladder bars

i have the SSM lift bar setup, which works fantastic and judging by the cars launch characteristics its exactly where it should be.

as far as launching and twisting goes, i should know... i have a convertible... lol.

the car will always settle back down... but you do get wear on your door hinges and latch..
if you're never putting a rollbar in, SFCs are a good idea.
if you're putting a rollbar in, you can skip the SFCs unless the bar is going to have swingout door bars... SFCs with a regular bar just adds weight.


i havent pulled the fronts on my current car yet, but i havent fully launched this car yet either... everytime ive tried and hooked (i mean EVERYtime) ive blown up the rear... ive broken the ring gear, the pinion gear, the posi, and sometimes, all of them at once! lol

now that i have the 9", a 2 step, a badass clutch, massive front weight loss, drag struts, slicks, and a few other things, i WILL have the fronts off with skinnys... i dont know if i will with fullsize tires, but i'll sure as heck try! lol.

Here's my launch, 1.27- 60ft (68' - 5" ) Rear tires,stock susp.,440"sbc,N/A, best time to date -9.23 @ 149 w/180ft. wheelstand, this year hope to dip in the mid to high 8's and no wheelies at all. (10.5" tires - N/A - NO WHEELIE BARS.).

383backinblack pm,d you.

u are going to flip your car with no wheelie bar.

Byron Dragway(Illinois) is payin 25 G's to someone who can do that at this years wheelstand contest. A gremlin has come mighty close the last couple years.

yeah, but will 25G's pay for the damage that will insue from this wheelstand? i mean, look at what happened to that cutlass last year...

Yeah, that's the million dollar question. Prestige & a trashed car or just another wheelstander. I guess if you own a gremlin the answer is pretty easy!

The car that won it at byron this year definitley need more than 25g's to rebuild. It was a nasty crash, he had a complete tube chassis that was painted with chrome allusion paint and every little nut and bolt was chrome. I know the orange gremlin your talking about and i believe he won 3 or 4 years ago but is easily in the top 3 everytime. he would have won if it wasnt for the big crash. I mean how can you not give it to him to help him fix part of his car. I will look for the video to post.

Here are som pics of the gremlin



Here are some pics of the winner



oops...


THIRDGEN!!!!

Might have an inch or 2 off the ground.

Dont matter, that car is leaving real hard. Nice pic.

Thanks, with my new disc brakes, it 60ft's around a 1.45 now leaving at 3400. Havnt tried it on 4200 yet.

ok if any of you see this, how the heck do you guys get your cars to hook that good????? ok this is my setup, 385sbc about 450-475hp, centerforce dual friction clutch, 5-speed, 9" with 3.89gears, BMR LCA's, spohn torque arm, hotchkis panhard, all adjustable, 10 point cage without doorbars, subframe connectors, 26x8.5 M/T slicks, eibach sportline drop springs, monroe sensatrac shocks and struts, 1inch rear swaybar.. i launch at 4800-5100.. the thing spins the slicks like no tomorrow.. my best 60ft. was 1.834.. the car runs runs a 12.7 @109 while missing fourth.. i'm thinking i need either stock height/rate springs or even drag springs.. also drag shocks.. and should i be launching at a lower rpm? any help to get my car to hook would be appreciated.. thanks guys

Swap the lowering springs for more of a drag spring, lakewood 70/30s if it is driving daily or if not, 90/10s. And why do you launch at such a high rpm??
It may help alittle to launch at a lower rpm.

put the suspension back to stock one peice at a time until it starts hooking?

lca relocation brackets...'nuff said.

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/su...arm-angle.html (lower control arm angle and relocation brackets (an explanation with pictures))

thanks guys, and would stock springs work?

This car has Stock springs front (6 cylinder springs) and rear. Also stock struts in the front.

Heres the newest pic of mine from the NFME event at IRP.

thank you for my new background

No problem...lol send me a pm with your email address if you want the high res uncropped version.